New System

ldoodle

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Hey,

My dad's current system is a Sony separates, over 30 years old!

He would like to update it.

He currently has:

tape deck
tuner
amplifier
equaliser
CD player

What would be a good like-for-like replacement. He's happy to drop the tape deck! Budget up to £600-700. Would probably make sense to go 2.1 rather than the 2.0 he has now.

On the subject of speakers, he currently bodges it by plugging multiples into each terminal. Can you get a hi-fi separates component that has more than 2 terminals (that isn't surround sound). He has 6 speakers (3X left, 3X right).

Alternatively, are mini Hi-Fi systems of today good enough to 'compete' with a separates system? For example the PIONEER P1DAB K (Pioneer P1DAB K Black | Mini System INC Speakers | Richer Sounds

Thanks
 
Having multiple front speakers will sound blooming awful, if he likes one pair just use the best pair.

Also having 3 speakers to one amp is really putting a strain on the amp, it probably is a 2ohm load or something..
 
Agree with the above. Even worse if the impedance is different between the speakers.
What are the current speakers? i think he sould settling on a pair but better. If he wants to add more then he may be better off looking at a AV instead.

IMO, most mini hifi cannot compete with a decent budget separates setup. Most are low powered and geared towards features than performance but there are 1 or 2 that can give a good account for itself like a Marantz MCR610. I definitely wouldn't want to add 6 speakers to a mini.

The Pio P1dab i cannot comment on but that 2x75 is achievable with a 4ohms speakers and a pinch of salt:D. So will be 2x 37w with 8 ohm load. However, if paired correctly with suitable speakers could be more than enough so long as you don't hit party levels for a sustained period.

EQ's are also not really available nowadays but replaced with sound modes or pre-determined settings, like Theatre, Disco etc which to me make things sound worse so I would tend to leave them off.
 
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Thanks. I think I might get him to look at the Onkyo separates system, as it has 4 speaker terminals as standard, and you can have it in A and B or A or B mode, and get 4 better speakers. Plus it has a sub output.

The room is massive, hence 2 won't be quite good enough.

Shame Pio don't do AM/FM tuners anymore, because their separates range looks nice. I have to say Yamaha's recent stuff, even in AVR's, doesn't look too sexy.

Superfi - Onkyo A9030 Amplifier
Superfi - Onkyo C7030 CD Player
Superfi - Onkyo T4030 DAB/DAB+/FM Tuner

Could either of you recommend some speakers + sub to go with it. I like the look of the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's but fear they're too big.

I need something in between satellite speakers and something like the Wharfedales. Maybe 20cm high, 10cm wide, any depth.

Ideally, 2 of them will be horizontal (like a centre speaker in 5.1), and 2 vertical.

Oh, on the subject of speakers, I'm new to bi-wiring. The Diamond 9.1's are bi-wireable - do you need special amps for this?
 
Using four front speakers is still a bad idea.
 
PS: His current speakers are from my old Sony HTK-215 system, from more than 15 years ago.

Ergo, they're shit!
 
What do you mean by 4 "front" speakers?

Imagine you're standing in the middle of the room, facing north. There'll be 4 speakers in the room, one in each corner. The ones to the left will be the left channel, the ones to the right will be the right channel.

This will be a 2.0/2.1 system
 
That isn't stereo that's duplicated quad sound, which is pretty awful. If he wants high output then buy a speaker that can play loud.

A+B should not be used at the same time, as that means you are using two amp channels driving four speakers. If the speakers are 8ohm, the combined load is 4ohm. If the speakers are 6 ohm, the combined load is 3 ohm. If the speakers are 4 ohm, the combined load is 2 ohm.
 
Is it not the same for cinemas then? They don't have 7 speakers that can play loud do they.

They have a dozen surround lefts, a dozen surround rights, half a dozen rears, so the entire audience gets the full effect.

Why is it any different having multiple lefts and multiple rights in a stereo setup, which cinemas must have done before the multi-channel audio we have today.

