NEWS: 8K Association expands TV specifications

Captain Ron

Well-known Member
I went to the 8K Association page and had a look at their "Finding 8K content" page. I found it rather amusing tbh. The advertising blurb about 8K being more resolution!, more pixels! reminded me of the car advert from Robocop. "6000SUX. An American tradition. Because bigger is better!" 🤪
 

Rob20

Well-known Member
I’m perfectly happy with my 4K 65” C8. I won’t needlessly upgrade my tv for 8k.
 

Hixs

Distinguished Member
Fools and their money...
 

benmbe

Active Member

Will I Aint

Active Member
8k is coming regardless of whether there is an appetite for it beyond the niche. Manufacturers need to demonstrate technological progress and that will trickle down to benefit non 8k adopters. The push for more efficient codecs will help drive image quality for those with capped or poor bandwidths and will benefit streaming services and streaming to mobile devices.
 

Slinkywizard

Well-known Member
I have no objection to 8K, but also no reason to want it. If it's a standard feature when I upgrade my projector again in a few years, I will have it and that will be that. What I won't do is pay more for it. Like if the first 8K sequel model to my current projector is £25k BECAUSE it's 8K. Then no. That can **** off.
 

next010

Distinguished Member
8k is coming regardless of whether there is an appetite for it beyond the niche. Manufacturers need to demonstrate technological progress and that will trickle down to benefit non 8k adopters. The push for more efficient codecs will help drive image quality for those with capped or poor bandwidths and will benefit streaming services and streaming to mobile devices.

Its not a fate accompli, if nobody buys 8K then display makers will move away from it.

Thats why this "new" 8K specification I bet is just adding more bells and whistles in a desperate attempt to make it more appealing.

You would have better quality from upping the bitrate on a 4K video with a newer generation video codec than wasting that bitrate on 8K resolution.
 

Slinkywizard

Well-known Member
Its not a fate accompli, if nobody buys 8K then display makers will move away from it.

Thats why this "new" 8K specification I bet is just adding more bells and whistles in a desperate attempt to make it more appealing.

You would have better quality from upping the bitrate on a 4K video with a newer generation video codec than wasting that bitrate on 8K resolution.
Exactly. If you have four times the bitrate to improve picture quality, once you're at 4K you want to be putting that into less compressed video and, God forbid, lossless audio.
 

MahaRaja

Well-known Member
As I keep saying, 8K is just another gimmick by TV manufactures and their patrons on AV industry to push 8K down our throat. We're lead to believe by them that even though 8K content is not here, we just get great picture by upscaling HD and 4K, which is nonsense as owners have mentioned.
 

Slinkywizard

Well-known Member
As I keep saying, 8K is just another gimmick by TV manufactures and their patrons on AV industry to push 8K down our throat. We're lead to believe by them that even though 8K content is not here, we just get great picture by upscaling HD and 4K, which is nonsense as owners have mentioned.
Yep. Bull***t of the highest order.
 

THX1138UK

Well-known Member
Call me cynical, but I've seen too many times before what happens when broadcasters have more efficient encoders available... Rather than improving picture & audio quality, they just fill the available bandwidth / spectrum with even more channels of the lowest quality they can get away with. FreeSAT / Sky & Freeview are all guilty of this. Look at how few channels are actually broadcast in HD and Dolby Digital.

I know it's different with streaming services delivered via the internet, but often we see technology that should yield significant improvements for the customer, being used only to the benefit of the platform operators, despite us [their customers] paying a premium for the latest hardware.

In my option 8K is a step too far - I'm sure it has some niche uses, but mainstream video services don't need it. This is being driven purely by Samsung marketing. It's like pushing 5G, when not everyone can get a reliable 4G mobile service.


Regards,
James.
 

cobhc2008

Active Member
Obviously 8k is a natural evolution, but we're not anywhere near even 4k being the norm.

It always feels like the industry moves on to the next standard too quickly. For example there are still a lot of channels on Sky/Virgin with no HD counterparts and 4k is barely there for broadcast content. Some streaming services aren't even streaming multi channel audio...Discovery+ and Sky Q on demand spring to mind (at least for TV shows). And live sport on Amazon Prime being 25fps is ridiculous.

When 4k was getting going we were asking for higher bandwidth 1080p on streaming because it looked better than low bandwidth 4k and like multiple people here have said, I think most of us would prefer they use the new codecs to push 4k bandwidth up and work on better audio as well as helping those that still have slow internet connections to at least get 1080p at a decent bitrate.

I wish they'd get us to where we have at least 1080p DD+ on everything and 4k with lossless Atmos on most things across both broadcast and streaming and then work on 8k.

I guess the thing is, all this doesn't make them as much money as pushing the next big thing and being forwards compatible with it.
 

Slinkywizard

Well-known Member
Obviously 8k is a natural evolution, but we're not anywhere near even 4k being the norm.

It always feels like the industry moves on to the next standard too quickly. For example there are still a lot of channels on Sky/Virgin with no HD counterparts and 4k is barely there for broadcast content. Some streaming services aren't even streaming multi channel audio...Discovery+ and Sky Q on demand spring to mind (at least for TV shows). And live sport on Amazon Prime being 25fps is ridiculous.

When 4k was getting going we were asking for higher bandwidth 1080p on streaming because it looked better than low bandwidth 4k and like multiple people here have said, I think most of us would prefer they use the new codecs to push 4k bandwidth up and work on better audio as well as helping those that still have slow internet connections to at least get 1080p at a decent bitrate.

I wish they'd get us to where we have at least 1080p DD+ on everything and 4k with lossless Atmos on most things across both broadcast and streaming and then work on 8k.

