Newbie (kind of) seeks expert advice on speaker problems

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
OK, so tried this. Bias still to the left. What does that mean?!
Most recordings don’t always have the vocals in the center, expect mono recordings, but it seems you need to wait for the speaker stands to evaluate the soundstage.

Seems you have first reflection issues.
 

lindsayt

Active Member
If you swap the speaker cables coming out of your amplifier between left and right channels and the imbalance moves to the opposite side of the room, then that means that either the amplifier or the source or the speaker or interconnect cables have a fault. It's unlikely to be cables as they tend to either work or not work.

OK so if you've done your first bit of trouble shooting and the imbalance moved to the opposite side of the room, next thing to try is swapping the input from the source from left to right. If the imbalance swaps back when you do this then it's the source or the inteconnects or the recording.
We can pretty much eliminate the recording as you've had this issue for years.

Going back to when you swapped the speaker cables at the output of your amp, if the imbalance didn't move then it's either the speakers, or speaker cables or the room or your ears or a combination of those things. So the next thing to try would be swapping the speakers. If the imbalance moves with the speakers, it's the speakers.
 

Onlythesound

Well-known Member
Have your stands arrived yet? Also, I don’t think any of us asked you what make your amp is? Sorry if I missed that.
 

Jon Lyttle

Active Member
If you swap the speaker cables coming out of your amplifier between left and right channels and the imbalance moves to the opposite side of the room, then that means that either the amplifier or the source or the speaker or interconnect cables have a fault. It's unlikely to be cables as they tend to either work or not work.

OK so if you've done your first bit of trouble shooting and the imbalance moved to the opposite side of the room, next thing to try is swapping the input from the source from left to right. If the imbalance swaps back when you do this then it's the source or the inteconnects or the recording.
We can pretty much eliminate the recording as you've had this issue for years.

Going back to when you swapped the speaker cables at the output of your amp, if the imbalance didn't move then it's either the speakers, or speaker cables or the room or your ears or a combination of those things. So the next thing to try would be swapping the speakers. If the imbalance moves with the speakers, it's the speakers.
Still waiting on family to help swap cables. Might wait for the new stands first to see if that eliminates problem then swapping so all can be done at same time.

Then we can see where we are and I can seek more help if needed. I'm afraid my lack of knowledge on the subject (and possibly my ASD) mean that I don't fully understand your suggestions in paragraphs 1 and 2 but I'll come back once I've checked the other stuff if that's ok? (I'm fairly confident it's not the speakers as I've just got new ones and it's the same problem I had with the old ones.)

Really appreciate your input and help.
 

Jon Lyttle

Active Member
Have your stands arrived yet? Also, I don’t think any of us asked you what make your amp is? Sorry if I missed that.
Delayed, presumably due to Easter, and are due Friday. When family are free to set them up is another issue! Will try swapping speaker cables in amp at that time if still needed.

Amp is Marantz PM-6010 OSE. I'm a little suspicious of the amp because I can no longer use the phono stage as I get crackle and fizz when playing vinyl (and it's not my records!) but it is fine with CDs and it plays vinyl fine through AUX. input.

 

lindsayt

Active Member
If you look at the back of your amplifier, for the leads that go to your speakers, there should be red and black terminals labelled L and R. With the amplifier powered off, take the cable out of the L connections and put it in the R connections, keeping the red and the black the same. And at the same time take the cable out of the R connections and put it in the L connections, again keeping the red and the black the same.

Then power up your system, listen to the same recording before. Has the channel inbalance swapped over?

For the source test, there should be an interconnect cable that goes from the source to the amplifier. There will be a pair of connections on the amplifier for this cable. One for the left channel and one for the right channel. With the amplifier powered off (very important) unplug the left channel input into the amplifier and put it in the right channel input and at the same time unplug the right channel input and put it in the left channel input.

Then power up your system, listen to the same recording before. Has the channel inbalance swapped over?

It's all simple logical trouble shooting. Changing one thing at a time, seeing if it's changed anything and taking things from there.

It's the sort of thing that if I popped round to your house, I'd expect to have identified the source of the issue within a few minutes.
 

Jon Lyttle

Active Member
If you look at the back of your amplifier, for the leads that go to your speakers, there should be red and black terminals labelled L and R. With the amplifier powered off, take the cable out of the L connections and put it in the R connections, keeping the red and the black the same. And at the same time take the cable out of the R connections and put it in the L connections, again keeping the red and the black the same.

Then power up your system, listen to the same recording before. Has the channel inbalance swapped over?

For the source test, there should be an interconnect cable that goes from the source to the amplifier. There will be a pair of connections on the amplifier for this cable. One for the left channel and one for the right channel. With the amplifier powered off (very important) unplug the left channel input into the amplifier and put it in the right channel input and at the same time unplug the right channel input and put it in the left channel input.

Then power up your system, listen to the same recording before. Has the channel inbalance swapped over?

It's all simple logical trouble shooting. Changing one thing at a time, seeing if it's changed anything and taking things from there.

