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NEWS: BBC and Sky agree new collaboration

flashf1

Active Member
So this means BBC iPlayer in Ireland now, through Sky??? Very surprising (but very welcome), never been able to access bbc iplayer before
 

rs101

Active Member
So this means BBC iPlayer in Ireland now, through Sky??? Very surprising (but very welcome), never been able to access bbc iplayer before
Not necessarily. Nothing about that press release suggests it'll be available there.
 

TJT1

Well-known Member
Probably will not be because BBC would get no income from licence payers.
 

MarkusThatch

Distinguished Member
Always feel a bit reluctant to take on board any announcements from sky given their HLG 2019 promise which still hasn't happened and their other 2019 promise of BT sport through sky, also yet to happen.
 

flashf1

Active Member
Not necessarily. Nothing about that press release suggests it'll be available there.
except it was the from the sky UK & Ireland spokesman - that's what pricked my ears! But I admit it's stretch...!
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I think the issue with this arrangement is that it gives preferencial treatment to SKY customers and the BBC are supposed to be catering to the UK as a whole without partiality. The BBC themselves removed most of what they appear to be now reinstating for just SKY customers. There's technically no reason why such interaction cannot be reinstated for other platforms and technically should be reinstated wholesale as opposed to limiting it to just SKY customers. The deal seems to award SKY and their customers with a lot more than it gives BBC license payers in general.
 

rs101

Active Member
How does it give them preferential treatment? The iPlayer app on Q is the same as that on the NowTV box, most TVs,etc.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
How does it give them preferential treatment? The iPlayer app on Q is the same as that on the NowTV box, most TVs,etc.

So those using Virgin Media cable get the same ability and what about those on Freeview? Yes, SKY customers are being given preferencial treatment.

The abilities being discussed will only be available via SKY and SKY's STBs and as such will only be available to SKY subscribers. Are all BBC ltcense payers getting free SKY in return? What are SKY giving to the BBC that benefits every one of the BBC's license payers or that is at least accessible by them without need of a SKY subscription?
 
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Malingo

Active Member
So those using Virgin Media cable get the same ability and what about those on Freeview? Yes, SKY customers are being given preferencial treatment.

The abilities being discussed will only be available via SKY and SKY's STBs and as such will only be available to SKY subscribers. Are all BBC ltcense payers getting free SKY in return? What are SKY giving to the BBC that benefits every one of the BBC's license payers or that is at least accessible by them without need of a SKY subscription?
I mean, it's a pure marketing technology. I don't consider being marketed to more effectively 'preferential treatment' and Sky will now simply have the same access to iPlayer content as everyone else, as in the back catalogue that the BBC is slowly broadening, rather than a restricted catch up service.
That, at least is my understanding of it.
The BBC don't seem to be losing anything, integrity wise. It's a trade of a content library for better market positioning.

I imagine BBC will also be looking at whether PromoSmart might have a more universal application outside of Sky, depending on the agreement.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Pressing the red button doesn't access iPlayer on other services. You'd simply be given access to the BBC's interactive services if pressing the red button while viewing a BBC channel via other platforms.
The red button would ordinarilly give those viewing a BBC channel access to the BBC's interactive services and not access to iPlayer. Nor do the BBC readilly allow other platforms direct access to the iPlayer via that platforms catch up service.

The BBC themselves purposefully removed such abilities and prevent platforms interacting with the iPlayer service.

The one to one customer interaction (Sky’s AdSmart) will only work on the SKY platform and is reliant upon SKY's own algorithms and software associated with their customers on their platform.
 
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THX1138UK

Active Member
The BBC is is not a commercial organisation in the UK. It shouldn't be targeting ads / trailers.
First they insisted everybody had to have an account for iPlayer, so they could offer a more personalised serviced (I do not want a personalised service), now they want to use Sky's Promo technology.

I'm afraid it makes me less inclined to support the TV licence as a funding model (which I'm usually an advocate for).

Regards,
James.
 

Pablo1916

Novice Member
Couldn't agree more. The BBC should ditch the current form of licencing and allow people to choose to either opt in and pay upfront for a licence and allow others to pay per view if the want to watch their content.

I appreciate there are people who watch it (BBC) and enjoy it but personally speaking I think what they put out is garbage.

Then there's all the stuff they've produced over the years and then have the audacity to charge people for their DVDs etc... Haven't people already paid their fair share by way of licence fees?

The way people watch TV now has changed massively since the the BBCs inception, they need to catch up and change their ways and stop forcing people to pay for their drivel.

