New system suggestions please.

vectra1

Active Member
advice needed.
I sold my old hifi this week and am in the process of purchasing something new.
I guess the best bet is my starting point.
What I have now is my surround system.
Denon 2600
Panasonic UB820 ~ 4k player
Lenovo thinkbook 15 G2 laptop ( to stream from )
Iphone 11 plus for Deezer & Tidal ( both hifi accounts )
Dali spektor 2 ( front and rear )
Dali Vokal
Dali e-9f

Several questions.
I like deep bass in my music, but not to the extent of overpowering the mids and highs, I had enough of that with my old Bose XL 4000's

So, Speakers I am thinking Dali Oberon 5 ( these to replace my front spektor 2's ?? )

1)
If I only replaced the fronts and used the 2600 to drive them, would I be disappointed in the music sound?

2)
If so,
I would buy an amp to suit the above speakers for my music, ( suggestions please)
Marantz? Denon ? etc.

3)
If I only buy an amp and speakers.
Would my 4k player be good enough to play cd's through my stereo amp?
Also, would the denon 2600 give me good quality audio to stream from laptop/iphone through the stereo amp?

4)
Failing number 3.
As I play minimal CD's and mostly stream, I think a streamer to hook up the the stereo amp would be inorder?

I am open to suggestions in any of the above products.
 

Jamie

Distinguished Member
This maybe asking you more questions than answers but I'll add a few thoughts.

Are you wanting to use the same system for both surround and music or have a sperate stereo system. Your current 2600 doesn't have pre-amp outputs for the front channels which makes adding a stereo amp more difficult.

1)
If I only replaced the fronts and used the 2600 to drive them, would I be disappointed in the music sound?
Definitely Maybe! certainly I would be but a mate of mine upgraded to a similar Denon X2400 from a Bluetooth speaker and thinks it sounds good for music.
It would be fair to say I'd expect it to be poor for stereo compared to a similar cost stereo amp.

2)
If so,
I would buy an amp to suit the above speakers for my music, ( suggestions please)
Marantz? Denon ? etc.
An idea of budget would help.
3)
If I only buy an amp and speakers.
Would my 4k player be good enough to play cd's through my stereo amp?
Also, would the denon 2600 give me good quality audio to stream from laptop/iphone through the stereo amp?

If you bought a stereo amp with a DAC and digital inputs or a separate DAC then the optical output from the player would be fine for music. A topping E30 is a decent cheap option for a DAC. It also has a USB input you could use with your phone and laptop

 

vectra1

Active Member
This maybe asking you more questions than answers but I'll add a few thoughts.

Are you wanting to use the same system for both surround and music or have a sperate stereo system. Your current 2600 doesn't have pre-amp outputs for the front channels which makes adding a stereo amp more difficult.


Definitely Maybe! certainly I would be but a mate of mine upgraded to a similar Denon X2400 from a Bluetooth speaker and thinks it sounds good for music.
It would be fair to say I'd expect it to be poor for stereo compared to a similar cost stereo amp.


An idea of budget would help.


If you bought a stereo amp with a DAC and digital inputs or a separate DAC then the optical output from the player would be fine for music. A topping E30 is a decent cheap option for a DAC. It also has a USB input you could use with your phone and laptop


@Jamie
Thanks for the reply.

1)
Convenience would be my only reason to use an "all in one "
Personally I would prefer seperate amp/speakers for music.

2)
Budget.
hmm.
Up to 2k euro. ( Less if at all possible.)

3)
The amp either with or without a DAC using the E30 if needed.
You are saying my dvd player would be perfectly fine for playing CD's?
Or would a dedicated player be much of an improvement?
Taking into consideration that each extra item I buy would be taking from the budget.
Could I also use the DAC in the amp or seperate to stream from my 2600 ?
Or am I thinking wrong?
Thanks again.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
The DVD player, used as a transport, should be a pretty good job of playing CDs. It's not going to be as good as a standalone CD player but if you are using the Denon then you'll be losing any potential gains in that area.

To get a good stereo music performance you really do need to have a stereo integrated. Even a modest one is going to sound a lot better than a Denon X2600. If you have to use an AV amp as a one box solution then perhaps you should look at one that has scope for further upgrades to the system and for that you will need pre-outs. That puts you into the X3XXX models territory.

