1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Newbie connection logic bomb, pls help :-)

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Sword, Dec 9, 2004.

  1. Sword

    Sword
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    372
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +6
    HI, I'm new to the forum and wondered if you kind folk would give me some advice and I'll try and give some in return where I can :)

    apologies if I'm posting in the wrong area - please correct me or move (mods) if you think necessary ...

    got the following A/V kit but am getting WELL confused:

    plasma (with single scart input, no speakers, no tuner)
    pioneer receiver (vsx-c502) with speakers connected
    pioneer dvd hard disk recorder with tuner
    ntl (pile of pants) cable box with tuner (obviously)
    video with tuner
    N64

    all have SCART leads and all are connected in the following way:

    VCR, N64 and cable box to av receiver inputs
    av receiver output (which is also an input) to dvd recorder (line 1 input)
    dvd recorder output to screen
    (other scart on ntl box is connected to 2.4ghz video sender but probably not relevant here ...)

    Questions:
    1) Is this the optimum configuration?
    2) How do I record something on the DVDr while watching (and hearing!) something else?

    my head is spinning and the wifey is nagging me that we should have just stuck with the old tv we had "I told you ...." I simply REFUSE to accept that that is correct, lol.

    thanks ever so ever so much!
    Sword
     
  2. Sword

    Sword
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    372
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +6
    okay, I'll try and help myself ...

    If I want to do a timer record, maybe my best bet would be to record one of the DVDrecorder channels and then watch something on line1 coming in from the amp - ie the video tuner?

    However, if I just want to record what I'm watching and then switch to another channel, I dunno that this is possible is it as while I could hear another source, I wouldn't be able to actually see it ???

    Sword
     
  3. reservoir51

    reservoir51
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I'm sorry no one answered you sooner. The key to this is the number of inputs on the telly. Since there's only one input (SCART), then I'm positive that you won't be able to watch something whilst recording another on your DVD-R. Your best bet would be to connect the amp's output (either SCART or composite + phono left + phono right) to your TV's SCART input. You could then either daisy-chain the rest of your equipment to your amp (eg. NTL to VCR to DVD-R to amp) or connect each equipment separately to the amp. The latter would probably result in better sound and picture quality because of the more direct pathway of sound and visual signals. The other advantage of the latter is that you won't need to switch on everything to watch something (but your amp must always be on for you to watch telly).
    This may already be obvious, but when you connect your equipment, make sure you connect both sound and video cables. For this purpose, SCART would be best as it carries AV information. But if your amp does not have SCART, you can either buy a SCART to composite/phono cable, or get a SCART-S-Video cable to connect your equipment to the amp for video, and get RCA phono cables for the audio connections - most of your equipment ought to have phono plugs.

    It is indeed strange that your plasma TV only has 1 input. All the above problems can be circumvented if it has other connections - like composite and phono plugs. If it does, then you'll be able to watch something and record something different simultaneously. If this is the case and you need further help, let me know.

    Regards,
    reservoir51
     
  4. Sword

    Sword
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    372
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +6
    thanks res - I really appreciate it.

    The plasma (panasonic PHD7 series 42") comes with NO inputs (except PC) but I bought one scart. Maybe the thing I need to do is buy another scart input for it.

    But even if I had two scarts, none of the other devices have two outputs on them (except the NTL box). Wouldn't this still leave me in the same position?

    :)
    thanks,
    Sword
     
  5. reservoir51

    reservoir51
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Sword, having read some online details, I think your particular model of plasma comes with a fixed terminal board and three empty multi-function slots for you to put separate terminal boards. I'm not sure what fixed terminal board came with your plasma but I would have thought it would be a SCART terminal board. If there's only one SCART slot on that board, then I'm afraid at present your telly can only take one input (ideally from your amplifier). Have a look at that fixed terminal board, and see if there are any other inputs eg. phono (yellow, red and white plugs), etc.

    If you want your plasma to have more inputs, you can purchase specific terminal boards for your needs and insert them into any of the empty slots. For example, you can buy a SCART/RGB to component terminal board or a composite/S-video/component video board. You can get these online (have a browse through the forum - several online shops have been recommended) or in plasma shops. They are not cheap (for example, the SCART/RGB to component converter board costs £130-150). Alternatively, you can purchase more SCART terminal boards to allow your telly to accept more inputs.

    Your other equipment doesn't need to have two SCART outputs on them. You only need one for a connection - SCART carries with it signals for input and output, so as long as the SCART terminal on the equipment can send and receive signals, then one SCART terminal is sufficient. For equipment that doesn't have a SCART terminal (like most amps), you can still connect it to the SCART on your plasma using a SCART-composite+phono or SCART-S-video cables, or if you have a SCART/RGB-component converter terminal board, then you can connect the amp to your plasma using component cables - this will produce the best quality of images out of all the connections.