I guess the thing is, all this doesn't make them as much money as pushing the next big thing and being forwards compatible with it.
Exactly. If you've watched Apple TV+ programmes like The Morning Show and See on a large enough screen, the 40Mbps Apple is pushing the 4K bandwidth up to is clearly visible on-screen. It matters. I don't think I'd even notice 8K via a highly compressed codec by comparioson.
 

CaptainJames

Well-known Member
Very telling I thought that the UHD HLG Demo material on BBC iPlayer is preceded by a statement that the footage is shown using "much higher bitrates than normal".

A tacit admission that their "efficient" low bit rate HD codecs are basically a load of old bollox.
 

Slinkywizard

Well-known Member
Very telling I thought that the UHD HLG Demo material on BBC iPlayer is preceded by a statement that the footage is shown using "much higher bitrates than normal".

A tacit admission that their "efficient" low bit rate HD codecs are basically a load of old bollox.
It's a good point and a good example. Another would be NOW TV. Even with 'Boost' that ensures some shows are shown in 'full-HD' (sorry, what year is this?), the codec they use, and its inadequately low bitrate cap mean there are always highly visible compression artefacts, and when scenes get busy the whole thing falls apart. Just like 4K, not all 'full-HD' is created equal. By contrast a 1080p movie bought from and streamed via iTunes/Apple Store can often look stunning, with none of those problems.
 

THX1138UK

Well-known Member
While I don't subscribe to Apple TV (not much content I'm interested in), Apple should be applauded for providing consistently high bit rates.

They are the only vendor who have upgraded previously purchased content at no additional charge. Years ago, I purchased a couple of movies via iTunes and downloaded them onto my iPad. When I looked in iTunes recently, Apple were offering me the 4K UHD versions.

Regards,
James.
 

THX1138UK

Well-known Member
Very telling I thought that the UHD HLG Demo material on BBC iPlayer is preceded by a statement that the footage is shown using "much higher bitrates than normal".

A tacit admission that their "efficient" low bit rate HD codecs are basically a load of old bollox.

From the BBC iPlayer FAQ:

To be classed as "true" high definition, we encode in at least 1280x720 resolution or 720p. We use h.264 with a bitrate of 3.2Mbps (going up to 5Mbps for best quality, should your connection allow) and 128kbps audio. This means that streaming programmes in HD quality will put demands on your network connection.

Standard Definition is any resolution which streams at lower than 720p. SD programmes usually require less bandwidth to stream and download and won't put as much demand on your network connection as HD programmes.

[I don't agree with their definition of SD - SD is 480i (US) or 576i UK/Europe] .


This is why iPlayer looks so bad 🙁.

On FreeSat, BBC One HD is encoded using h.264 with an average bitrate of 4.5 Mbps, and a maximum of 13.9 Mpbs. MPG Stereo encoded audio is 256 kb/s. The BBC aim to deliver high quality HD programming at no more than 10 Mbps.

BBC One HD is at least now broadcast in 1920 by 1080 (interlaced) - for many years it was only 1440 by 1080 (interlaced).

Regards,
James.
 

Kingchin

Active Member
As I keep saying, 8K is just another gimmick by TV manufactures and their patrons on AV industry to push 8K down our throat. We're lead to believe by them that even though 8K content is not here, we just get great picture by upscaling HD and 4K, which is nonsense as owners have mentioned.
TV manufacturers will tell consumers a lot of nonsense to sell tv's. The AI upscaling on 8k Samsung and LG tv's uses artificial digital noise reduction and edge enhancement so it's actually giving you a inaccurate picture with AI upscaling turned on.

But I do disagree that 8k as a whole is a gimmick apart from the artificial AI upscaling. I saw in person 2012 real 8k footage of the London Olympics filmed by Panasonic in the BBC studio's. On a massive screen and it was mind blowing so realistic.

That sold 8k for me in the future when most programmes, films, sports are eventually filmed using 8k cameras. And it will happen sooner than you think, some films are already filmed in 8k. Just needs Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime to start the ball rolling for 8k streaming. And Sky, BT will likely broadcast some sports in 8k in the future.
 

CaptainJames

Well-known Member
TV manufacturers will tell consumers a lot of nonsense to sell tv's. The AI upscaling on 8k Samsung and LG tv's uses artificial digital noise reduction and edge enhancement so it's actually giving you a inaccurate picture with AI upscaling turned on.

But I do disagree that 8k as a whole is a gimmick apart from the artificial AI upscaling. I saw in person 2012 real 8k footage of the London Olympics filmed by Panasonic in the BBC studio's. On a massive screen and it was mind blowing so realistic.

That sold 8k for me in the future when most programmes, films, sports are eventually filmed using 8k cameras. And it will happen sooner than you think, some films are already filmed in 8k. Just needs Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime to start the ball rolling for 8k streaming. And Sky, BT will likely broadcast some sports in 8k in the future.

I have no doubt genuine 8K native content on a massive screen is truly impressive. But lots of 8K content just isn't going to happen, not within the next decade and probably not ever.

Just look at where we are with 4K - HD was launched in the UK 15 years ago, and still we have SD broadcasts, with 4K broadcasts being very much the minority. Then there's the bandwidth issue - South Korea may be able to handle it, but most countries do not have Gigabit capability and again this will take many years to become mainstream.
 

atmoscinema

Active Member
Apple TV and Amazon Fire box show Amazon football @ 50fps.

I bet the 2012 8k footage wasn't compresssed.
 

cobhc2008

Active Member
Apple TV and Amazon Fire box show Amazon football @ 50fps.

I bet the 2012 8k footage wasn't compresssed.

Might be my Shield TV Pro that was the issue then. I'll have to check again.
 

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