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Newbie Questions for CRT

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by momomo, Oct 30, 2005.

  1. momomo

    momomo
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    If i get a CRT from Ebay what do I look for on viewing.

    Is it like looking at a car, I usually just kick the tyres a few times :D

    When the images from the Projector are posted like this:http://i5.ebayimg.com/03/i/05/49/51/14_1_b.JPG

    what do I look for:

    How long should I ask the seller to leave the thing on for.


    What about moving the thing will I be able to lump it in the back of a Vectra with the seats down.


    OK the big question how the hell do I lift an 80 KG to the ceiling. And then move it about to get the correct picture, this almost sounds impossible
     
  2. Chris Frost

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    Ebay isn't your only option. There are far less risky ways to buy good used CRT. Check out the Classifieds forum here. You'll find healthy CRTs for sale from genuine enthusiasts as they are upgrade. There are also a couple of dealers who regularly contribute their knowledge as well as sell products. Roland at B4 Projection is perhaps the best known here, but it doesn't take too much digging to find who else has product for sale.

    Viewing: a projector should be well up to temperature after an hour. Most would be ready for serious viewing in 30 minutes. However, if the linked image I saw was the best that that particular projector could produce I think I'd walk away. If I kicked the tyres of that car the bumper would fall off :rotfl:

    Transport: Vectra, no problem

    Lifting: lots of beefy friends or hire a Genie lift from HSS :thumbsup:
     
  3. Mad Mr H

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    OK.

    IF you are considering a projector then first of all very well done for picking the CRT type, pictures are without question excellent.

    Next you need to think about how much you want to spend.
    They range from about £500 to £25,000

    And think about your own skill level. DIY skills to mount it, there are many here who will help you with free info.

    Setup will differ for each brand of projector.

    I prefer the Seleco's and Barco's :thumbsup:


    Thought I would add a picture to help you work out where you might look to find your CRT Projector..... :rolleyes:

    Pic taken about 1 minute ago! :smashin:
     

    Attached Files:

  4. cosaw

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    Hi,

    A good thing about the Barcos and other modular projectors (don't know the Selecos modularity wise so can't comment but perhaps MrH or Mr Frost can confirm) is that you can remove most of the inards very easily in addition to the lenses for lifting purposes and getting it to the ceiling if you've got a limited no. of helping hands. Its a bit of extra time taking them to bits but I've humped my projector round like this and its much much easier and less risk of injury to your back!

    Again hoisting to the ceiling on some chains (in stripped down form if need be) seems like a good way if you've no one to help at the time.

    Simon
     
  5. momomo

    momomo
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    Good help guys Thanks. Just seen pitcures of hoists from HSS now why didnt i think of that.
     
  6. Mad Mr H

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    You wont need a hoist with a Seleco

    They are about half the size of a Barco 500/800/801 series.

    Similar to the 700 series (700/701/708)

    Now a Cine5 Barco - Thats heavy for its size and I mean real heavy!

    ALWAYS take the lenses off when you buy a pj - its ONE of the things that you should do to check its ok - first I would say is check it switches on! OH and produces a picture.....
     
  7. Barcoing Mad

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    If you have the budget, go for one of the respected resellers. There are two that leap to mind in the UK, both of whom offer intelligent, enthusiastic service and good kit.

    If you don't have the budget, be prepared to loose your money, especially if you have no technical knowledge of CRT PJs.

    If you enjoy the gamble and are happy to get on the learning curve, then perhaps that is part of the enjoyment for you.

    But whatever you do, hold off for a month or two and talk and read up.
     
  8. Mad Mr H

    Mad Mr H
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    Best thing is to mention the TWO respected sellers in the UK.

    They are of course

    www.crtprojectors.co.uk Henry and James

    and

    www.b4projection.co.uk Roland

    Im sure they will chip in if I get this wrong...

    Henry and James - Now Electrohome dealers, with some high end Barco pj's still available and loads of spares, and of course excellent knowledge.

