News CES 2018: HDR10+ added to UHD Blu-ray and Warners support

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Steve Withers, Jan 7, 2018.


    1. Steve Withers

      Steve Withers
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    2. matthewricha

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      I waited two years to get on the 4k uhd band wagon with the Oppo and Sony A1 and now another sub format.. I really hope Oppo and Sony add a firmware update for my kit. It probably won't happen for Sony but likely for oppo I suppose.
       
    3. tman

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      While this is good news, although there's very little HDR10+ content at the moment, I think this will take off pretty quickly as more companies come onboard. It makes sense, and nobody has to pay Dolby any license fees - which is what it's all about really. To give HDR10+ a push though, it wouldn't take a lot of effort to add support to 2017 or even some 2016 devices. Panasonic could probably update their 2017 UHD blu-ray players, Samsung could do a way better job and add proper HDR10+ support to their 2016 sets for a start, and not the half-arsed effort so far. That would provide a much larger user base from the off, which movie producers would really like.
       
    4. pressure

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      Manufacturers like Panasonic like hdr10 because they can do their own picture processing and differentiate their sets with their long established picture processing skills. Plus yes, less licensing cost. Amazon’s support is very interesting but Netflix isn’t on board yet - looks like they may support hdr10+ if it gets traction though.
       
    5. Andrew Lau

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      if HDR 10+ is getting UHD bluray approval, does that mean we may see separate versions of the same movie?
       
    6. raduv1

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      The base layer would still be HDR10 much like discs with DV support that still have to have the HDR10 base layer. Just think of it like languages or soundstage support all on one disc. No need for separate versions .

      At this rate though and ad libbing from Jaws , " We are going to need a bigger disc space :D " for all these different formats .
       
    7. smurf_2010

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      If more movie studios join Dolby Vision will basically be dead.
       
    8. raduv1

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      How can even the most dedicated of1 AV enthusiast build a UHD set up when the UHD specs continue to change on a daily basis and the major manufacturers pick and choose at will for their hardware? Look at Panny, DV on spinners but not on their displays !

      What was meant to be a standardised simple effective solution for the physical format to combat the rise of streaming media. Well its becoming a farce TBH where even the most dedicated AV enthusiast is left second guessing .

      Bugger 1080p Blu was great for stability of a format for the enthusiast but failed to gain traction for Joe public. This format is a bugger for the enthusiast let alone Joe.

      I would love to upgrade my DX902, Dennon AVR2200 and UB900 spinner at some point . The format though just keeps changing and manufacturers with it cherry picking to such an extent that this format can not become standarised.

      Balls this up on purpose to turn us all to streaming media it seems .
       
    9. antsims

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      So, could an LG C6 OLED have this as a firmware update just like it did for HLG?
       
    10. Buckster666

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      Depends who Disney throws down with to be fair, as all their sub companies including 20th Century Fox would follow suit.
       
    11. Andrew Lau

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      So the same UHD blu-ray disc will support hdr10+ and dolby vision?

      HDR 10 is a given of course
       
    12. Steve Withers

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      Since Fox will only be using HDR10+ (unless Disney have other ideas) then at the moment only Warners can answer that question as they currently produce discs with Dolby Vision and have announced support for HDR10+ as well.
       
    13. nekromantik

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    14. raduv1

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      The same disc will support HDR10 as a given. Different studios it seems will support DV or HDR10+ on that very same disc . But manufacturers will choose one or the other but not both on hardware options . HDR10+ on a spinner but not display , DV on a spinner and display but not HDR10+ . Can have one but not the other .

      So we have the static metadata in HDR10 that I've not found fault with TBH.

      But now we have a format war it seems once again with DV and HDR10+ much like BD and HD DVD back in the day . That was resoled pretty sharpish but are any display manufacturers offering DV and HDR10+ on a display this year ?

      I'm just gonna stick with me HDR10 for the foreseeable..........

      Not going to bite on this crap anymore until physical media kills itself and we only have the DD / streaming option.
       
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    15. dlb99

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      DV vs HDR10+ is nothing like BD vs HD-DVD. A better analogy is DTS-MA vs Dolby TrueHD.

      DV and HDR10+ are usually enhancement layers above HDR10. Everyone supports HDR10.

      DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD are lossless audio options that live alongside Dolby Digital. Everyone supports Dolby Digital.

      If you have a TV & player that supports HDR10 very well (tone map wise) then you can pretty much ignore Dolby Vision and HDR10+. Don't get me wrong dynamic HDR meta-data is nice, but think of it as sugar-on-the-top; it is NOT a must.
       
    16. Steve Withers

      Steve Withers
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      That's not a bad analogy but the problem is that all AV Receivers support both Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio, so it doesn't matter which sound format the disc uses. However no TV currently supports both HDR10+ and Dolby Vision, which means you can't enjoy both formats even though the Panasonic UB820 player will play them.
       
    17. Andrew Lau

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      Interesting! What would you say is a good tone map? There are quite a few different ways of implementing...
       
    18. SunnyIntervals

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      I haven't had any problems with HDR10 to be honest, maybe purists will but I'm happy with DV and HDR10 on my LG set. If LG release an update, great, if not, it's no big deal.
       
    19. geogan

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      Unfortunately, some experts have found faults with the HDR10 metadata. Apparently it is completely fudgeed up on many 4k disc releases. The static values for max average brightness and maximum pixel brightness were found to be completely wrong in the metadata, so they would totally mess up the tone mapping process. More sloppiness from the studios shooting themselves in the foot it appears.
       