The manuals and rear panel say you can use it in either A+B or A, B.
 
Because they have sound processing, and multi-channel amps. If your dad wants speakers from more than one speaker pair , buy a AVR, buy L/R and rear pair, then use a DSP mode like Pro-Logic IIx Music.

A & B speaker switching is not supposed to be when you have four speakers in the same room, playing the same material. It's more suited for multi-room, and you should only have A OR B not A AND B.
 
and you should only have A OR B not A AND B.

What does this mean then?

onkyo.png
 
I already said, use A or B.

Not A + B. Doesn't matter what it says on the back or the manual, you don't connect two pairs of speakers to two channels of amplification
 
And like I said if you want four speakers, in the same room, playing the same music, buy a AVR. Connect one pair to L/R, the second pair as rears, then use a mode like Logic 7 Music, Pro-Logic IIx.
 
It's more suited for multi-room, and you should only have A OR B not A AND B.

Would that not defeat the purpose of multi-room, only being able to have it in one of the rooms?
 
If you want multi-room then get an amp that has four channels of amplification, ie a AVR (or get two stereo amps)

use zone 2 on a AVR if you want multi-room, or use rear speakers and a DSP like Pro-Logic IIx Music.

Multiple speakers, playing identical sound, all connected to one amp is a disaster. For sound quality, and on the load seen by the amp. You will get each speaker cancelling each other one out, phase/lobing issues.
 
Honestly, I'm not doubting you. Bit of a 'between a rock and hard place' situation where 2 manufacturers are saying the same thing, which is different to what you say.


This part specifically refutes that. Whether or not you should, in the same room, from a sound perspective is a different thing.

onkyo3.png
 
Do what you like then. I'm telling you what you want to do will result in crap sound, and a strain on your amp.
 
Honestly, I'm not doubting you. Bit of a 'between a rock and hard place' situation where 2 manufacturers are saying the same thing, which is different to what you say.



This part specifically refutes that. Whether or not you should, in the same room, from a sound perspective is a different thing.

View attachment 615650

It's meant for use in different rooms though, one R+L set in each room. Even then, when using both sets at once, you have to be careful not to use any speakers of less than 8 ohms impedance.
 
You can have FOUR speaker on one Stereo amp, but you have to have the right amp and you have to have the right speakers, and the speakers have to be placed properly.

Let's start this conversation over -

1.) Specifically what are the brand and model of each piece of equipment including all the speakers.

2.) We have a budget of roughly £700, specifically what components do you need from that budget.

I think you can forget about the Equalizer. Most people simply use an equalizer as an extended volume control, or an extended bass control. That's not music, that's noise.

Once we find out what speakers he has, then we can evaluate the possibilities. Given that he has an equalizer and 6 speakers, I think we can assume he like bass. However, since he is upgrading, is that still what he wants. I would be inclined to recommend speakers that are clear with decent bass over speakers with over-blown bass.

If he wants a multi-room system, that depends on where the room are in relation to each other. If the wire runs are approaching 50ft (15m), then there is going to be a bit of deterioration in the sound quality, though it depends on what size wire is being used.

I would suggest, rather than multi-room, simply add a second system. Though again, I don't know where these room are in relation to each other, and I don't know what the rooms are.

If the rooms are close, it might not be a problem.

Let me suggest a basic system and see how this fits with your needs -

http://www.superfi.co.uk/p-10663-denon-pma720ae-amplifier.aspx

http://www.superfi.co.uk/p-10654-denon-dcd720ae-cd-player.aspx

http://www.superfi.co.uk/p-13707-tannoy-mercury-v4i-speakers-pair.aspx

£175/ea = Denon PMA-720 Integrated Amp (50w/ch)
£175/ea = Denon DCD-720 CD Player
£250/pr = Tannoy Mercury V4i, 2x6", 32hz Speakers
-------------------------
£600 = Total

£170/ea = Yamaha CDS-300 CD Player
£229/ea = Yamaha A-S310 60w/ch Integrated Amp with DAC
£250/ea = Tannoy Mercury V4i, 2x6", 32hz Speakers
------------------------
£649 = TOTAL

I actually found the Mercury V4i for £200/pr -

Tannoy Mercury V4i Speakers

The above Yamaha Amp and CD Player are £400. That leave about £300/pr or whatever he can scrape together for speakers.