    Roland - more of a mix of projectors from various brands all the way up to Barco 909's. And again excellent knowledge.


    I think this is a little bit harsh!
    "If you don't have the budget, be prepared to loose your money, especially if you have no technical knowledge of CRT PJs."

    We should encourage people down the CRT route in my opinion.

    Yes you cant just point and shoot them at a wall and get an immediate perfect picture but you can get close within a small amount of time.

    the CRT road is a long one, the good thing is that you can always learn and upgrade , that to me and many others makes it a journey where the destination changes as you grow with your equipment.

    If you are new to CRT then look back over the rest of your equipment. Your television, speakers, amps in fact even you car or even house......As you progressed in each area you upgraded or bought the next gadget or widget. Crt has the same sense of achievement along the way.[/warm feeling inside mode off]

    The lcd/dlp road is very short and to me not so much fun. It does have its place and I am not anti lcd/dlp at all.
     
  9. Barcoing Mad

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    Mr MadMrH...I wasn't sure about advertising out right!

    Maybe a little harsh, but you have to be very wary. There are a lot of cooked PJs out there. It is liking buying a car from the street rather than a reputable dealer.
     
  10. Mad Mr H

    Mad Mr H
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    Im sure the sellers wont mind the name drop.

    Im also sure most people here wont mind either.

    Thing is if the seller starts the post its wrong, if some one say "I bought x from y and it was great" then its fine - this leads to buyers being asked to promote.

    Funny thing is the post here from the MAIN MAN at avforums

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247984

    and then this as a comparison

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=251325

    where the thread gets closed but still gets 2 adverts in!!!

    FUNNY thing is as B4 are advertisers here so the posts with their name is allowed - so it was pointed out to me by the great MOD.

    I firmly believe that the ADS section needs some attention and better control from the mods. (THIS IS NOT A DIG) Too many people just bump the ads, this just makes the posts massive and turns into a fight to see who can keep their post at the top the longest..... I also think it should be divided up into sections as to be honest things get lost in the current system. just my thoughts and as I say not a dig as I think this forum is excellently set out otherwise. like the thumbnails when I post pictures and the fact that I can post a few pics in one post. if I am trying to explain something....
     
  11. BenCooke

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    Hello All, I too am new to the world of CRT projectors :)

    I have been reading this forum for the past few weeks along with the other recommended reading such as Curt Palme's excellent site. I have wanted a projector for some time, and even set up my 5.1 speaker configuration with the centre speaker at the opposite end of the room to my pc ready for a big screen (and have consiquently been listening to dialog from behind for 3 years now lol). I have always considered LCD/DLP projectors the way to go up until a few weeks ago, when I discovered that CRT prices were not at the £10,000 - £30,000 mark, but actually cheaper and better than the alternatives! Which is great for me as I can't afford the latest ThemeScene DLP thingie anyway, let alone replace a bulp on one.

    Many of my questions have already been answered by previous posts, but I have one that I haven't seen before:

    Is it possible/practical to ceiling mount a projector in a room behind the room you want to use as the theatre, and have it projecting through a hole in the wall? Would this create problems with the setup (i.e. remote wouldn't work, or could the remote receiver be extended into the room etc). I should be able to make holes in walls and create a mount etc (my dad is a carpenter, he seems to have unlimited knowledge on any DIY task).

    And is it possible to create a good setup on a real budget (still a student!) bearing in mind I already have a hi-spec computer which is also quiet (it is already in the room backing onto my bedroom along with most of the noisy/annoying flashy lights equipment) and am fairly technically minded (build my own, and most of my friends pc's etc and am doing a computing degree).
     
  12. Mad Mr H

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    What you talk about is called "rear projection" and yes very possible from 99% of crt pj's out there.

    Usually either switch the scan system round by switches OR some are software based.