    20. The Luggage

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      Since dynamic metadata seems to be gaining more traction, I’m wondering if projector manufactures will be adding support for HDR10+ or Dolby Vision in their next projectors.

      As far as I understand HDR (and metadata and tone mapping), projectors should theoretically benefit from dynamic metadata.

      It seems Dolby is not very keen on getting Dolby Vision to projectors (no control over a lot of parameters, like screen size, screen gain, throw distance, …)

      Is HDR10+ more likely to get to projectors ?
       
    21. ashenfie

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      While thats true. if DV HDR10+ is equiv, then one will win out to save costs or because of no interest. It really be interesting if someone came up with a DV to HDR10+ converter. That way lic. free on the TV and less locked down controls.
       
    22. Khazul

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      Yes - but the HDR10 base layer is of no interest - that's a downgrade.

      The question is can a UHD BD have BOTH DV and HDR10+ metadata on it for a full dynamic HDR experience in both HDR10+ compatible players as well as DV compatible players. All I ever see is people painting the rosey picture of you can always just watch the base layer. We know - that is not the point :)
       
      Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
    23. raduv1

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      Why on earth is HDR10 a downgrade ? Find me a display that features HDR10+ and DV . No matter what display you go for in 2018 ATM you you will only be able to watch either DV or HDR10+ but HDR10 will be there as the base layer.

      Let's say for instance one has an LG OLED as your OK with studios that have the HDR10 base layer or DV . You ( at the moment ) would not be catered for a studio release with HDR10 / HDR10+ . That base layer is really needed atm unless things change for the worse and on is forced to decide between DV or HDR10+ dynamic.

      Until display manufacturers go for HDR10+ and DV support then it really does not matter on disc support , does it ?

      When we have studios and display manufacturers going one or the other but not both then one is left in limbo . Spinners / AVRs seem to be using both dynamic formats but it is the display that really needs to support all.
       
      Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
    24. Khazul

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      Sorry - I realised I missed "BD" off "UHD BD" - ie can the disc support both formats simultaneously?

      As I understand it metadata tracks are separate from the video data stream, so I *think* they are in fact stored separately to the video and thus the answer wold be yes, but I don't really know one way or the other.
       
    25. Jamie0003

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      This is getting silly now. First we had standard 4K TV's, then HDR TV's, then Dolby Vision TV's, and now HDR 10+. When on earth is the right time to buy a 4K tv for future proofing? I got my oled in 2016 and feel completely ripped off because in years to come there will be about a bajillion formats of HDR that it won't support. If Samsung etc want this to take off, they need to bring support to all TVs. Hopefully that will happen.

      How do they expect to get people to upgrade to 4K with all these confusing standards, especially when different TV's support different stuff? I would imagine the general consumer has no clue what any of it means, let alone which TV to buy. Good luck to 8K in the future...
       
      Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
    26. doug56hl

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      Just the one or at most two it won't support if it's a LG 2016 Oled. It covers HDR10, DV and HLG. So just missing HDR10+ and Technicolor HDR (although there doesn't seem to be any content with this yet and so its not being there is no big deal). If you feel ripped off think of the folk who bought 4K sets in 2014/5 which don't have any flavour of HDR at all.

      It is impossible to future proof unless you want a technology freeze. The "right time to buy" is when you want a TV. As none of the 2018 TVs so far have HDMI 2.1, if you want to future proof you would have to wait until 2019. And by then there will no doubt be some more new feature(s) as well to aim for. And if you want to future proof for 8K you'll have a much longer wait... ;)

      One good thing with the dropping of 3D support from new TVs is, if you want to watch 3D, no need to get on the feature upgrade train especially if you have a 2016 3D Oled.
       
    27. dlb99

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      What do you mean no interest? Honestly the so-called downgrade of HDR10 is small in nature on good HDR displays.

      A couple of the very best UHD Blu-ray discs of 2017 do NOT have Dolby Vision or HDR10+, those being Blade Runner and Dunkirk. Both are reference discs and have been praised mightily, including here.

      Again, dynamic meta-data is nice to have, it is an improvement, but far FAR less than the improvement between SDR and HDR. HDR10 is still valid, now more than ever.
       
    28. dlb99

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      Maybe Sony will do it? However, they are struggling even to just release the Dolby Vision firmware (promised for a year now). LG appears to be a firm no for HDR10+.

      It may be possible for a UHD Blu-ray player to decode the Dolby Vision layer inside the player and transcode it to HDR10+ on the fly. Maybe the Panasonic 820 player will do that?

      Long term, I believe that HDR10+ will tend to prevail over Dolby Vision, especially with Warner's now on board. Everyone already does HDR10, I suspect the mastering / tooling will mean HDR10+ will be extremely easy to spit out.

      For the here and now, just buy the best HDR10 set you can; it won't be a wasted buy even with this dynamic meta-data uncertainty in the air.
       
    29. Jamie0003

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      Yeah this is true but if the manufacturers want people to upgrade to 4K/HDR they are going the wrong way with it. Why would you not want your TV to support all the current standards? I know they often forget older models to incentivise you to upgrade but if even the latest models don’t support everything so what’s the point? Also I would choose HDR over 3D any day.
       
    30. Captain Ron

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      Are these new Panasonics universal optical spinners? i.e. UHD/bluray/DVD/DVD-A/SACD/CD?
       

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