New system suggestions please.

vectra1

Active Member
Ps, the Apt-X Bluetooth will do a great job of streaming from your phone until you get a streamer.
Actually, I have bluetooth on my laptop as well, Would there be any benefit with the Topping E30 ?
Thanks
 

gava

Active Member
This is interesting regarding the current state of Bluetooth streaming and Codecs:




AptX Bluetooth Topping BC3 v Wired USB connection to Topping D30

Snips from the ASR website.

1624613525598.png


1624613675340.png



Overlay those on top of each other and you will run screaming away from AptX and plug in your USB cable.

Bluetooth is certainly convenient and of sufficient quality under many circumstances, but the overall results are orders of magnitude lower.
 

vectra1

Active Member
Well
Off to a good start
Delivery arrived and set it all up,
Obligatory first cd. Dark side of the moon.
Loading
Loading
Loading
Still loading making a scraping searching sound.
Then
Error and spat the disc tray open.
Tried 4 more cd’s and everyone of them did the same.
eventually it read the pink Floyd disc and started playing it. Every 10 seconds or so sound would go all crackly and the disc would sound like it was searching again for a few seconds. I can only assume faulty laser or something?
Rang RS and the couldn’t have been more apologetic and said they would send out a replacement, within 2 minutes I got a notification from DPD they had a new delivery for me. Got a call back from RS to inform me the replacement is on its way.
On another note, just by using Bluetooth from my phone, I am dead happy with the sound. I can only imagine it will improve with a few hours on the speakers and when I get my settings I like. Also speaker placement.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
That’s a disaster!

I hope the new one arrives ASAP.

The Bluetooth files shown by Gava are certainly true. But they are less pertinent than they appear.

The numbers for the sac are so spectacularly low that the Bluetooth looks bad. But it’s not when measured against human ears.

Having said that, cds and a good streamer using full fat files will sound better.

Once you’ve got the speakers set up properly and you’ve had a good few hours to get used to the different sound (from your current music listening to the Denon and Spektors) I’m sure you’ll enjoy it all even more.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Actually, I have bluetooth on my laptop as well, Would there be any benefit with the Topping E30 ?
Thanks

Yes. The E30, or another good dac will improve upon Bluetooth noticeably.

The USB in put on the Topping is excellent.

Its not that Bluetooth is bad, but that the Rotel and Oberon can make better quality sound from non compressed files that are rendered less ‘noisily’, for want of a better word.

For instance, even Spotify at 320 is appreciably better over a USB output from the laptop to a decent dac than it ever can be by Bluetooth.
 

vectra1

Active Member
Thanks again @Paul7777x
You have been a wealth of information in this process. My replacement will be her Monday, fingers crossed this one will be fine, I knew immediatly something didn't sound right when it was trying to read the disc. My wife's 60th is 24th July, I have already bought her a mini system for the bedroom as she loves music upstairs while doing housework or taking a bath. ( Marantz 612 paired to Mission qx 2 )
But there will also be a party to celebrate to pay for so the Topping E30 might have to be put on the long finger for now.
So far I am delighted with the amp and Oberon 5's via bluetooth.
So things can only get better from here on in.
Thanks again.
 

vectra1

Active Member
Replacement cd player arrived Monday, the second I fired it up and put a disc in I knew it was good to go, sounded totally different to the first one.

Anyhow, Still dead happy with my purchase.
Question.
Placed the speakers directly on carpet floor. roughly 200mm from wall behind them. They sound really good, Deep soft Bass is how I would describe and like it, Not like a Hollow Boom.
The thing is, Treble seems a little lacking with CD's, to my ears it is better through bluetooth, should I put something under speakers or ???
 

Ugg10

Distinguished Member
Do you have the speakers pointing straight out or toed in towards the listening position? The further you go off axis the lower the treble typically, so pointing them at the listening position may increase the treble a bit. Worth a try.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
How far apart are the speakers, and how far is your seating position from the speaker plane?

I’d also suggest giving yourself some time (many hours) getting used to the nuances of the new sound.

