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New Toshiba models

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by muzza1uk, Oct 25, 2004.

  1. muzza1uk

    muzza1uk
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    Hello all, is there anyone out there who can give me a link for the new Toshiba DVD Rec/HDD combis coming our way. I've been thinking about
    getting the XS 32 Toshiba for a while but always seem to buy electronics
    just as they're being replaced but before the old models price comes down.

    Thanks in advance,

    Muzza1 :thumbsup:
     
  2. grumpy42

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  3. Rasczak

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    The next UK model will the DR3 (non-HDD model) which is starting to become available now. The next HDD/DVDR model will be the RDXS34 due in March 05 and will have DVD-RW, 250GB HDD and Freeview tuner. DVD-RW support is less important in Japan/US where DVD-RAM is the dominant home recording format.
     
  4. muzza1uk

    muzza1uk
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    Thanks Guys, I thought the XS34 had been shelved, think this is the one I want, I would go for the Panny but I really want the -RW ability. Do you know if the XS34 will be next gen, i.e. will it be able to match the Pannys longer Hi-Res but rates ?
    :smashin:
     
  5. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    The RDXS33 was cancelled. The RDXS34 is still on for next March. Most of the details remain restricted at present. But we know it will have a DVB with EPG and 250GB HDD and probably also a HDD. No other info as of yet.
     
  6. grumpy42

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    What is up with that. We get screwed again :mad:

    Ummm.... No.... Can't speak for Japan, but here (Canada) -RW (and +RW) recorders and -RW compatible players are much more prevalent. As far as I am concernted, the RAM format is a dead format used primarily for serious archival. I wish that manufacturers would get with the program and drop RAM support. Who really needs 100,000 rewrites. It is unlikely that a disc will survive that much constant use.
     
  7. Rasczak

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    Grumpy, I assume from your 'comments' about the UK HX1000/900 you are a European commenting on the US situation. Or you are a European working in the Canada? Whatever DVD-RAM is certainly the biggest set-top recording format in the US (I would have thought Canada as well but as I have never seen stats or been to Canada other than for a 1 night stopover I won't comment). Refer to the recent announcements by the RAMPG which state DVD-RAM is by far the leading format. Now I don't suggest for a second that the RAMPG is independent :) but the fact that Sony has not contested their figures suggests that the basis of their press release is true. In addition just consult the opionions of the US version of this forum: www.avsforums.com if you require more proof.

    Now I appreciate it that DVD-RAM has picked up it's fair share of haters (hello Phelings :) )- but give the format it's due - as set-top recorder goes it currently holds the Number 1 spot - hence the reason DVD-RW support is considered less important in the US and Japan.

    Grumpy :) the issues are a bit more complex than than that - why not do some research and discover all the benefits? The large number of re-writes on DVD-RAM, for example, can only be seen as a good thing. For example as much media will fail after 10% of it's lifespan I would rather have 10,000 rewrites than 100. There is also the issue of caddies, the fact that only RAM allows you to mix media types etc etc. I am going to stop there though - I have no intention of trying to convince you DVD-RAM is a good thing - it is. Whether you believe that or not is your lookout.
     
  8. grumpy42

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    I'm a Canadian living in Canada commenting on everything :)

    You also have to consider that DVD-RAM is just not used for storing video, but is a highly desirable backup medium. DVD-RAM is replacing tape backup as a means of archiving large amounts of data. Thus, many of the consumers of DVD-RAM are large corporations and the government. But, when it comes to the average consumer, I believe that -rw/+rw are much more popular formats (I do not give much credability to statistics). Just a cursory look at a couple of websites reveals that there are FAR more -rw/+rw drives available for computers. Also most consumer DVD players will play -R/RW discs.

    Been there... Frankly, I find this forum to be a little more informative since you guys seem to get all of the cool toys earlier. Also, I can get all worked up over the cool stuff that you get, but never makes it to North America. :mad:

    Add me to that list :)

    That reasoning is a lilttle flawed. Sure many manufactures have chosen to support DVD-RAM (in set-top recorders) even though most set-top player are incapable of reading DVD-RAM (especially older players). This is an example of manufactures trying to change the marketplace by sheer force.