Monitor Audio BX5 Speakers Black Oak - HiFi & Pairs - Speakers

Monitor Audio BX6 Speakers - HiFi & Pairs - Speakers

That should give you some idea of the possibilities.

But ... we do need to know the equipment he has now.

Steve/bluewizard
 
Thanks Steve.

The requirements are amp, tuner and CD player as a minimum. Current speakers are from an old home theatre kit: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-HTK215-Amplifier/dp/B0000C73JX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It will be a wholesale change, so new speakers too. Multi-room not required.

The problem is, they don't want or have the floor space for floors floor standers. They'd prefer bookshelf.
 
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And like I said if you want four speakers, in the same room, playing the same music, buy a AVR. Connect one pair to L/R, the second pair as rears, then use a mode like Logic 7 Music, Pro-Logic IIx.

Can you get what you suggest in audio only? The video switching would be totally unnecessary and wasted.
 
No, as you need features of a AVR but no video switching. Don't even use those Sony speakers, as they will be 4ohm, have incredibly poor bass response.

Small speakers won't have high output, and being tiny they need a lot of power to go loud.

One option is Q Acoustics 2020i, a AVR around £150-£300, and a subwoofer say BK XLS200 or XLS400
 
Bookshelf speakers on stands take up roughly the same amount of room as floorstanding speaker. So, whether floorstanding are possible will depend on the dimension of the room.

Though a bit over budget, the Monitor Audio Bronze 5 has 2x5" bass drivers, that is roughly the equivalent of a single 6.5" bass driver. Think of the Bronze 5 as bookshelf with a built-in stand.

But, you can get good performance from Bookshelf speakers, but they need to be larger bookshelf speaker.

The Monitor Audio Bronze 2 - £280/pr -

Superfi - Monitor Audio Bronze 2 Speakers (Pair)

They have a single 6.5" bass driver with rated bass down to 42hz, which is good for a bookshelf speaker.

The problems with an Amp and Tuner is that it is expensive, and sadly the problem with a Receiver is that they are not the popular in the UK.

As you can see from this combination -

Superfi - Yamaha TD500 DAB/DAB+/FM/AM Tuner

Superfi - Yamaha AS301 Amplifier with DAC

That would break down like this -

£289/ea = Yamaha TD500 Tuner DAB/DAB+/AM/FM
£170/ea = Yamaha CDS300 CD Player
£229/ea = Yamaha AS301 Integrated amp, 60w/ch, with DAC
£280/pr = Monitor Audio Bronze 2 bookshelf speakers
-------------------
£968 = Total

That is a very high value system, you can spend less, but you will get less.

For example, the Denon 720 system -

£200/ea = Onkyo T4020 DAB/DAB+/FM Tuner
£175/ea = Denon PMA-720 Integrated Amp (50w/ch)
£175/ea = Denon DCD-720 CD Player
£280/pr = Monitor Audio Bronze 2 bookshelf speakers
-------------------------
£830 = Total

But there is an alternative. Onkyo makes some decent Stereo Receivers, very clear.

£270/ea = Onkyo TX8030 Receiver, AM/FM, ~90w/ch
£190/ea = Onkyo C7030 CD Player
£280/pr = Monitor Audio Bronze 2 bookshelf speakers
------------------------
£740 = Total

Of course this doesn't cover every option, but it does give you some idea of the possibilities.

Keep in mind, today, most people only use broadcast radio for local news and weather. For music, most are Streaming music from the Internet. There are thousand of Internet Radio Station, as well as streaming services like Spotify and Pandora.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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