new to lp players...what do i need?

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by gritbox, Aug 3, 2012.

  1. gritbox

    gritbox
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    got a 50s record player from my gfs dad and quickly built up a stack of classic lps!

    i love it, but im thinking newer ones would sound much better..?

    so...what do i need?

    good turntable, amp and speakers?

    ive seen usb turntables, but perhaps ignorantly, i think that cheapens the whole thing?

    can anyone recommend some hardware for me?

    also..will modern ones play 7" singles and lps too?
     
  2. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    The first thing you need is a very large pile of money.


    The second thing you need is a clear vision of your expectations.

    You can an a decent system for about £600 or a bit more (TT=£250, Amp=£200, Spkr=£150/pr).

    Now if you simply want to move a bit above a basic Record Player, you might be able to pull it off for less. Say - TT=£150, Amp=£150, Spkr=£100/pr)

    How far above or below that you want to go is up to you.

    First we need some sense of the available budget. Then we need some sense of what your requirements and expectation are, to the extent that you can relay them to us.

    That should get things started.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
  3. gritbox

    gritbox
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    ok dokey, thanks for getting back to me

    yep 5-600 is fine with me!

    i want something thats small and sleek all round

    ie not big massive amp or big massive speakers

    i want the wholesetup to look good and of course, want it to sound good too

    i like idea of being able to use usb function and i also like the idea of the autmatic arm so im not touching the spindle

    thanks

    ps i take it these are WORLD away from the 50s player SQ?
     
  4. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    Unfortunately, you are going to have to look at pure manual turntables. The only Automatic I can think of is the Denon DP300F, which for some strange reason is sold in the EU but not in the UK, even though the company is based in the UK. Here is some information. This is a nice turntabe for the money, but for the life of me, I can't understand why Denon is not selling it in the UK.

    Denon DP 300F Turntable - Black

    DP-300F | TURNTABLES | DENON US

    The most recommended turntable in the suggested price range is this Pro-Ject brand -

    Here are the assorted variations of the Project Debut III turntable -

    Superfi - PROJECT DEBUT 3 SE TURNTABLE

    Superfi - PROJECT DEBUT III TURNTABLE (BLACK)

    Superfi - PROJECT DEBUT III USB PHONO TURNTABLE

    Superfi - PROJECT DEBUT CARBON TURNTABLE WITH ORTOFON 2M RED CARTRIDGE

    For basic amps consider these -

    Superfi - YAMAHA AS300 AMPLIFIER

    Superfi - MARANTZ PM6003 BK AMP

    Superfi - MARANTZ PM6003 SL AMP

    Superfi - DENON PMA520AE AMPLIFIER

    Superfi - NAD C316BEE AMPLIFIER

    Superfi - YAMAHA AS500 AMPLIFIER

    The suggested Marantz 6003 has been replaced by the newer PM6004 -

    Superfi - MARANTZ PM6004 AMPLIFIER

    Being one model back accounts for the very low current selling price on the older PM6003 models.

    If at all possible, consider the Yamaha AS500 for £239; 85w/ch with a built-in Moving Magnet Phono Stage, an excellent bargain.

    In speakers, the first recommendation would be Wharfedale -

    Superfi - WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 10.1 SPEAKERS (PAIR)

    If you want a larger speaker with deeper bass, then consider the Diamond 10.2 -

    Superfi - WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 10.2 SPEAKERS (PAIR)

    Others to consider the Tannoy Mercury V1, Acoustic Energy Neo 1, Monitor Audio BX1 or the larger BX2, Dali Zensor 1, and several others depending on your specific needs and requirements.

    That should at least give you a feel for the possibilities in your price range. Also, while I used SuperFi as a reference these are all very common products and available from many different source, perhaps even at better prices. Consider HiFix.co.uk, HiFiGear.co.uk, RicherSounds.com, PeterTyson.co.uk, and countless others that escape my mind at the moment.