We don't all want to pay for something we don't watch just because we have the means to receive the signal.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I should point out that the BBC's mandate isn't to entertain. It is a public broadcasting service that is supposed to remain impartial and free from commercial or indeed state influences. This is what would be lost if the licence were to be done away with in favour of the BBC raising funds via commercial practices.

It isn't the prime time shows that make the BBC special, it is the things that cater for the minorities or simply those seeking a news source free from commercial restraints. Lose the licence and you lose this. If you don't require such services then this is no reason to suggest you shouldn't be contributing something towards it. The BBC is the envy of the world for good reason and that reason isn't Strictly Come Dancing, Doctor Who or Eastenders.

Whether or not younger people are moving towards streaming as their access point for entertainment is neither here nor there. Such services do not broadcast news and are limited when it comes to catering for minorities. They are also heavilly influenced by their dependance upon commmercial funding.
 
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Otto Chriek

Standard Member
I take the point that the BBC makes some programmes of minority interest but there are very rare and I believe that youtube is now a better source for such content.

Youtube video's are not as polished as broadcast programmes but often offer excellent content as they are made by people who have a good understanding of their field of interest.
 

THX1138UK

Active Member
I take the point that the BBC makes some programmes of minority interest but there are very rare and I believe that youtube is now a better source for such content.

Youtube video's are not as polished as broadcast programmes but often offer excellent content as they are made by people who have a good understanding of their field of interest.
I don’t think siting YouTube is a very convincing argument for minority interest content. The BBC is a curated and regulated broadcaster where journalists are held to account and news and other programming can be fact checked, and complaints can be raised & investigated. It also has a mandate to be accessible to all of British society, not just those who are tech savvy.

The BBC isn’t perfect and it can be argued that it has a progressive left-leaning perspective that matches the people it recruits, but its editorial content is leagues better than YouTube which is like the wild-west in comparison, and most content (for anyone over the age of 12) is junk.

Of course there are exceptions, and some YouTube content is factually correct and well made, but it’s a tiny drop in the ocean compared with the dross it generally serves up. The lack of transparency when it comes to influencers and sponsored content is just dreadful.

Giving anti-vaccination and flat-earth believes equal and unrestricted platform access doesn’t help society or fulfil the public service remit that the BBC should be robustly upholding.

The problem is, the BBC is becoming ever more focused on rating and trying to compete with commercial broadcasters whom already serve the mainstream audience very well.

The BBC should be doing the type of programmes that a commercial organisation wouldn’t or couldn’t fund.

The argument shouldn’t be about what an individual finds interesting, but what they consider is beneficial to society as a whole.

This is why I’m broadly in favour of keeping the current funding model. But I do think some reforms within the BBC are necessary.

Regards,
James.
 
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AidenL

Well-known Member
So this means BBC iPlayer in Ireland now, through Sky??? Very surprising (but very welcome), never been able to access bbc iplayer before
Not necessarily. Nothing about that press release suggests it'll be available there.
except it was the from the sky UK & Ireland spokesman - that's what pricked my ears! But I admit it's stretch...!
I’m not seeing it here in Ireland anyway.
 

usenetz

Active Member

dante01

Distinguished Member
Note that EDUCATION is listed before ENTERTAINMENT. It has to be said that some of the educational content does actually also serve the premise of also being entertaining. For example, much of the content currently originating from the Open University that now airs on the BBC. This isn't however strictly speaking educational in the same manner that the older OU content used to be and is actually commissioned by the BBC as oposed to the Open University using the BBC to air it. You no longer see the bearded guys from the seventies wearing flares, kipper ties and scribbling on blackboards necause the OU can deliver its own content via the internet or on DVD directly to their students and are no longer reliant on the BBC to do this for them.


  • The Royal Charter establishes the general public service obligation of BBC, namely to provide sound and television broadcasting programmes of information, education and entertainment services (whether by analogue or digital means) as public services. In addition, the Royal Charter requires BBC to remain under constant and effective review from outside, including by public meetings and seminars.

What is clear is that whether it be educational or intended to entertain, it has to be delivered as a public service.

  • The Agreement sets out more detailed public services and content obligations required of BBC. For example -
    • (a) Clause 3 provides that BBC's services shall respect high general standards, particularly regarding their content, quality and editorial integrity, and offering of a wide range of subject matter meeting the needs and interests of audiences.
    • (b) Clause 5 elaborates on the above-mentioned programme standards, providing that BBC should do all it can to ensure that its services -
    • (i) provide properly balanced services consisting of a wide range of subject matter;
      • (ii) serve the tastes and needs of different audiences;
      • (iii) treat controversial subjects with due accuracy and impartiality;
      • (iv) do not contain abusive treatment of religious views;
      • (v) do not include anything which offends against good taste or decency, or encourages/incites crime or leads to disorder; and
      • (vi) are not offensive to public feeling.
 