    For me, compatibility is the most important issue. 1000 rewrites gives me three years of writing (assuming one write per day). That seems just fine for a set-top recorder (especially one with a HDD). Other advantages are really moot with respect to set-top recorders. The primary uses of such rewritable media (in my opinion) is to transfer recorded content to a computer for further editing or to use it in another player (lend it to a friend, watch it in another room). Compatibily should be the chief concern.

    Quite frankly, I had thought that DVD-RAM had all but died until I went to purchase a DVD recorder. DVD-RAM equipped computers are quite rare, and there are few DVD players that can play DVD-RAM. Also, DVD-RAM media is more expensive than its competitors. I am not arguing that DVD-RAM does not have its place - its place is just not in set-top recorders.

    RAM failed horribly in the consumer computer market and now companies such as Panasonic are using set-top recorders to increase the popularity of the RAM format - which Panasonic has a financial interest in.

    I just did a quick search on one of my favorite online retailers. Out of 92 computer DVD burners, 5 support DVD-RAM.
     
  9. Oldjim

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    This could be exactly what I am waiting for. Can you clarify - does it actually have DVD write capability as well as the HDD and is there any indication whether it will have twin tuners
     
  10. Rasczak

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    Yes - it will be a DVD-RAM, DVD-RW and DVD-R recorder like all of Toshiba's current UK models.

    Toshiba have only released basic info on the recorder so far - a 250GB HDD is rumoured but, I should imagine, the size is subject to change. There will be a HDD obviously. HDMI connection is rumoured and there is no info on whether it will be single or dual tuners - I would have thought the former but Toshiba have just released a dual tuner Japanese model...
     
  11. Oldjim

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    I have just seen a comment in another forum that most Freeview DVD recorders wont work off analogue input as they don't include the tuner (the latest Inverto unit appears to be an exception to this). Is this likely to be the case with the Toshiba.
    Does this mean that they won't record from a VHS input.
    If this is the case presumably it will stop me backing up my vhs tapes to dvd and dumping the vhs recorder.
    Edit - there are two questions here -
    1 - will it record from analogue TV (almost certainly the case)
    2 - has it got a scart rgb input from a VHS recorder Note that the Panasonic TUCTH100 appears, from the initial specs, to be missing an RGB input scart for vhs output.
     
  12. tabatha

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    I think it most unlikely that you would only to be able to record from the DTT tuner. There would be little use for a machine that did not have analogue inputs. Many people will be using machines not only for recording TV programs but also for archiving recordings made on other analogue machines and/or Camcorders etc.
     
  13. OARDVD

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    Compatibility is the most important issue for you. Fine (I think it's quite important too). But I disagree when you say that DVD RAM does not have its uses in set top recorders. It depends on the user's requirements – not everyone needs compatibility. It’s perfect for multiple record / watch / erase cycles. It’s inherently reliable, capable of 100 000 rewrites, and operates like a small hard drive. It records in VR mode so it allows good editing which always gives you back all of the space when you delete/partial delete. Once formatted it usually won’t require formatting again (unlike the other rewritable formats which once finalised, need to be reformatted before they can be reused). It also supports multimedia. For example a DVD RAM disc can simultaneously contain video programmes (recorded on a Panasonic recorder, say) and any other types of file (from a PC). On top of this it supports Timeslip since DVD RAM was 2x speed from the start. If you don’t often require compatibility and you can’t run to the price of an HDD equipped unit, it’s ideal. All RAM set top recorders have at least one additional ‘compatible’ format anyway.
     
  14. grumpy42

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    2x -RW media supports VR mode and timeslip.

    I admit that RAM may have a place in non-HDD recorders; however, I would still argue that 1000 rewrites is more than adequate and that the disc would probably not survive that much constant use. Also, multiformat drives are cheap. There is no reason that companies would not support multiple rewritable formats unless they have a financial interest in the success of a particular media.
     