No matter what music source that goes into the X2600 it's going to have to use that amps pre-amp section even with a standalone streamer attached. It's not impossible to use the X2600 alongside an integrated stereo amp and use the same front speakers. The solution is to use a speaker switch such as the Beresford 7220. It's a cheaper and effective way of having your cake and eating it for music and films.

 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
I’m still a little confused.

Are you happy to have two entirely separate set ups?

The current one for films and tv and a new stereo system for music?
 

vectra1

Active Member
@gibbsy
When you say not as good as a dedicated cd player,
On a scale of 1 to 10. Where would the dvd be in comparison to a cd player?

@gibbsy @Paul7777x

I think it may be as well to go seperate for music and use what I have just for Movies.

If I were to buy a decent amp and speakers.
Would the dvd player suffice or would I be better off buying seperate ?
Can I use the 2600 to stream and hook that up to the amp? or again should I go seperate?
As I said above, the more components I purchase, will take funds from my budget, thus meaning I would have to take a step down in amp/speakers.

If you wouldn't mind.
I am in Ireland so literally have 4 outlets to purchase from.
Maybe you could have a quick look at what they sell and advise me?
I want to get this right.

1)
Richer sounds Belfast

2)
The HiFi hut Dublin

3)
Savins in Limerick

4)
Cloney Audio Dublin <<< These might be a bit over my budget

5)
Kronosav

Thanks
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
There are few ‘bargains to be had there alas, but these two are both considered quite special. And it’s a great price for the QAs.



The dac in the Arcam is excellent and will certainly make your cds from the Panasonic sound very good.

Unfortunately and unbelievably, the Denon does not have a digital output, so it won’t be possible to use the dac in the Arcam to play all of the Denon network goodies.

You will however be able to use the zone two outputs into the Arcams analogue inputs to play all of the streaming services from the the Denon into the Arcam.

I think you’ll find the pairing a significant upgrade for stereo listening.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Here are a couple of useful reviews from AVF.


 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Ps, if you feel the need to add a separate streamer to the Arcam instead of the Denons outputs, this is probably the best pound for pound.

 

gibbsy

Moderator
When you say not as good as a dedicated cd player,
On a scale of 1 to 10. Where would the dvd be in comparison to a cd player?
Depends on the DVD player and the CD player. A high end DVD player will be as good as a low mid tier CD player. The Oppo players are excellent, so are some of the Pioneers. If you have an entry point DVD player from LG, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic then a good CD player such as the excellent Marantz cd6006/7 is certainly going to out perform them.

Although both DVD and CD player basically do the same job in reading discs the CD player has only one function. It's build and DAC is only designed for one format and there some very good CD players available at the moment. The higher you get up the CD player tier the better the performance gets. Not because they actually read the discs better but the way that digital signal is portrayed in the analogue domain.

Build quality, vibration suppression, clock correction and finally the actual analogue part of the CD player goes into making the audio better. I would only consider a standalone CD player if you are going to use it's analogue section and therefore it's own DAC into a stereo amp.

I've had a lot of CD players and DVD/Blu ray players of late. I would say that my Marantz cd6006 had a comparable performance of my Pioneer LX500 for redbook playback. There was not a lot in it but the cd6006 is about 40% of the cost of the Pioneer. That's how good I think the Marantz is. I also own two standalone stereo SACD players and both outperform the Pioneer but you do have to pay for the privilege.
 

vectra1

Active Member
Thanks for the suggestions.
@Paul7777x
I appreciate your suggestion on the Arcam amp. I can understand it would be a super unit, but, ( this is going to sound silly ) I dont like the look of it.
Sorry about that.

How about this.
Denon PMA800-ne Amp
Denon dce 800-ne cd player
Denon dnp800-ne streamer.

Dali Oberon 3 ?
Fyne Audio F303?

This is only a suggestion :)
 
Last edited:

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Thanks for the suggestions.
@Paul7777x
I appreciate your suggestion on the Arcam amp. I can understand it would be a super unit, but, ( this is going to sound silly ) I dont like the look of it.
Sorry about that.

How about this.
Denon PMA800-ne Amp
Denon dce 800-ne cd player
Denon dnp800-ne streamer

Dali Oberon 3 ?
Fyne Audio F303?

