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NEWS: Arcam announces ST60 dedicated music streamer
- Thread starter Andy Bassett
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RBZ5416
Outstanding Member
"Very first dedicated streamer"?
www.arcam.co.uk
"The ARCAM ST60 will be available in the UK from Q4 2020"
Presumably, given the track record of the rest of the HDA range, we can anticipate a mostly working version some time around a year later.
"priced £1,199.00"
Arcam - rPlay(Discontinued) - rSeries
The Arcam rSeries products are all about getting the best sound from any digital device. These products can be used with any audio system and are a...
www.arcam.co.uk
"The ARCAM ST60 will be available in the UK from Q4 2020"
Presumably, given the track record of the rest of the HDA range, we can anticipate a mostly working version some time around a year later.
"priced £1,199.00"
The whole 'Accessories' range has been discontinued and, with only a single FMJ product advertised on their website, it looks like they are concentrating solely on the HDA line going forward. I always thought the 'r' products were great little units and highly rated but obviously they don't fit into the Harman vision.
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RBZ5416
Outstanding Member
So they could put it in a bigger box & triple the price?
Wording changed to reflect the Arcam press release which describes the ST60 as "its first source solely dedicated to high performance music streaming" - it seems to be how they want to market the ST60. Hope that's a little clearer."Very first dedicated streamer"?
Arcam - rPlay(Discontinued) - rSeries
The Arcam rSeries products are all about getting the best sound from any digital device. These products can be used with any audio system and are a...
"The ARCAM ST60 will be available in the UK from Q4 2020"
Presumably, given the track record of the rest of the HDA range, we can anticipate a mostly working version some time around a year later.
"priced £1,199.00"
Steve356
Distinguished Member
"Very first dedicated streamer"?
Arcam - rPlay(Discontinued) - rSeries
The Arcam rSeries products are all about getting the best sound from any digital device. These products can be used with any audio system and are a...
"The ARCAM ST60 will be available in the UK from Q4 2020"
Presumably, given the track record of the rest of the HDA range, we can anticipate a mostly working version some time around a year later.
"priced £1,199.00"
I love your optimism, but I think a mostly working version will take much longer than one year. Maybe 4 or 5 years.
bogart99
Prominent Member
Not that model but I had a Metrosound amp back then think it had a 20 in the title as was 20W per channel
SoundVision
Prominent Member
Cambridge CXN music streamer and a Arcam SA20 stereo amp, which uses the same Sabre ESS 9038 Dac , probably get similar sound quality, with those two
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D
Deleted member 835347
Guest
Suspect the streaming platform used in this product may be based on the Arcam SA30 and the more recently released Arcam Uno amplifier/ streamer.
Presumably the ST60 could also be used as a transport for AVR's that may not have the full roster of streaming services built-in provisionally (including the Trinnov, Lyngdorf TDAi-3400, MP-40, etc. which whilst they may have services such as Spotify and Roon, neither appear to have Airplay 2 or Chromecast built in) may be limited to a subset of music providers presumably and/or reliant on Roon?
One thing that I noted having checked the released press photo's is a lack of a 12v trigger which is a shame as that'd make it more integrated solution where it could trigger an AVR to turn on and switch source - but guess there are workarounds like the Bobwire trigger that can mitigate that.
The SA30 and subsequently the Arcam Uno combined have both had a while (1-2 years?) to mature so if it's a shared platform, at least for music, it would likely be more stable than the newer Arcam AVRs which are still quite glitchy 8 months in...!
The newer Arcam products all include streaming built in so the need for the rPlay is perhaps not needed now for their newer line up?
I did previously investigate getting an Arcam rPlay, but was put off by a lack of Chromecast and Airplay 2, etc which seem a typical expectation nowadays for a broader and wider compatibility of music services!
Agree that the list price doesn't appear to be as competitively priced as the rPlay but presumably that was an add-on device for FMJ owners without a screen, etc. based on the Play-Fi platform due to the FMJ line up not having built in music services other than Spotify, but presume this is intended for more traditional Hi-Fi users wanting a remote, and screen etc. or AVR wanting a transport?