It's the sort of thing that if I popped round to your house, I'd expect to have identified the source of the issue within a few minutes.
OK. Thanks for that. Think I understand a bit better. I know my family are ok with the speaker switch on the amp as they both nodded when I mentioned it.

They'll probably understand your source test too. I'm quite simplistic and presumed that as problem persists whether I play vinyl, CDs or from my phone, that the other likely culprit was the amp. (And as I've stated in another post I'm suspicious of it due to issue with the phono stage.) So does this source test test my amp?

Yep, I'm sure you could identify it easily! That's why I appreciate your help and that of others on here. Some of us just don't get the technical stuff. (And if you do want to pop by to sort it, my son makes a mean cup of tea!)
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
You just swap the cables as mentioned above. Be sure to connect speaker cables in the correct manner after you done this. Plus to plus. Black to black. You need to this on both the speakers, amplifier. If not the sound well be out of phase. This should be audible straight away. Echo sounding almost, like the vocals don’t breath.

I don’t know if someone has mentioned this yet.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Probably not the case with the example mentioned above. If you are uncertain if the cables don’t work, take them with you to your local hifi dealer. Tell them your issues.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Still I think it’s the amplifier. Time for upgrade. If you enjoy the Marantz-sound, then PM6007 should be an excellent alternative for the QA speakers.
 

Flobs

Active Member
I'm a little suspicious of the amp because I can no longer use the phono stage as I get crackle and fizz when playing vinyl
if it's the amp if you twiddle turn the balance, tone or volume knobs you could hear crackling or the problem correcting itself.
Have you tried using the direct source option bypassing the preamp tonal controls and if so does the problem persist?
 

Jon Lyttle

Active Member
if it's the amp if you twiddle turn the balance, tone or volume knobs you could hear crackling or the problem correcting itself.
Have you tried using the direct source option bypassing the preamp tonal controls and if so does the problem persist?
Don't notice any crackling.

Yep, problem persists when I use direct source option - don't really know what that is or does!
 

Flobs

Active Member
direct source option - don't really know what that is or does!
Just cuts out the preamps tonal and balance controls. Shortens the circuit basically.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
An integrated amplifier has both pre amplifier, power amplifier in one cabinet. Then some swear to separates. Mono blocks.

In short pre amplifier converts weak electrical signal strong enough, then sends the signal to power amplifier. Power amplifier is what gives the speakers current. More tech savvy members who can explain better then me.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
OK! Don't really understand the whole preamps thing to be honest! I'm REALLY a newbie by nature if not by age!
How old is the amplifier? This an intriguing mystery...
 

DT79

Distinguished Member
I want to say I bought it around about 2003 - but I'm basing that on contemporary reviews as I can't really remember precisely.
Just a thought of something to try while waiting for the other things… do you tend to listen at low volumes? If so try turning the volume up and seeing if that changes the channel imbalance.

Analogue volume potentiometers can have poor channel balance at low volumes. Might be worth a try if you can’t take the other trouble shooting steps yet.
 

Jon Lyttle

Active Member
Just a thought of something to try while waiting for the other things… do you tend to listen at low volumes? If so try turning the volume up and seeing if that changes the channel imbalance.

Analogue volume potentiometers can have poor channel balance at low volumes. Might be worth a try if you can’t take the other trouble shooting steps yet.
Same bias no matter the volume.
 

Onlythesound

Well-known Member
Still I think it’s the amplifier. Time for upgrade. If you enjoy the Marantz-sound, then PM6007 should be an excellent alternative for the QA speakers.
It’s quite likely @Helix Hifi has a point. Your amp is an elderly gent and may need replacement. The PM 6007 is well thought of and a good match for the 3020i.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
If not new amplifier, then maybe send it to hifi service shop. Most likely it’s the volume control.

It’s attached by an axel. You could probably do this your self also. Just gently pull the volume control from the amplifier it self. Then spray of electronic spray. Many to get on amazon. Wd40. The latter might not be the best choice. I can’t remember the name, but as mentioned amazon has it.

Then let the amplifier air dry for couple hours. It could help, if the axel is dirty.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
If not several excellent new amplifiers out here. Do you want streaming amplifier or classic old fashioned amplifier?

Streaming amplifier might be Cyrus One, Bluesound. Ordinary classic amplifier without streaming could be Rega iO.
 

Jon Lyttle

Active Member
If not several excellent new amplifiers out here. Do you want streaming amplifier or classic old fashioned amplifier?

Streaming amplifier might be Cyrus One, Bluesound. Ordinary classic amplifier without streaming could be Rega iO.
These are just dreams at the moment unfortunately!
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Is it the Marantz PM7000 you got? If it’s the PM7200. Keep it! PM7200 has Class A switch. You can fry an egg on it😄.

The model number should be located on the on the amplifier it self. I seem to remember the early 2000’ amplifiers from Marantz were called PM7000, PM8000. At least I remember the PM7200. On of the best budget amplifiers ever. It’s legendary. And in mint condition you can get fair price for it.

Edit, I see it’s another model. Sorry about that.
 

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