    The Excellent thing about rear projection is the brightness - you are looking AT the image and NOT a reflected one in a Front projection system. I will try and find some rear projection pics...

    Hi spec on a budget - starting with a pc YES as you wont need to but a dvd player , scaler etc.

    You could also slowly extend you project to add control from the pc for lighting, projector control etc.

    WELCOME to AVFORUMS and enjoy your CRT journey.
    There are loads of people here who will be able to help you alon the way.

    You have already made the best choice buy looking into CRT.
     
  13. BenCooke

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    Thankyou for the warm welcome!

    Indeed rear projection sounds like the way to go, however I have found a snag in the plan, doh! According to the fount of all knowledge on the construction of our house (dad) the wall is a supporting wall, and wouldn't take kindly to the size of hole I would require (without some major work that is). He also pointed out when I told him the distance ratio to screen size that because of the size of the unit and the room size of the 'projection room' would result in a rather small screen, certainly not worthy of a CRT, shame.

    Sooo, I've been thinking, and how about still mounting the projector in the other room, but having the lenses literally poking through the wall into my room and front projecting onto a screen in my room. I would have to sit at the back of the room to prevent neck ache I suppose, but do you guys see any other issues with this? (Assuming I will be allowed a somewhat smaller hole in the wall :))
     
  14. Barcoing Mad

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    An eight feet wide picture requires a throw distance of about 12 feet.

    Sod's law with floor mounted CRT PJs is that the ideal viewing position is perched on the projector, hence the lure of ceiling mounting a thing which weighs 70kg and is less than easy to tweak upside down.

    Sit in front of the PJ, and you'll be perhaps too close to the screen.

    If you can knock through a big hole, then RP is tempting. You could fold the light path with a mirror. Plus tweaking, keeping things clean, noise reduction, ventilation all become easier.
     
  15. Chris Frost

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    Ben, your idea of a projection booth is nice but you need to remember that the lenses in a CRT projector don't have a zoom feature. This means you need to put the projector at the right distance for the screen size you plan to use.

    As a rough guide you start by measuring the screen width (L to r edge :thumbsup:, not the diagonal :nono: ). Take that number and multiply by 1.5 The result is the distance from the screen to the lenses of your projector. Do this for your screen size, then work out where the projector would fit in your room.

    If the answer you got means that the projector is next door then you can carry on with your plan. However, if you find that the projector needs to be in the same room as the screen then you should rethink your plans.

    Please avoid the temptation to fudge the install to fit. The usual follow-up questions are 'Can I fit different lenses' and 'Can I squeeze the picture down to fit'. The answer to both is yes, but lenses are expensive and squeezing the image will lose a lot of quality, knacker the tubes and make it more difficult to converge.

    Regards
     
  16. BenCooke

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    Chris, you have hit on an important point, I am aware of the adjustments availiable and that using them often puts stresses on the projector's tubes and they are certainly not a remidy for a bad install.
    I had planned to create a screen of the exact size projected, (I've been messing around with barco's lens program getting some rough figures) however since I cannot have a fixed screen (the room is rather multifunctional) I will need a 'blind' type retractible screen, can these be made to size and to budget? I saw another thread recently talking about an Ikea blind that could be used for the job, is this seriously an alternative?
    Thanks for the friendly advice :thumbsup: , your warnings are duely noted and I will make every effort to create a projector friendly install :) .
     
  17. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    It's all starting to sound very messy :cool:

    CRT projectors work best on 6,7 or 8ft screens. Optimum viewing distance is recommended at 1.5 - 2 x screen width. This means you are sitting either level with or slightly behind the projector. You can have a bigger screen, and you can sit closer - it's all up to you - but you'd generally be going for a CRT at the brighter and higher resolution end of the scale, not to mention more £££'s too. These really aren't the sort of pjs you fire at an IKEA blind :rolleyes:

    Everything you are talking about suggests you want a projector with a long throw lens. To me that screams DLP / LCD. I know a dealer with one of these for sale in black for half price. It's small, has a long throw lens (2.3 - 3.1 throw ratio), long lamp life, PS compatible, decent de-interlacer/scaler built-in. You could buy an off-the-shelf standard size pull down screen and be in business in under a day. Have a think about it. :)

    Regards
     
  18. BenCooke

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    I take your point. Trying to hide the projector in the other room does have its advantages, but as you have highlighted, the disadvantages do outweigh them. There is no problem ceiling mounting the projector in the 'viewing' room, it would produce a 6 foot screen (4:3) if mounted just under a foot away from the back wall. BTW I wasn't seriously thinking of using an Ikea screen, I was just wondering what you thought of the odd suggestion. Although the DLP route you suggested does sound good, especially at that price, my budget does not even stretch that far when including the cost of a screen etc, that would kinda be my overall budget (at the moment anyway). Also I did omit to say that I would be watching 4:3 content a lot of the time so a native 16:9 would be a problem. Thats not to say I am completely dismissing the option of a DLP/LCD solution, however I would like to give CRT projection a go as I am a real admirer of high image quality.
    Thank you for your help so far, as you can see I have lot to learn :).
     
  19. Chris Frost

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    Now were starting to make some progress! We've got an idea of your room size, screen size and a rough guide on budget.

    You're going to need a projector (with ceiling bracket if possible), a line doubler, a 6ft 4:3 screen and some cables. Let's see what we can do :D

    Projector - Barco 801s from chrisgeary @ £500
    Line doubler - iScan Pro from Ebay @ approx £100-£150
    6ft 4:3 scrn - price depends on man/elec age & make - approx £80-£200
    Cables: - 20 mtr VGA - £20-£40,
    1.5mtr component apprx £10,
    1.5mtr S-video apprx £5

    Change out of a grand! :thumbsup:

    or

    Seleco SVP-400HT crt projector c/w box & ceiling mounts, remote and photocopy manual.
    11m length of Canare component cable by Mark Grant
    1m length 15 pin D to RGBHV cable
    iScan Pro
    DRH 7ft wide manual pull down screen

    £700 for the lot.

    Chris Geary's Barco http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257196&referrerid=5037

    ian-500's Seleco 400 http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233708&referrerid=5037

    Away you go boy :thumbsup:
     
  20. BenCooke

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    Progress indeed! :thumbsup:
    I will be running this projector exclusively from an HTPC using DVD's and a DigiTV tuner card from Nebula Electronics (an excellent product by the way), and when the HD DVD/Blueray camps get their acts together some full HD content :). Am I right in saying that if I don't use other sources that I will not need a Line Doubler?
    Now for the screen, I had another idea earlier on besides having a pull down one, and it is this: Make a DIY screen out of MDF, about 1cm thick to prevent warping. Spray paint it with a matte white paint and create borders using blackout material. This screen would be double sided, one side 16:9 and the other 4:3 mask. I would attach strong hooks to the ceiling and screen so that it could be removed and hung on the long side wall of the room when not needed and turned round when a different aspect ratio is needed. The reason for not wanting a perminant screen is that there is a large window (with blackout blinds) at the end of the room where the screen would go. Now would this screen have any significant improvement/detramental effect compared to a good pull down screen such as the one ian is selling?
    Now to the all important projector :). I understand the seleco is a bit smaller and I see it has a more appealing look. However would the bigger tube size of the Barco yeald significantly better results? And is one more difficult to set up/maintain than the other?
    One other thing, I hear these things do not take kindly to transport of the courier kind so would be picking it up, Chris is about 3.5 hours away, anyone know how far Ian is from london/essex?
    Thanks again! :thumbsup:
     
  21. BenCooke

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  22. Mad Mr H

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    Its gone!

    But good to see you are thinking in the right direction.

    Ceiling mounted is not that hard to do.

    the Above mentined seleco is only about 35Kg, Barcos are more 70Kg...

