New system suggestions please.

@Helix Hifi
I think it could be a possibility, Couch, Carpet, Curtains etc.

@Paul7777x
I will try that.
Thanks
 
Well,
@Paul7777x
I tried the reset. It made zero difference.
Today I decided to try something different. I hooked up the Oberons 5's to my Denon avr2600h,
Voila, instant treble. I was literally blown away with the improvement, don't get me wrong, I know there was lacking in the overall sound. But I now have got faith in my Oberon 5's.
I first played Dark side of the moon through the CD11 and A11. Dull, like as if the tweeters were disconnectred almost.
DSOM via Tidal hifi via WXAD10 > A11 > Oberon5. a bit of an improvement, but nowhere near great.
disconnected the Oberons and hooked them to the 2600 which has streaming.
same two tracks via Panasonic UB820 - 4k player > Denon . Oberon5 = I was like "There you go"
Same two via Tidal hifi > Denon >Oberon5 = Brilliant.
When I say lacking in overall sound. I mean I had no control over the bass/treble to adjust.

Hooked up my Planar 1 as the 2600 has a phono in.
Volume was low. SQ was improved over the A11 but not by a big margin. But I feel a half decent phono stage would have improved it even more.

So now, I feel the Rotels are the culprit. Looks like replacements are in order. But what do I go for?
Thanks
 
The obvious choice would be Denon DRA800H. It’s streaming amplifier. Since Denon seems to match the speakers better. If not the Marantz PM8006 is nice. PM6007. Marantz and Dali is very popular combination.

Are you sure the treble is not adjusted on the Denon?
 
Well,
@Paul7777x
I tried the reset. It made zero difference.
Today I decided to try something different. I hooked up the Oberons 5's to my Denon avr2600h,
Voila, instant treble. I was literally blown away with the improvement, don't get me wrong, I know there was lacking in the overall sound. But I now have got faith in my Oberon 5's.
I first played Dark side of the moon through the CD11 and A11. Dull, like as if the tweeters were disconnectred almost.
DSOM via Tidal hifi via WXAD10 > A11 > Oberon5. a bit of an improvement, but nowhere near great.
disconnected the Oberons and hooked them to the 2600 which has streaming.
same two tracks via Panasonic UB820 - 4k player > Denon . Oberon5 = I was like "There you go"
Same two via Tidal hifi > Denon >Oberon5 = Brilliant.
When I say lacking in overall sound. I mean I had no control over the bass/treble to adjust.

Hooked up my Planar 1 as the 2600 has a phono in.
Volume was low. SQ was improved over the A11 but not by a big margin. But I feel a half decent phono stage would have improved it even more.

So now, I feel the Rotels are the culprit. Looks like replacements are in order. But what do I go for?
Thanks

Are you anywhere near the retailer from whom you bought the Rotel amp?

Before you start spending more money I’d have it checked out. And by your ears against a different one.

It’s hard to understand how there is such a massive difference between the A11 and the Denon AVR with the treble response.

I’d certainly try to have a comparison between your Rotel amp and a new or used one at the retailer.

Even if, in comparison, there is a difference between the Rotel and the 2600 it should not be by the gulf you describe.
 
Ps, have you tried the same album through the CD11 into the Denon?

And, the same music through the WXAD into the 2600?
 
Pps,

Make sure you have the tone controls on ‘bypass’ and that you have disabled the ‘Tone Rotel Boost’ and ‘Tone Rotel Max’.

Both of these will boost bass at the expense of treble response and will make the sound ‘thicker’. The Oberons certainly won’t benefit from that.

17044F1F-FB53-4619-8F9A-D12773ACEFE8.jpeg
 
If the above makes no difference then a comparison with another RA11 really should be done if at all possible.
 
@Helix Hifi
That Marantz PM8006 looks fantastic, but It would be out of my budget at the moment.
Thanks

@Paul7777x
Richer Sounds in Belfast. 385km from my house unfortunately.
And yes, I do feel the A11 is just not right as it cannot be that shy on the treble. I tried with treble turned up full ( 10 ) and it sounded more shrill (tishh) than cymbal sound if that makes sense.