  15. Rasczak

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    ...but there is rather more to it than just the number of re-writes Grumpy. The existance of caddies, no need to finalise and the ability to mix media types are what make DVD-RAM desirable. The re-writes issue is icing on the cake: and a useful benefit given that a sizeable proportion of media is only likely to get to 10% of it's lifespan...
     
  16. Rasczak

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    RGB output is not possible from VHS.
     
  17. OARDVD

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    Yes I know. I was pointing out that DVD RAM has been capable of Timeslip since the first set top recorders since it started as 2x speed. -RW was initially 1x speed and was not capable of Timeslip until comparatively recently.


    Yes, I used to think so until somebody pointed out to me that anytime you update virtually ANYTHING on the disc, then the TOC is changed. The TOC is located in a specific physical region on a +RW disc, or a –RW disc in Video mode, and so one particular part tends to get hammered much more than the data section. So if you use the same disc regularly, 1000 rewrites starts to look not quite so impressive. I understand that –RW in VR mode has special algorithms to spread the TOC round the disc a bit more, thereby lengthening the disc’s life.
     
  18. grumpy42

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    Caddies - who cares....Perhaps useful for people who do not know how to handle DVDs
    Finalizing - you do not need to finalize a -RW disk to play it in the originating recorder, and since DVD-RAM is not that compatible this is really a moot point. So you have to finalize a -RW disk to play it in other equipment. At least it CAN be played in other equipment!
    Mix media types - Ummm... DVD recorder... All I want is to record and share DVD video - which is the WHOLE POINT!

    I am not saying that RAM should be eliminated, but there is no reason why a second, more compatible, recordable format can't be supported. As I said, RAM is useful in non-HDD recorders, but there is still no reason why -RW cannot be supported in addition to RAM.
     
  19. Rasczak

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    People with kids, pets etc etc

    This isn't a moot point at all - for one thing many users use DVD-RAM to transfer there PC. And DVD-RAM compatibility is quite high on PCs - currently it is found in around 65% of OEM sales. LG, Toshiba, Samsung, Pioneer - four of the major OEM producers all support DVD-RAM reading. The only major suppliers not to support it are Sony and LiteOn - the latter are adding it to next years range (read/write support).

    In addition for those who do have DVD-RAM compatible players it is a benefit not to finalise. Just because you don't appreciate the advantage DVD-RAM brings does not mean it is not a real world benefit Grumpy!

    In which case you don't use DVD-RAM. If on the other hand you want a high integrity backup medium for your Video and drag and drop file handling then DVD-RAM is an ideal media.
     
  20. grumpy42

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    Ummm... I would argue that...

    Finalizing - takes two minutes - I do not consider lack of finalizing a real advantage.
    Furthermore, the "benefits" are not so great as to warrant having RAM as the only rewritable format.

    Again, we are talking about DVD recorders here. Their primary function to store DVD-video.

    Still you are missing thing point. I am not saying drop RAM support - Just give us the option of using an alternative rewritable media. Having more options is generally a good thing...
     
  21. Rasczak

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    Well you can argue that if you like. But it will not alter the reality that LG and Pioneer alone are major desktop OEM suppliers. In the notebook market Toshiba drives are the leading OEM source - again all are DVD-RAM compatible. And Samsung rates 6th or 7th on the OEM suppliers list. Once LiteOn add DVD-RAM next year the amount of DVD-RAM compatible PCs being sold will be nearer to 85%.

    You may not - but others do. There is a wide percentage of the population that simply does not understand the concept. Even those that do tend to find having to finalise and then unfinalise annoying/inconvienant. DVD-RAM keeps it simple.

    Well as you can get machines that support both (Samsung, Toshiba, JVC) people who want this are catered for. I have no need for DVD-RW in my machine - and from those I have spoken to with Pioneers/Toshibas - most still use DVD-R as opposed to DVD-RW. With a few noteable exceptions DVD-RW is something that looks essential to those without DVD recorders - but it isn't such an issue for real world users.
     