Equivalent transports with screens built in that I'd previously researched appear to cost considerably more, e.g. the Naim NDX2 (4.4x the price) or Auralic Altair (1.6x the price), etc so compared to those it seems to be relatively reasonable value (but do agree it's a jump up in price vs. getting an rPlay) and potentially more feature rich (e.g. Chromecast, Airplay 2 also being included).
Presumably the ST60 could also be used as a transport for AVR's that may not have the full roster of streaming services built-in provisionally (including the Trinnov, Lyngdorf TDAi-3400, MP-40, etc. which whilst they may have services such as Spotify and Roon, neither appear to have Airplay 2 or Chromecast built in) may be limited to a subset of music providers presumably and/or reliant on Roon?
One thing that I noted having checked the released press photo's is a lack of a 12v trigger which is a shame as that'd make it more integrated solution where it could trigger an AVR to turn on and switch source - but guess there are workarounds like the Bobwire trigger that can mitigate that.
I love your optimism, but I think a mostly working version will take much longer than one year. Maybe 4 or 5 years.
The SA30 and subsequently the Arcam Uno combined have both had a while (1-2 years?) to mature so if it's a shared platform, at least for music, it would likely be more stable than the newer Arcam AVRs which are still quite glitchy 8 months in...!
The newer Arcam products all include streaming built in so the need for the rPlay is perhaps not needed now for their newer line up?
I did previously investigate getting an Arcam rPlay, but was put off by a lack of Chromecast and Airplay 2, etc which seem a typical expectation nowadays for a broader and wider compatibility of music services!
Agree that the list price doesn't appear to be as competitively priced as the rPlay but presumably that was an add-on device for FMJ owners without a screen, etc. based on the Play-Fi platform due to the FMJ line up not having built in music services other than Spotify, but presume this is intended for more traditional Hi-Fi users wanting a remote, and screen etc. or AVR wanting a transport?
Equivalent transports with screens built in that I'd previously researched appear to cost considerably more, e.g. the Naim NDX2 (4.4x the price) or Auralic Altair (1.6x the price), etc so compared to those it seems to be relatively reasonable value (but do agree it's a jump up in price vs. getting an rPlay) and potentially more feature rich (e.g. Chromecast, Airplay 2 also being included).
RBZ5416
Outstanding Member
Seems to have been priced directly against the CA 851N, which is a bold move considering CA's steady development from the Stream Magic 6 vs Arcam flip-flopping between platforms (Play-Fi, Airable, DLNA). I think it would be a brave move to chose the Arcam with their terrible record on software implementation over the stable, well renowned CA with a superior app.
Something that surprises me is their persistence with RS232 control. Surely that must be a very niche customer base?
D
Deleted member 835347
Guest
Not sure if the CA851N has Airplay 2 or Chromecast (for wider music service support) - looks like the lower end CXN2 (£799) or the higher end Edge NQ (£3500) do appear to have both - if the 851N gets updated so that it does, presumably it'll get a price bump (seems to be the way with new products!).
It seems that Arcam may have settled using Airable looking at the current line-up, which, overall I'm getting used to - so long as they refine things a bit more.
Agree music life is getting a bit long in the tooth, hopefully the rumoured replacement (was told by the Arcam rep's something is intended / planned at Bristol hifi show in February).
Could the RS232 be for CI compatibility with Creston and Control 4 perhaps?
Ed Selley
Hi-Fi Editor
I don't believe any other corner of the Harman Luxury Audio portfolio used Play Fi so it would be a logical step to nix it and stop paying for a license you're only using for one product.
It's not clear from the press release but there is a fairly good streaming platform doing the rounds at HLA that the Mark Levinson products use. If this has a version of that software in it, it could be pretty effective.
Nocturnal
Established Member
You can never judge a devices sound quality on a DAC chip and definitely not say it sounds similar to another brand because it has the same DAC chip.
The DAC chip is only a part of the audio circuit.
DACs integrated into amplifiers do not sound as good as dedicated streamers, the DAC in my Arcam SA10 is not in the same league as my Arcam CDS27 SACD Streamer.
Nocturnal
Established Member
This ST60 streamer is twice the price of the Arcam CDS50 SACD Streamer which obviously also plays CDs! I've never heard it but it's predecessor, the CDS27 is a stunning CD player and streamer... Which I'm streaming internet radio to right now through through Arcam's app MusicLife.