I haven't tried the cd11 nor the wxad through the 2600, but I will tomorrow as I left the dalis hooked up to the denon for now.

I have tried Bypass.
Boost on/off
Max on/off
nothing seems to make this amp / speaker combo decent treble.
My wife likes music but I brought her into the living room today and played some music that she would have heard through the Rotel, she admitted that she can understand now why I was not happy with it.
At this point if there was a receiver good enough for music I would contemplate getting rid of the A11 ~ CD11 ~ 2600 ~ and the 2 front Dali spektor 2 speakers.
Keep the Oberons as fronts / music speakers and buy a good receiver. But I feel that is not good enough.

Thanks
 
My final attempt to rescue the A11.

It’s a bit desperate, but bear with me.

Are you using speaker A or B only? Not a combination of the two?

And the binding posts are tight?

Have you checked and triple checked that you have the speaker cable polarity right?

Red to red from amp to speaker and black to black?

And all speaker cable from A or B?

It’s so easy to make that mistake. I’m sure everyone on this forum has at some point.

And, desperately I know, is the speaker cable from the A11 the same cable as you’re using between the 2600 and the Dalis?
 
Last edited:
It seems to me you are lacking more warmth in the upper midrange, lower bass.

If you feel it sounds thin at loud volume, you probably don’t have the right amplifier for the speakers.

Oberon 5 are bit thin upper midrange. Making violins sound tad harsh. Female voices too. Lower bass is quite good. So they need an amplifier with warm sound.

In the budget range there are 3 brands I’d consider. Denon, Yamaha, Marantz.

Or try and get used Class A Sugden amplifier.

Remember the PM8006 has midrange control. Very handy to have with not so forgiving recordings. You can find it used. Perhaps lucky to get refurbished one from online store. It never hurts to ask.

May I ask, does all recordings sound thin? Even audiophile recordings. Dire Straits On Every Street as an example.

Ticket to heaven track. If it sounds thin, bright then, you most likely have some issues.
 
@Paul7777x


Are you using speaker A or B only? Not a combination of the two?

A only

And the binding posts are tight?

Yes

Have you checked and triple checked that you have the speaker cable polarity right?

100% checked the cable with a multimeter to be certain

Red to red from amp to speaker and black to black?

Yes

And all speaker cable from A or B?

A

It’s so easy to make that mistake. I’m sure everyone on this forum has at some point.

I understand

And, desperately I know, is the speaker cable from the A11 the same cable as you’re using between the 2600 and the Dalis?

No, Different cable, but I will use the cable on the a11 today.
I am also going to borrow my wife's Marantz 612 from the bedroom and hook it up for a listen.
Will report back.


@Helix Hifi

Bass is ok,
Mids ( I am assuming vocals and instruments ) are pretty good as well.
Highs. ( everything above vocals ) are just sounding muffled. or barely audible.

When you say audiophile recording. Do you mean on Tidal Master?
 
What I mean is that many people buy speakers because one particular song sounds fabulous in the store. Then simply forget to play the music they like.

As example. My parties by Dire Straits. There’s lot of high frequency details in this song. I believe it’s triangle instrument in the song from start to finish.

This song can sound sharp on the wrong speakers. It should not sound sharp at all. But warm, full sounding. If it does the latter, then most likely bad recordings sound good also.

If you know what I mean. But it’s difficult to tell exactly what’s going on. From my understanding you’re wife likes the sound. You do not. Then either the speakers or the amplifier needs to changed to something else.

My bet is the Rotel is to flat in the treble. This is why you need to adjust the treble.

You need an amplifier which boost the treble more. In other words not an amplifier which sounds neutral. Rotel is exactly this.

Therefore the Denon PMA 600NE might be an option. It’s little weak power vise. So most likely you well miss Rotel bass control on loud volume.

Still this depends on your taste. Dali Oberon 5 don’t need a lot of power to shine on loud volume. So 40 watts should suffice for most people.

But I would advice you to get the Denon DRA800H instead. Even if you don’t need 100 watts, you well hear the sound is more controlled on low, loud volume.