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r21442

Active Member
Note that EDUCATION is listed before ENTERTAINMENT.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Jeezo - Did you have chips and fish for your dinner?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Did the Fish shop re[eatedly list fish on their menu and not mention chips again?

The BBC's mandate only mentions "entertain" once and then goes on to state its commitments to the other services it provides.


Mission, values and public purposes
The Royal Charter states that the BBC’s object is “the fulfilment of its Mission and the promotion of its Public Purposes”
Our mission is "to act in the public interest, serving all audiences through the provision of impartial, high-quality and distinctive output and services which inform, educate and entertain".

The Charter also sets out our five public purposes:

1. To provide impartial news and information to help people understand and engage with the world around them

The BBC should provide duly accurate and impartial news, current affairs and factual programming to build people’s understanding of all parts of the United Kingdom and of the wider world. Its content should be provided to the highest editorial standards. It should offer a range and depth of analysis and content not widely available from other United Kingdom news providers, using the highest calibre presenters and journalists, and championing freedom of expression, so that all audiences can engage fully with major local, regional, national, United Kingdom and global issues and participate in the democratic process, at all levels, as active and informed citizens.

2. To support learning for people of all ages

The BBC should help everyone learn about different subjects in ways they will find accessible, engaging, inspiring and challenging. The BBC should provide specialist educational content to help support learning for children and teenagers across the United Kingdom. It should encourage people to explore new subjects and participate in new activities through partnerships with educational, sporting and cultural institutions.

3. To show the most creative, highest quality and distinctive output and services

The BBC should provide high-quality output in many different genres and across a range of services and platforms which sets the standard in the United Kingdom and internationally. Its services should be distinctive from those provided elsewhere and should take creative risks, even if not all succeed, in order to develop fresh approaches and innovative content.

4. To reflect, represent and serve the diverse communities of all of the United Kingdom’s nations and regions and, in doing so, support the creative economy across the United Kingdom

The BBC should reflect the diversity of the United Kingdom both in its output and services. In doing so, the BBC should accurately and authentically represent and portray the lives of the people of the United Kingdom today, and raise awareness of the different cultures and alternative viewpoints that make up its society. It should ensure that it provides output and services that meet the needs of the United Kingdom’s nations, regions and communities. The BBC should bring people together for shared experiences and help contribute to the social cohesion and wellbeing of the United Kingdom. In commissioning and delivering output the BBC should invest in the creative economies of each of the nations and contribute to their development.

5. To reflect the United Kingdom, its culture and values to the world

The BBC should provide high-quality news coverage to international audiences, firmly based on British values of accuracy, impartiality, and fairness. Its international services should put the United Kingdom in a world context, aiding understanding of the United Kingdom as a whole, including its nations and regions where appropriate. It should ensure that it produces output and services which will be enjoyed by people in the United Kingdom and globally.


There's one mention of the word "entertain" within the entire mission statement.



The fact of the matter is that if some were to get there way then the BBC would drop all comitments to entertainment in order to be able to afford its other commitments. The current conservative government have already suggested that this is the way that they want the BBC to go, but the Tory's don't like and never have liked the BBC anyway based upon the fact that they hate not being able to control it. The upcoming removal of the free licence for pensioners stands testament to this. It is the government who used to pay for it and it is the government that is removing this consession for pensioners, the BBC. The conservatives keep insisting that it is the BBC that is at fault and or to blame.




Besides which, what the hell have fish and chips to do with anything? You can always trust the members of this board to come up with the strangest of analogies. It says Boots the chemists on the sides of buses, but I'd like to see you try get a prescription fulfilled by the driver. Do you ask the man behind the counter at the chip shop what TV channel you should watch?
 
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r21442

Active Member
The point is that whilst Reith deliberately set the order of the mission according to his thoughts it was criticised (and supported) from that day on. Here we are doing the same. It was just one man's opinion - two if we presumably count you?

Some people prefer chips, some fish but fish & chips is the order in our lexicon just like the beeb charter. No different.