It does definitely take a while to get the brain focused on what’s going on, most especially with new speakers.
 

vectra1

Active Member
@Ugg10
Pointing straight forward, I just did a basic install first.

@Paul7777x
What you said is probably spot on.
Like driving a new type car, it takes a bit of time to get used to everythnig.
Anyhow, thanks again for the assistance.
 

gava

Active Member
How far apart are the speakers, and how far is your seating position from the speaker plane?

I’d also suggest giving yourself some time (many hours) getting used to the nuances of the new sound.

It does definitely take a while to get the brain focused on what’s going on, most especially with new speakers.

The real meaning of "burn-in". :)
 

dogfonos

Well-known Member
Treble seems a little lacking with CD's, to my ears it is better through bluetooth, should I put something under speakers or ???
Placing some additional support beneath the speakers is far more likely to affect bass than treble. The exception might be if the extra support helped 'aim' the tweeters at your ears.

AFAIK, the usual Dali suggestion is to aim the speakers straight ahead (i.e. not toed in) but it's really up to the listener to decide on the speaker positioning that best suits them and their listening situation.
 

gava

Active Member
The thing is, Treble seems a little lacking with CD's, to my ears it is better through bluetooth, should I put something under speakers or ???

What BT codec are you using?

It's certainly possible that it sounds different as the different BT codecs do roll off the treble to different degrees. It might well be that CD is more accurate but the BT more pleasing.

When you say "lacking" can you describe what you are hearing?
 

vectra1

Active Member
You have lost me there with the codec question.

When I say lacking,
Easiest way to describe it is, if I am listening to music and have the treble at 7 and turn it down to 3.
If that makes sence ?
 

vectra1

Active Member
Yes. The E30, or another good dac will improve upon Bluetooth noticeably.

The USB in put on the Topping is excellent.

Its not that Bluetooth is bad, but that the Rotel and Oberon can make better quality sound from non compressed files that are rendered less ‘noisily’, for want of a better word.

For instance, even Spotify at 320 is appreciably better over a USB output from the laptop to a decent dac than it ever can be by Bluetooth.
Well @Paul7777x
One month on and all is as expected hoped for.
Delighted with it, have recovered a lot of missing treble by lowering the bass. I actually didn't expect such lows from these speakers so obviously it was overpowering everything else.

Next for the DAC,
You suggested the Topping E30, while I don't doubt your suggestion in any way, I have a question. Does it do MQA ?
Reason being is I have a few streaming accounts, Tidal hifi ~ Deezer Hifi ~ Youtube.
I Mainly use Deezer but at time use Tidal, I am literally wondering which one is best by streaming from Laptop and iphone, ( I assume Iphone can be plugged into the E30?

Alternatively, I was looking at the IFI Zen dac V2.

I don't mind spending an extra few £/€ to get better, though from what I am reading and trying to understand that more expensive can lead to diminishing returns.
Thanks
 

vectra1

Active Member
Well @Paul7777x
One month on and all is as expected hoped for.
Delighted with it, have recovered a lot of missing treble by lowering the bass. I actually didn't expect such lows from these speakers so obviously it was overpowering everything else.

Next for the DAC,
You suggested the Topping E30, while I don't doubt your suggestion in any way, I have a question. Does it do MQA ?
Reason being is I have a few streaming accounts, Tidal hifi ~ Deezer Hifi ~ Youtube.
I Mainly use Deezer but at time use Tidal, I am literally wondering which one is best by streaming from Laptop and iphone, ( I assume Iphone can be plugged into the E30?

Alternatively, I was looking at the IFI Zen dac V2.

I don't mind spending an extra few £/€ to get better, though from what I am reading and trying to understand that more expensive can lead to diminishing returns.
Thanks
Well @Paul7777x
I am ready to buy the dac.
Have you had any time to take a look at the above post?
Thanks
 

gava

Active Member
You suggested the Topping E30, while I don't doubt your suggestion in any way, I have a question. Does it do MQA ?

No I don't believe so.

However... I am now very much of the opinion that High-Res in general and MQA in particular should be avoided. There are lots of reasons, and it's a big point of contention. There are many threads here and elsewhere going into the debate in detail.