    Hope that helps.

    Regards,
    reservoir51
     
  6. Sword

    Sword
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    372
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +6
    Truly helpful reply - thanks :)

    The terminal board that comes fitted is a PC input board.

    I've had another idea though ...

    the amp has four SCART inputs and two are also outputs. These are labelled:
    TV/DVDr (in/out)
    DVD (in)
    Video (in/out)
    STB (in)

    So,

    Leave the DVDrecorder connected to the TV/DVDR input/output
    Connect the TV to the Video input/output
    connect the video recorder to the DVD input (never record on this so only need signal out)
    connect the STB to the STB input.

    Then I should be able to set the dvd recorder to do some recording from its own tuner - and switch the amp to "DVD".

    Then, use the video tuner to watch something different - and the video tuner will be displaying pictures to the TV and sound to the speakers - while the dvdr just sites and records to itself.

    Questions:
    When I connect the dvdr to the amp, should I connect it to the line-in scart or the line-out scart - or both (which would blow my plans somewhat)?
    as the STB has two SCARTS out, is there any point in connecting it to the Line-in on the DVDr also - or just leave it connected to the av/receiver?

    phew.

    Thanks,
    Sword
     
  7. reservoir51

    reservoir51
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Your plan sounds good. But you need to make sure that your Pioneer receiver is able to receive audio and visual signals (from 'input' terminal) whilst simultaneously sending the same AV signals to any equipment connected to any of its 'output' terminals. For instance :

    Assuming that you've set up the same connections in your previous message, if you're watching telly using your VCR as your source :

    1) Switch your amp onto 'DVD' (i.e. your VCR terminal on the amp, which is 'in' only)

    2) All your equipment connected to the amp's 'out' terminals (including the in/out SCARTS for your TV and DVD-R) will receive your VCR's signals via the amp. So, to watch the VCR images on your TV, just switch your TV onto the appropriate AV channel - this shouldn't be difficult as your TV currently only has 1 terminal! Similarly, if you switch your DVD-R onto the appropriate channel connected to the amp, you can record your VCR programmes onto your DVD-R.

    Having owned a Pioneer receiver in the past, I think all Pioneer models should be able to do this. As a matter of fact, most amps ought to be able to do this!

    In answer to your questions :

    1) If your DVD-R has separate 'line-in' and 'line-out' SCARTs, then you'll need to connect each separately to the amp. The same principle about watching DVDs and recording onto your DVD-R still applies - just select the appropriate AV channel on your DVD-R. For instance, if you want to record something from the amp (eg. from TV, VCR or a MiniDV connected to your amp) select the 'line-in' channel, and select 'line-out' to send AV signals to the amp (eg. watching DVDs). If you've run out of SCART terminals on your amp, you could do two things. One is to daisy-chain the STB straight to the VCR via SCART (if your VCR has two SCART terminals - most do!) and forget the STB's connection to the amp - it's virtually the same, except that you'll need to switch on your VCR whenever you're watching your STB. Just switch onto the VCR's channel for this VCR/STB SCART connection and turn on the VCR channel on the amp. The other advantage of this option is that you can record an STB programme onto your VCR while you're watching something different (i.e. films on your DVD or programmes from your telly's aerial). But for this to apply, make sure that your VCR's SCART terminal connected to the STB is an 'in' terminal. This option theoretically may result in a slight deterioriation in your STB's picture quality as compared to a direct connection between the STB and the amp, but I really doubt it. Alternatively, you could buy a master SCART adapter/controller (make sure it's a good quality one though!). You could connect the 'line-in' and 'line-out' SCARTs of your DVD-R to this controller, and connect this controller to your amp's designated SCART terminal for your DVD-R (i.e. in/out). The same principle about recording/watching DVDs still apply as above.

    Finally, as for connecting your STB directly to your DVD-R, it might be useful if you want to record something from the STB onto the DVD-R whilst watching something different on the VCR or telly. Since the DVD-R's tuner is unable to receive satellite/cable channels on its own, this connection may be useful for this purpose.

    Regards,
    reservoir51
     
  8. Sword

    Sword
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    372
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +6
    reservoir51, you must have some kind of brain to get my setup in your head when its in front of me and I'm still getting confused, lol! Respect!

    Anyway, to clarify, I'm also using a coax aerial to take the terrestial signal (and Channel 6 = "sky") from the NTL STB to the vcr and dvdr ... Is there any point therefore in using the SCART outputs of the STB?