FWIW, IMHO the institution does a lot of things well and a great many not so. For whatever they do I'd like to see them funded by taxation and scrap the unenforceable and mass non-payed TV license.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I'd rather it be taxed, but if it were then it becomes something the government control and what the BBC spends its money on would also become a political matter. My above comments go some way as to extol why this may not be such a good idea. The Conservatives really do hate the BBC so it will become another NHS like football for those within parliment to kick about.
 

r21442

Active Member
Well, tax is tax irrespective of how inefficient it is and it is set by governments and we elect to run the country (I know) for us! When there are now so many alternatives for people to choose to watch I sympathise somewhat with the non-payers and / or non-users. In any case changes to the charter could be easily drafted to minimise government interference. Lest this descend into politico bashing there are too many that believe that if they are not interfering they are not doing their job - like the bad managers we all know. I digress.

I will take issue somewhat at your pop at the Tories. The BBC is widely recognised as having a predominant left wing culture. Not for nothing the jibes about Guardian readership. Many reasons for this. Its charter, the businesses it is and has been in and the people attracted to those types of work and managers hiring in their own image. There may be others. That is not necessarily a criticism but is a fact of life of many organisations and companies. The more I watch BBC news the more I view their output as left leaning. I say that as someone who has never voted Tory in their 58yo life. I can see why there may be friction there.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I will take issue somewhat at your pop at the Tories. The BBC is widely recognised as having a predominant left wing culture.
Yeah, Andrew Neil is very left wing isn't he LOL.


It has nothing to do with being seen as being left wing and everything to do with the right not having the ability to tell the BBC what to say. The fact that it has remained impartial appears to have caused the conservatives to get annoyed and suggest that because they don't side with them then they must be therefore left wing? Most of it stems from the Thatcher years when the government were quite vocal when it came to critising the BBC for not siding with them on many of their policies. JUst bacause you don't take up one sides banner doesn't mean you are carry the oppositions banner either.

It has to also be recognised that most of the nation was anti Thatcher going into the eighties and it would have been practically impossible for any broadcaster to avoid expressing this then. Mark Thompson, Director General of the BBC who joined the organisation in 1979 said in 2010 "there was, in much of current affairs, in terms of people's personal politics, which were quite vocal, a massive bias to the left. The organisation did struggle then with impartiality, but it should also be noted that during the eighties when the conservatives were throwing their hands in the air proclaiming the BBC to be left wing that Stuart Young, the brother of conservative cabinet minister David Young was appointed as BBC chairman and in 1986, brother-in-law of another Cabinet Minister, Marmaduke Hussey was also appointed chairman. Where was the impartiality then?

I remember the conservatives proclaiming the BBC to be unpatriotic at the time. Sound familiar now? This appears to be what they proclaim anyone or anything is that doesn't cave in and let them run riot over eberyone and everything.

The reason for the diminished impartiality was the unagreeable nature of the right wing conservative government at the time. Most of the complaints raised from the conservatives actually related to the BBC reporting facts as opposed to reporting anything that showed favouritism to the left. The BBC is supposed to remain impartitial and isn't a propaganda machine for the conservative party. It reporting the truth unpatriotic? Maybe we should have state TV like Russia and have Boris filmed fighter a badger or riding a donkey through the New Forrest. Maybe even let him use a stunt double when mopping floors?
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
As to the non payers who apparently only watch Netflix. Why would they need a licence anyway? You don't need one in order to use Netflix? Why should the licence be abolished to appease those who don't need one?

I should also point out that Netflix and other similar streaming services aren't free either. You'll be paying the same if not more to access several of these simultaneously over the course of a year and none of them carry news local or national.

No one is forcing those not wanting live TV to pay anything for a licence.

You do not need a TV Licence to watch:
  • non-BBC programmes on online catch-up services
  • videos or DVDs
  • clips on websites like YouTube
  • streaming services such as Netflix, Amazon Video or indeed BritBox

You only need a licence if you want to:
  • watch or record programmes as they’re being shown on TV or live on an online TV service
  • download or watch BBC programmes on iPlayer.
 
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r21442

Active Member
Wow, do you work for the beeb, mate?

"most of the nation was anti Thatcher going into the early eighties" Really? I know it wasn't a landslide in '79 but tell me a government that has achieved >50% of the vote!

Next, "The fact that it has remained impartial appears to have caused the conservatives to get annoyed" followed by " going into the early eighties and it would have been practically impossible for any broadcaster to avoid expressing this then" and "The reason for the diminished impartiality" - Which is it? Impartial or not? Killed your own argument! If it was happening in the 80's why not now?

Next, appointments at the top do not affect an organisations culture. The inertia of its history and employees does not materially change even if the edicts do. Basic organisational behaviour.
 

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