On the plus side you don't have to pay the MQA proprietary tax for lower quality audio. :cool:

I don't mind spending an extra few £/€ to get better, though from what I am reading and trying to understand that more expensive can lead to diminishing returns.

Quality is not a problem with the E30. If it doesn't have all the features you need then you should choose another device, but it's performance is top-notch.

 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Well @Paul7777x
I am ready to buy the dac.
Have you had any time to take a look at the above post?
Thanks

My humble apologies sir. I planned to reply and then probably fell asleep or had a brain explosion.

If you were only going to use the usb output from the laptop, then the Zen would be the thing as you need MQA.

However, as you need to use your iPhone too, then that would mean the single input Zen would be unsuitable.

Unless you were happy to swap the laptop out of the Zen and plug in the iPhone (with the camera adapter) whenever you wanted to use the phone as a source instead.

The least expensive way to use both would be to but the Zen for the main playing from the laptop then an airplay device to use with the phone.

It also means you can send uncompressed music from the phone (instead of the lossy Bluetooth). And do so wirelessly rather than plug the phone into a dac.


The above is by many accounts a very fine adaptor for Airplay. Inexpensive but not cheap.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Having said all that, if it was my cash I was spending I’d be much more inclined to buy the Yamaha WX-AD10.


It will play just about everything. It has airplay (so the iPhone is sorted for free) Bluetooth, Tidal, Spotify, Qobuz and plenty of others.

It also uses DNLA so there is the option of using a UPnP player from the phone too, which will give you up to 24/192 bitstreams ( I use Mconnect which is very good and simple).

For £150 new it’s a splendid bargain. And it’s a plug and forget device.

It doesn’t do MQA, but frankly I’m of the opinion that it’s hugely more hype than substance.

The Yamaha plays 24/192 and would, imo, be an excellent addition to the Rotel, making the RA11 an essentially ultra modern, top quality amp/streamer combination for silly money.

So,

if you want a very good, adaptable, stand alone streaming device that will play just about anything from anywhere (including Airplay for your phone), the Yamaha is the thing.

If you want a multi input dac, for the laptop, tv input and your iPhone, then the Topping is a grab it quick mega bargain.

If you just want a single usb input (not using the phone) and must have MQA, then the cheapest way is the Zen. And very good it is too by every account.
 

vectra1

Active Member
Thanks again @Paul7777x
Lots to think about.
Main streaming I guess would be iphone/ipad
Secondly would be Laptop.
I dont think I would ever be connecting the TV as I have that through the Denon 5.1 system,

So based on your assesment, go with the Yamaha?
I ask you this because the advice you gave me with the Hifi turned out to be excellent.
Thanks.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Ah, of course. So no need to consider the tv.

Therefore only the laptop and iPhone.

With the WXAD10 you would only need the phone to control what the Yamaha streams. That’s more useful than it seems as it doesn’t drain the phone battery, nor will message/email beeps and phone ringing interrupt the stream.

And you can use the phone as the streamer too should you wish.

And, if your laptop is UPnP compliant, you can stream directly from it to the Yamaha too.

It’s a splendid box of tricks for a bargain price. It’s certainly what I’d choose if I wanted to stream for sane money.
 
Last edited:

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Ps, any non airplay enabled dac would require Apples camera kit to connect the phone to the usb input.

So more expense and more wires.
 

vectra1

Active Member
Ordered the WXAD10 from Germany on Amazon, €153 all in which includes a 1mtr Kabledirect RCA cable.
Should have it by friday.
Will keep you posted. And thanks again for your time and helpful advice.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Ordered the WXAD10 from Germany on Amazon, €153 all in which includes a 1mtr Kabledirect RCA cable.
Should have it by friday.
Will keep you posted. And thanks again for your time and helpful advice.

You’re quite welcome anytime sir.

I’d be interested to hear how you get on with the Yamaha when you get the chance 👍
 

vectra1

Active Member
You’re quite welcome anytime sir.

I’d be interested to hear how you get on with the Yamaha when you get the chance 👍
Thank you, and I absolutely will report back.
 

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