    I'm assuming that my dvdr "line-in" also sends audio/video out as this must be the only way I can currently hear what's on the dvdr when I switch the amp to dvdr - as the dvdr's output is going to the telly ...

    So .... under the new regime, I could theorietically record BBC1 on my dvdr while be watching and listening to BBC2 from the vcr's tuner (sent to the DVD input of the amp) so long as I press the DVD button on the amp. I'm assuming that whatever signal is chosen for amp input is also sent to both of the amp SCART outputs.

    On a related point, I have a "vcr backup" scart cable bought from techtronics with my dvdr which I wanted to use (seriously!) to put the kids vids on dvd then store the vhs cassettes in the loft. At the moment this lead is connecting the amp to the dvdr line-in and a consequence of this is that front row movies (pay per view) no longer say "can't record" when I try to record them - even if I try on "channel 6" as opposed to line1. Is this pure coincidence or should they never say "can't record" - I'm sure I've seen this when trying to record a while back... I can understand why the SCART lead would change things if recording from line1 but can't understand why it would change things when recording from channel 6 (ie coax input)...

    Sadly though, I'll have no input for the N64 if I now put the vcr there - unless of course I connect the n64 to the line-in of the vcr and change channel to lin-in on that device when I want to play it ...

    I think maybe that the amp wasn't designed for TWO recording devices - ie you either use a dvdr and put your screen from the vcr output - or you use a vcr and put your screen on the dvdr/tv output.

    However, as I don't envisage using the vcr to record, I hope I'll be okay (tho I hope I can still control the vcr from the amp controller as I could before ....)

    phew!

    thanks mate,
    Sword
     
  9. reservoir51

    reservoir51
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Sword,

    1) "Anyway, to clarify, I'm also using a coax aerial to take the terrestial signal (and Channel 6 = "sky") from the NTL STB to the vcr and dvdr ... Is there any point therefore in using the SCART outputs of the STB?"

    It depends on the quality of signals from your coax aerial on VCR/DVD-R. I've got an NTL STB as well and although I've got a coax aerial from the STB connected to my VCR, I find that the quality of images and sound is somewhat better if I route the signals from the STB to the VCR via SCART and then select the appropriate channel for the connection on the VCR. You can compare and then decide for yourself. If you're a keen environmentalist and want to do your bit to save energy, you could use the coax aerial connection instead of the SCART as it will allow you to watch your VCR/DVD-R without actually switching on the STB, but the STB must be in standby mode.

    2) "dvdr "line-in" also sends audio/video out as this must be the only way I can currently hear what's on the dvdr when I switch the amp to dvdr - as the dvdr's output is going to the telly ..."

    You'll have to check your DVD-R's manual to confirm this, but I'd have thought 'line-in' means 'in' only. But then again as I said previously, SCART carries in/out signals as long as the terminals allow it, so there you go.

    3) "I'm assuming that whatever signal is chosen for amp input is also sent to both of the amp SCART outputs."

    That's correct, for most amps.

    4) "At the moment this lead is connecting the amp to the dvdr line-in and a consequence of this is that front row movies (pay per view) no longer say "can't record" when I try to record them - even if I try on "channel 6" as opposed to line1. Is this pure coincidence or should they never say "can't record" - I'm sure I've seen this when trying to record a while back... I can understand why the SCART lead would change things if recording from line1 but can't understand why it would change things when recording from channel 6 (ie coax input)..."

    I don't know about PPV programmes, because I hardly use the channel (!), but are you able to record PPV programmes either on your VCR or DVD-R? I'd have thought those programmes are copy-protected much in the same way as DVD films are. If you still can't record (for instance, the sound and images come out blurry and distorted during playback), then the 'can't record' flag is irrelevant.

    5) "I think maybe that the amp wasn't designed for TWO recording devices - ie you either use a dvdr and put your screen from the vcr output - or you use a vcr and put your screen on the dvdr/tv output."

    No, your amp should be able to handle multiple recording devices connected to it. The ability of connected equipment to record depends on the amp's ability to send out signals simultaneously (which in your case, is via the two SCART terminals on your amp designated as 'out'). As long as those signals are being sent outwards (which most amps should), any equipment connected to those 'out' terminals should be able to record them. But note that the signals going out will be identical since this depends on your amp's 'input' source, which is singular for most amps. This may be useful if you've got two monitors in different room - with both monitors connected to the amp, you get the same images in each. Or, you can record something on the telly using the DVD-R and VCR simultaneously (don't know why you would want to do that though!). Some amps (like my Yamaha DSP-AX750) will allow a video signal from a different source to be displayed while listening to a dedicated audio source (eg. CDs).