Sincerely hope you figure it out. It could be the Rotel is faulty.
 
@Helix Hifi
Hi,
I tried that track "My Parties"
Treble was audible but no detailed "Ting" could be heard. more like "tish"
If that makes sense.
 
*Update.
Fingers crossed I will be able to resolve this as I may have a buyer for my rotel gear. ( I did say MIGHT )
If this happens, Could someone suggest a replacement from here > Richersounds
Thanks
 
I’m loathe to suggest anything as I think the Rotel amp might be faulty.

It seems simply way too much of a difference between the two amps the way you describe it.

Is there anyone you know with an amp you can borrow for half an hour?

It doesn’t have to be an expensive one, an old anything would do.

If it turns out to have a better sound, closer to the Denon than the Rotel, then the RA11 needs to be looked at by RS and either repaired under warranty or replaced.
 
Or, the Denon alternative.



However (at the risk of becoming a bore) it would genuinely astonish me if either of the above, or anything else, extends more treble than the Rotel with the tone control whacked up to max... unless your current Rotel is somehow rogered.

@Paul7777x


Are you using speaker A or B only? Not a combination of the two?

A only

And the binding posts are tight?

Yes

Have you checked and triple checked that you have the speaker cable polarity right?

100% checked the cable with a multimeter to be certain

Red to red from amp to speaker and black to black?

Yes

And all speaker cable from A or B?

A

It’s so easy to make that mistake. I’m sure everyone on this forum has at some point.

I understand

And, desperately I know, is the speaker cable from the A11 the same cable as you’re using between the 2600 and the Dalis?

No, Different cable, but I will use the cable on the a11 today.
I am also going to borrow my wife's Marantz 612 from the bedroom and hook it up for a listen.
Will report back.


@Helix Hifi

Bass is ok,
Mids ( I am assuming vocals and instruments ) are pretty good as well.
Highs. ( everything above vocals ) are just sounding muffled. or barely audible.

When you say audiophile recording. Do you mean on Tidal Master?

Did you, in desperation I know, swap the cable from the Denon to the Rotel as an experiment, or try the Marantz?
 
Even if, in comparison, there is a difference between the Rotel and the 2600 it should not be by the gulf you describe.

I’m loathe to suggest anything as I think the Rotel amp might be faulty.

It seems simply way too much of a difference between the two amps the way you describe it

Totally agree.

The sound quality difference between decent amps shouldn't be this vast, although I appreciate it's a subjective judgement and we individuals hear things in different ways. Really think it's best to satisfy yourself that the Rotel amp is working correctly. Will the potential buyer of the Rotel get a demo first - that would be interesting? Otherwise you could inadvertently be selling a faulty amp and the buyer will not be happy.
 
@Paul7777x
I have tried different cables going back a few weeks which made no difference.
I did manage to try my wife's 612. While there was an improvement it wasn't as vast as the Rotel/Denon.
Also a few weeks ago I brought my wife's Mission QX2 speakers down to the living room and hooked them up the the A11, the result was just as shy on treble as the Dali's.
I had a notion of trying to borrow an amp off someone, ( that's if I can find someone with one ) I live in a smallish town where most people are too miserable to spend money on hifi.

@dogfonos

This person heard it already and was happy enough with what he heard.
 
Well, I have to finally confess to being stumped.

I’m still more than half convinced there may be a problem with the Rotel amp, but the only real way to test that is to run two side by side or have it sent back to RS for a check up.

That the Missions also fell short on the treble also indicates a fault.

Your distance from RS would make that difficult of course. At least to hear with your own ears.

It just occurred to me that you might update and overwrite the software to see if that kills any issues in the RA11.

 
@Paul7777x
I have been in touch with RS regarding this issue with some time as I first thought it was the Dali's were the issue. They have hooked up a same setup in their store and said they have no issue whatsoever with treble with it.
They feel there might be an issue with my A11 as you suspect. I think a replacement will arranged.
Will keep you posted.
 
Hope the new one is fine. No issues. Are you getting the same amplifier then. Or something else.
 
Sometimes you just get a faulty unit.
 

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