I find MusicLife excellent for internet radio (maybe Tidal etc also which I don't use) but it is extremely lacking for playing stored music on drives and this phone so I use Bubble uPnP for network stored music.
It also took Arcam years to release the Android version, it was Apple only and I've owned the CDS27 since 2016 and only recently been able to use MusicLife but wow the streamed radio sounds absolutely luscious and fabulous here...
I definitely don't need the new streamer and I doubt it sounds better than this does. I have owned a flagship Arcam CD player in the past, the Alpha 9 with ringDAC and the CDS27 was a cut above.
I find MusicLife excellent for internet radio (maybe Tidal etc also which I don't use) but it is extremely lacking for playing stored music on drives and this phone so I use Bubble uPnP for network stored music.
It also took Arcam years to release the Android version, it was Apple only and I've owned the CDS27 since 2016 and only recently been able to use MusicLife but wow the streamed radio sounds absolutely luscious and fabulous here...
I definitely don't need the new streamer and I doubt it sounds better than this does. I have owned a flagship Arcam CD player in the past, the Alpha 9 with ringDAC and the CDS27 was a cut above.
That's interesting. I recently purchased a SA30 amp and sold my CDS27 due to the fact I mainly streamed from my NAS anyway and rarely play CD's so it seemed I was doubling up. I now stream to the SA 30 and on the rare occasion I want to play a CD or SACD I play it on my Oppo BDP 105. I would have assumed the SA30 DAC would be better than the CDS27.
Nocturnal
Established Member
Well I don't know but I'd have done a good CDS27 Vs SA30 audition. What do you think? Did you try the CDS27 with the SA30 before selling it?
I did an extensive CDS27 Vs SA10 comparison and the SA10 DAC lacked bass, impact, presence, 3D spatiality and was not in the same league ( I find the CDS27 just more musical ). Some of the media reviews said the analogue inputs did not sound as good as the SA10 DAC inputs but I found nothing like this and they didn't state their test source player.
I only use the SA10 DAC for TV/AV media for which it is great and I never expected it to match the CDS27 in the first place. Nor did it come close to my Rega DAC which is now sold... I preferred the CDS27 despite the Rega outdoing it in timing and articulation but the bass, presence and bigger richer soundstage I always kept choosing.
The Rega DAC was brilliant for the likes of Kraftwerk and syth.
SoundVision
Prominent Member
All l know is that Arcam SA20 stereo amp and Cambridge CXN music streamer paired together, sounds mighty dam good, man
craig808
Established Member
"Very first dedicated streamer"?
Arcam - rPlay(Discontinued) - rSeries
The Arcam rSeries products are all about getting the best sound from any digital device. These products can be used with any audio system and are a...
"The ARCAM ST60 will be available in the UK from Q4 2020"
Presumably, given the track record of the rest of the HDA range, we can anticipate a mostly working version some time around a year later.
"priced £1,199.00"
Yep, I agree with that.
I won't be a beta tester for them again!
Nocturnal
Established Member
Yes but are you impressed with the MusicLife software streaming experience?
I updated MusicLife yesterday yet again falsely hoping they'd fix this shit app. Was enjoying internet radio there streamed from my Android phone to the Arcam CDS27 but 40 minutes later music stops and yet again MusicLife severed the connection and cannot see the CDS27.
I have no issues with the software at all. I only stream from my NAS and I always play albums completely so I’m not interested in Tidal or any of the streaming services and now I can play files gapless I’m extra happy. Occasionally I’ll listen to radio 2 through the app.
I'd be willing to bet the ST60 would offer you absolutely zero difference in SQ to the self contained streaming through your SA30.
Nocturnal
Established Member
Really? Are we still talking about MusicLife here?
Interesting, you are the first person I've heard reporting no problems. Anyone with CDS27/CDS50 SACD streamers and what seems the entire Arcam AV receiver community report the same problems. The app has a bad rep in the Google Play store for good reason.
A shame as I like the app when it works. Another new problem is the CDS27 showing unsupported file format when trying to stream some of my favourite 320kbps radio stations, they worked until a few weeks ago and work fine with other radio apps.
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