    Again, that should lend some perspective. And there is certainly room to adjust this to more closely meet your needs.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
  5. gritbox

    gritbox
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    mate jeeso, thats incredible thank you for taking the time to type that all for me!!

    am i just being snobby by preferring the table to be by a reputable brand?

    or are project actually a good name in this world?

    im looking through richer sounds now and ill report back with the set up i think im going to go for and see what you think
    thanks!
     
  6. gritbox

    gritbox
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    ok update

    technics 1210 mk2

    yamaha as500

    wharfedale 10.1

    that a good setup?

    do they compliment each other?

    i would prefer an automatic arm though, got to admit

    also...if im wanting to be able to set this up with my laptop somehow...is that possible without buying a cheaper USB table?

    and also...can i connect a microphone up to these at all?
     
  7. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    Pro-Ject is an internationally recognized quality brand, and exceptional value for the money. However, depending on your budget, there are other options. My point at this stage was to simply give you and idea of what was possible.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
  8. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    Unless the Technics 1210 Mk2 is used, it would seem to be out of your implied budget range. That is a nice turntable, frequently used by DJ's. But that might be a problem. A DJ cartridge is not the same as a HiFi cartridge. You definitely need a HiFi cartridge (elliptical as opposed to conical stylus). Also, as long as we are on the Subject, make sure the Technics actually comes with a cartridge. If not, that can add about another £100 to the price.

    Amp and speakers are fine. Though again, given us a budget, and the price you are paying for the suggested Speakers and Amp, that would help us set some priorities.

    The only single play auto turntables I'm aware of are either very expensive Thorens, or the Denon DP300F. You can get the Denon DP300F in France or Germany. And you might be able to contact Denon in the UK to see if you can get a model.

    If you have an amp, the amp will have Tape Recording OUTPUTS, these can be fed into any computer with Audio In connections. Then you just need some recording software. Audacity is a decent free audio recording program.

    You will be able to easily play your computer through your stereo system. This is quite common, and in the most basic sense simply needs one low cost cable to interconnect.

    Microphone is more difficult. Your computer should have a MIC input, though not knowing what you are trying to do makes it difficult to tell you how it can be done. If this is a vocal mic as in Karaoke or PA, recording studio applications, it gets more difficult. But if you simply want to record voice, the computer mic input will do. If you are trying to do PodCasts, then you can get PodCast software easy and cheap enough. There are even hardware/software Podcast kits out there for a decent price.

    Again, I can't tell you how to do something, unless I know what it is you are trying to do.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012
  9. gritbox

    gritbox
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    again mate many many thanks

    ok, revised list now is:

    PROJECT DEBUT SE

    Yamaha AS500

    Mordaunt Short Aviano 1

    this look like a good set-up?
     
  10. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    If there is any way you can move up in the speakers, so much the better. But the Diamond 10.1 and the MS-Aviano 1 are fine speakers. But the next model up, while having a larger size, will also have better bass.

    I think the Diamond 10.1 is about £150/pr and the Diamond 10.2 is about £200/pr. The Diamond 10.1 having a 5" bass driver and the Diamond 10.2 having a 6.5" bass driver. The Diamond 10.1 goes down to 48hz, and the Diamond 10.2 goes down to 40hz.

    I believe the Aviano 1 is on offer now at a reduced price, that should make it very good value.

    Aviano 1 bookshelf


    The Aviano 1 has a 5.25" bass driver and response down to 55hz, which is typical of a bookshelf speaker. (£119/pr)

    The Aviano 2 has a 6.5" bass driver and response down to 45hz. (£199/pr)

    It is not clear from the Mordaunt Short Aviano page whether these low frequency specification are at -3db or -6db. The Diamonds are certainly at -6db. At any rate, the Aviano are typical of speaker that size. If we assume the specs are a -3db, we can easily subtract another 5hz to possible 8hz to get the -6db response. Which make the Diamond and Aviano very close to each other.

    However, at the moment, the Aviano 1 are an exceptional bargain.

    That should be a pretty powerful system, and with either speakers, should sound very good.