  22. SIP

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    When I bought my DVD recorder, I also pondered on the compatibility issue of RAM. Having Four other players in my home that do not support RAM, I thought I would get my fingers burned with this format. NOT SO.
    People talk about RAM as being the nonconformist of DVD, and that the thought of not being able to play their recordings in other machines is the end of the world. Yet these same people seem hell bent on having mass capacity HDD/DVDR combis. Well, if you need a storage device that is totally incomplatible with anything on the market, then look no further than HDD. You certainly can't record a couple of hours on that, and take it to your mates house or into another room for viewing - you have to do the same with it as you have to do with RAM ... burn it to another format!!!
    An HDD will cost you a minimum of £100 extra on a DVDR, yet an all format drive for PC will probably cost around £45 - Big Difference. Plus all the extras that you can add and do to your final DVD is massive via the PC route compared to what you can do when transfering your HDD drive content to a DVDR.
    Grumpy,you are correct when you say that RAM is not the most compatible of formats.....but it is the most versatile of any format.
    It is obvious that people who knock RAM, have not the slightest comprehension of the format.......OK Grumpy, RAM may not "float your boat", but dont try to claim that it has sunk, when you clearly have never ridden it.
     
  23. grumpy42

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    My point is still that there is no reason not to support an additional rewritable format. I still contend that the benefits of RAM are minimal when talking about DVD recorders. People like Rasczak and SIP may like RAM and never consider using RW. I on the other hand have no use for RAM as nothing I own is capable of reading the format. There are clearly benefits for both - why not support both.

    It is true that there are manufacturers that support RW, but I see no reason why anyone supporting DVD-R cannot also support RW. I guess, I am just a little frustrated with the arbitrary limitations that many of these machines have - no HS dub of editted content, no title divide function, no RW support, limited event timers, etc.

    Sony, Plextor, NEC, Liteon, Asus, etc.
    RAM was virtually a dead format prior to set top DVD recorders. It was only used for very specific applications prior to that. I own a Panasonic DVD player that is a couple of years old and it does not support RAM, however, now all Panasonic players support RAM instead of RW. Panasonic is clearly a major proponent of RAM and has a financial interest in RAMs success. Panasonic is using set top recorders as a means to shove RAM down the consumers' collective throats.

    You can go to your church and I will go to mine - I would just like to have a church to go to...
     
  24. Rasczak

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    Rubbish - it was the first DVD recordable format and had a remarkably wide industry uptake for a new format. Indeed DVD-RAM only drives were quite common during the early days of set-top recording. I'm sure many members here remember owning the likes of the LF306 with the E20 for example...

    No more so than (for example) Philips with DVD+RW. What you fail to understand is ALL of the major companies have a vested interest in which DVD format sells most. Panasonic have been very aggressive with DVD-RAM - and it's paid off given that their parent company has overtaken Sony in profitablility. Can you blame them for that? Of course not as it is what they are in business for! Better a decent product gets "shoved down our throats" than a second rate one!

    Of course they could support DVD-RW if it was so deemed - however it would mean another licence to pay which would bump up the cost.

    ...and as just about everyone know out of that list only LiteOn and Sony are major OEM suppliers. LiteOn will support DVD-RAM from next year, Sony will never do so (but then only accounts for 15% of the OEM market). LG, Toshiba/Samsung and Pioneer account for over 50% of the OEM market - and all support DVD-RAM.
     
  25. grumpy42

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    It may have been first, but it was quickly usurped by DVD-RW. Of course, I am refering to the PC market since during the early days of DVD recorders, set top recorders did not exist or were prohibitively expensive. The point is, the PC market turned toward DVD-RW because of it compatibility. Ironically, the "benefits" of RAM that you expound can be more fully taken advantage of on a PC than a set top recorder. But, there are still nowhere near as many DVD-RAM writers available as ±RW writers. Set top recorders have brought RAM back from the brink of extinction.

    And they do so at their peril.

    Personally, I am willing to pay a little extra for the extra compatibility. But wait... The XS32 is one of the cheapest recorders, but has more features than units twice its price. Me thinks that the cost past down to the consumer would be minimal (if anything).

    I think we've sufficiently beat this dead horse...
     

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