    My honest opinion is that the Seleco will be easyier to set up than the Barco (and I have both!)

    EVERYTHING you really need from the remote....
     
  23. Chris Frost

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    AFAIK, for true HDTV compatibility (720p & 1080i) you need a projector capable of scanning upto 44Khz H.frequency and with an RGB bandwidth somewhere in the region of 75MHz+ .

    With a HTPC you don't need a doubler or scaler, quite correct.

    Painted screens - some people have had good results. I might even consider it myself as a permanent screen in a real budget install.

    I'm less convinced about the practicaility of man-handling a 6ft x 4.5ft piece of 1" MDF. Apart from the bulkiness and weight I just think it's going to get marked very easily as you move it. Do you really fancy repainting the surface each time it gets scuffed?

    Have a look at this by Fortean. Play the mpeg file, it's a really elegant solution to having a multiformat screen. http://www.4tn.net/homecinema/

    Regards
     
  24. Chris Frost

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    You need to know what happens to the light as it is reflected. How well does it focus on the surface, how much light is lost, is there a colour shift and if so is it even across the greyscale or is it biased to certain colours, how does the viewing angle affect colour balance...and on and on and on...?

    A half decent fabric screen will do a reasonable job of reflecting as much light back as evenly as possible without introducing hotspots and colour shifts. At the top of the quality tree you find Stewart screens. Superb colour balance & brilliant whites. That's why the cost what they do.

    If you are going to paint a screen then you should try to use a paint designed for the job. Goosystems ScreenGoo is perhaps the best known. £130 +VAT (about £153) from Nexnix. It's a bit different to Plastikote @ £6.99 a can from B&Q :D
     
  25. BenCooke

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    That multiformat screen looks great, way more practical than the painted board idea. I'll give it a go. Thanks :)
     
  26. BenCooke

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    Right, I have a crt projector :thumbsup: !
    Its a Barco Data 800, purchased from John Wilks, Top Bloke!
    Its already installed on my ceiling, I followed basically what had been done in John's install using threads that go through the ceiling and are bolted through some 2*4 planks (didn't have any metal) that lay across the rafters in the loft. Its pretty strong, I can hang from it. I have checked it very carefully with a spirit level, and it is all square with the screen etc and I have followed all the measurements from the barco lens program. I also have the screen set up, its a 6 foot manual 4:3 screen, gain 1.3. I also have a HTPC set up ready to go, it has a nice graphics card (Nvidia 7800GT) and it is capable of doing negative sync etc. and I have a cable to connect to port 4.

    I have started the installation, following the barco installation manual, and so far I have done focusing, raster positioning, angle adjustment, but it stops there and goes back to the adjust menu missing out the left right, top bottom focusing. All the adjustments I have made seem to be lost. What am I doing wrong? :confused:

    PS anyone in essex fancy poping over to give a hand, copious amounts of tea and snacks provided! :)
     
  27. Mad Mr H

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    Are you in the random access menu OR the guided menu..

    You need to do installation menu first then guided......

    what town are you in?
     
  28. Mad Mr H

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    missed this bit......

    YOU want to use port 3 for HTPC on an 800, much better .



    AND

    there is no top bottom left right focus!!!!!!
     
  29. BenCooke

    BenCooke
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    Ah Ha! :clap: Right I have managed to converge it using the guided menu. I also have a picture coming from my HTPC :thumbsup: , a shakey one, but one never-the-less ( 720*576 @ 60Hertz, negative sync polarity on horisontal pixels and vertical lines). I think I'll have to mess with it to find the best settings. BTW I live in brentwood, nr. J28 off the M25, I would really appreciate some advice from someone who has some knowledge on these machines, I'm a keen learner :).
     
  30. Mad Mr H

    Mad Mr H
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    if using htpc you should use a test pattern from the pc NOT the internal generated one

    try this

    http://freepctech.com/rode/004.shtml

    could you explain "shakey" a little more please
     

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