    Steve/bluewizard
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012
  11. gritbox

    gritbox
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    ok once again thank you

    as a newbie to this, you are the exact kind of person i and other newbies rely on, so thank you for putting up with my daft questions and your ridiculously accurate feedback!!!!!!!!

    i am goin for the aviano 1s, as apparently theyre usually 180 quid but are cheaper now thanks to a new version i think?

    the guy in shop said these sounded better to him than the wharfedale 10.1s?

    last question for now would be re amps...

    richer sounds in glasgow is where im gonna buy this from, but they dont have the yamaha amp in stock for a few weeks

    if i went with this one...is it a massive step down in performance?

    Pioneer A20 Black | Stereo Amplifier | Richer Sounds

    its 30 quid less, but im guessing for a reason?
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2012
  12. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    The Pioneer is a much lower powered amp, though apparently pretty good quality.

    Richer Sounds site claims 30w/ch to 8 ohms for the Pioneer A20. SuperFi rates the same amp as 50w/ch to 4 ohms. But the Yamaha AS500 is 85w/ch to 8 ohms. I would ask the store if they can get a Yamaha from another store, or if they can ship it to you from their website? If not, it is probably worth waiting for, or trying to find it from another source.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
  13. gritbox

    gritbox
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    ok matey once again thank you

    very much appreciated
     
  14. gritbox

    gritbox
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    [​IMG]

    question for you

    this on the table says garrard 2000 but on the box itself, Ecko...

    what are the connectors on this..?

    would they fit into a modern amp?

    is there a way of knowing if this is mono or stereo and would this matter?

    im just wondering as i feel bad having this and shunning it!
     
  15. phil t

    phil t
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    Unless they’ve gone down hill since I lived in Scotland, I’d recommend a trip to Loud and Clear in Glasgow. They’ll sit you down and let you listen to various bits of kit and let you decide what works for you.

    :)

    Loud and Clear
     
  16. gritbox

    gritbox
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    thats exactly what im gonna do today at RS!

    cheers mate ill update once im back

    even taking the old girl in to see if she can be used!
     
  17. coruja

    coruja
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    Oh great! I think what you have there is a Radiogram? ( Radiogram (furniture) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

    A Garrard 200 turntable, a valve radio and an amp.

    You might be able to disconnect the TT from the rest of the furniture and use it with a amplifier. But I think you would need to take it along to a vintage H-Fi dealer to check it out if the effort would be worth it.

    You will need a new plinth and a cover. Possible new connectors. Definitely a new cartridge.

    But It is a Garrard after all and with a bit love & attention it may easily stand up to most modern budget TTs.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2012
  18. gritbox

    gritbox
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    thank you for that my man!

    i took it along to RS today and its a 3.5mm jack on front

    he plugged a 3.5mm into the old player and the 2 phonos into the amp, but even though we could hear sound quietly from the player...nothing was going into the amp :(
     
  19. coruja

    coruja
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    Well at least the motor works and the cartridge is picking something up!

    I wonder if the wiring inside is dead, I bet you could resurrect this, may be not now when you are keen to get on with sorting out a set-up, but later as a nice a vintage hi-fi project.

    Also, who knows what's going on in there anyway. What kind of output is being produced by the cartridge/TT and what amplification was necessary &etc?

    I assume the guys at RS connected the TT from the 3.5mm jack OUT to the RCA IN of the amp. But what amp was it and did it have a phono-stage?

    You just wait, I'll let you get back in to vinyl and let's see if you can resist sorting this old TT out in the near future!
     
  20. gritbox

    gritbox
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    haha your passion for this is raging through here mate, im lovin it!!

    it was a yamaha as500, so yeah think its got phono stage?

    full setups coming on monday...cant EFFIN wait

    thanks again to everyone for their help, much appreciated

    now that im using it for the speakers for the telly too, im trying to explain to my gf she should be paying half of the cost...lol wish me luck!
     
  21. gritbox

    gritbox
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    ok had it in for few days

    got to say, not blown away by the clarity here

    im suspecting the avianos maybe dont suit what im looking for

    the guy in RS, listening to what i was saying, recommended: DALIZENSOR 1

    are these a class above the aviano 1s right enough?
     

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