    6) "However, as I don't envisage using the vcr to record, I hope I'll be okay (tho I hope I can still control the vcr from the amp controller as I could before ....)"

    This shouldn't be a problem. You should be able to use your VCR to record if you wanted to using the connections you've outlined.

    Regards,
    reservoir51
     
  10. Sword

    Sword
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    372
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +6
    DVDr line-in: I'm assuming that this HAS to be in/out as it is the only means by which the dvdr is connected to the amp and when I switch to DVDr on the amp, I can hear what is being played on the DVDr ... Will have to check otherwise this could be a show-stopper ...

    Location of VCR: Maybe I'm being confusing here as I should have said that the amp wasn't designed for two recording devices AND a tv output (which would make it 3 effectively).

    This is why I'm putting my VCR onto the DVD amp input - which isn't in/out and will mean that I don't think I'll be able to record on the VCR unless I only want to record from the VCR's tv tuner (or if I want to record my N64 gaming connected to its line1 input, lol).

    I've been looking around for SCART switchers just in case. What would you reckon to this?

    http://www.gameseek.co.uk/productdetail/Xbox156um9709q1uepap/

    Do you work in A/V for a living or are you just an expert enthusiast?!

    tvm,
    Sword
     
  11. reservoir51

    reservoir51
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yes, I see what you mean now. What you've mentioned so far are the SCART connections on your amp. What about phono connections? Most amps will have phono (composite and RCA audio) 'out' as well. You could hook up your N64 that way (i.e. from N64 to amp) and free your VCR's 'in' SCART terminal for your amp. Why would you need to record your N64 games on your VCR anyway? Not that I would know since I'm not an avid video gamer. Your amp must have other analogue in/out terminals apart from SCART.

    Your master SCART controller from Gameseek sounds good, although I think if you look around (including this forum) you might find it cheaper elsewhere.

    Nope I don't work in AV for a living nor am I an expert, merely someone who's a busybody!

    Regards,
    reservoir51
     
  12. Sword

    Sword
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    372
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +6
    busy body? Nope - you're a helpfulbody!

    The amp only has SCART connections: see the back panel in pdf here:

    http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/downloa...094719085659vsxc502rear.pdf&method=attachment

    ... and its main product page:
    http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_detail.jsp?product_id=9188&taxonomy_id=62-98

    Thing is, I wanted an amp that was slimline and that would also allow me to control many of my pioneer dvdr functions from the same controller and this appeared to do the trick (dedicated pioneer dvdr buttons etc) ....

    BTW, I don't want to record my n64 games, its just that the vcr line-in is the only scart left open to me!

    So my amp's new setup will look like:

    amp dvdr/TV in/out SCART -----------> dvdr line1 (which I hope is in/out)
    amp stb in -------------> NTL STB
    amp DVD in ---------------> VCR line out
    amp VCR in/out ---------------> display

    I don't like SCART but all of my components have it :-(

    It all looks so obvious now - thanks for your kind help, but please feel free to tell me if I'm still being a prat, lol.

    Sword
     
  13. reservoir51

    reservoir51
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Sword, it looks like you've got it sorted. The VCR issue isn't a big deal anyway as not many people record using VHS nowadays, especially when you've got DVD-R. But if you do decide to record STB programmes onto VCR, you may want to connect the two via SCART, and connect your N64 using phono to whatever equipment that has phono 'in' (VCR? DVD-R? STB?) - unless of course if your N64 doesn't have phono! Your DVD-R should definitely have phono 'in', just as your VCR and STB, but I'm not sure about your N64, although it should have one!

    Note that a master SCART controller does not increase the number of 'in' terminals on your amp. A controller will only allow one signal going out or into the amp (i.e. only acting as a switch). It's only useful if you run out of SCART connections and need a platform to increase your connection options.

    Also, note that for some amps or any AV equipment for that matter that has in/out terminals, sometimes (not always) you may need to specify whether you want the signal to go in or out of the terminals. If anything doesn't work, be sure to check the terminal options out so that the proper option is selected.

    Have fun!

    Regards,
    reservoir51
     
  14. Sword

    Sword
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    372
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +6
    BINGO!

    Res, you are da man! Its all working just great now :)

    thanks,
    Sword
     
  15. reservoir51

    reservoir51
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hey congratulations. By the way, your N64 does have phono AV output plugs (RCA audio and composite video), and your Pioneer receiver has two phono AV input plugs (one front and one back). The audio plugs are coloured red and white and the composite video is yellow. So, if you wanted, you could connect your N64 via phono to your amp and free up your VCR's other 'in' SCART terminal - who knows, you may want to add a miniDV video camera to your system!

    Regards,
    reservoir51
     

Share This Page

Loading...