This is only a suggestion :)

Fair enough sir, they look better in the flesh... but it is something that has to be considered.

The Oberons, whilst good indeed by all accounts aren’t really up to the standard of the QAs.

Nor is the Denon up to the standard of the Arcam.

And again, the Denon streamer, whilst pretty and whatnot does nothing that the Yamaha does not do. And is therefore around £300 overpriced if sound quality is the only concern.

And a CD player is also perhaps overkill. You don’t often play cds as you say, and the 4K player into a good dac input would be very good indeed.

What you’ve chosen would indeed sound very nice and look good, but for your budget and your requested absolute sound quality, it would not be optimal.

Having said that I’m pretty sure you’d enjoy it.
 
Last edited:

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
I have a second suggestion.

It may be better for you to simply replace your receiver with one that plays music (and films) appreciably better than does your current Denon.

That would be an Anthem MRX. Either the MRX 310, 510 or 710 (all used) will very much improve upon the Denon for films, but most especially for music.

(Such as this one for instance, I’m not sure what the import fees would be though.)


ARC is also a considerable upgrade in itself.

Then I’d go for the Dali Oberons (possibly Ikons, as they are now available at a discount through being replaced by the MKIIs) across the front (including the centre speaker) the 5s in particular being an improvement on the budget Spektors. A league above.

Everything else can remain the same and any budget concerns can be alleviated by selling the Denon and the Spektors plus the Vokal.
 
Last edited:

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
...but, if you’d still prefer to stick to a stereo only system then I’d add this to the QA 40s.


And the Yamaha streamer.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Ps, as you’re using the laptop as a streamer (always best imo) then adding the Topping E30 to it using the USB input would be a better idea than the Yamaha.

Then adding the E30 to the Rega would give you something rather special indeed.
 

vectra1

Active Member
@Paul7777x
Again thanks for taking the time to research and suggest different options for me.

first off I would prefer to buy new over used. ( I know, thats just me :) )
Next,
You say the denon setup would sound "good",
Would something like Marantz
PM6007 amp
CD6007 cd player
NA6006 streamer
Speakers???? < Either floor or standmound, sound better than the Denon setup?

As for speakers,
I should have mentioned, I do not have a dedicated room for listening. I will be using my sitting room with furniture, carpet, etc. So I assume I will need a non fussy speaker for placement?

My music type,
Pink Floyd
Dire Straits,
Led Zepplin
Leonard Cohen etc.
Also listen to a lot of 80's music from my era. :)

I understand you say the Arcam or the Rega would be superior, using the Yamaha for streaming and my 4k player for CD's, and I truly believe you.

I know, I am full of questions and am taking on board everythnig suggested.
Thanks
 
Last edited:

gibbsy

Moderator
CD6007 cd player
I own both a Denon and a Marantz CD player and there are subtle differences between the two. The Marantz does offer it reknowned warm signature, very good for Leonard Cohen and other singer songwriters that have a more acoustic sound, it's musical for sure. Floyd and Zep may, I emphasis may because me Denon player is their top spec, sound a little better with Zep certainly and very detailed on Floyd. I put this down to the AL32 processor that you'll find onboard the Denons.

If I had to choose between the Marantz cd6007 or the Denon DCD 800 NE then it would be the Marantz. Above that level you would be looking at the Marantz nd8006 or the Denon DCD 1600 NE, now the tables are turned as the Denon is superior, although the nd8006 is also a streamer, but on CD playback the Denon is better. I'm basing my experience with the Marantz based on the sa8005 and I don't think the nd8006 comes close to it.

As for amps then Rega produce some of the best sounding amps in their respective prices zones.
 

vectra1

Active Member
I own both a Denon and a Marantz CD player and there are subtle differences between the two. The Marantz does offer it reknowned warm signature, very good for Leonard Cohen and other singer songwriters that have a more acoustic sound, it's musical for sure. Floyd and Zep may, I emphasis may because me Denon player is their top spec, sound a little better with Zep certainly and very detailed on Floyd. I put this down to the AL32 processor that you'll find onboard the Denons.

If I had to choose between the Marantz cd6007 or the Denon DCD 800 NE then it would be the Marantz. Above that level you would be looking at the Marantz nd8006 or the Denon DCD 1600 NE, now the tables are turned as the Denon is superior, although the nd8006 is also a streamer, but on CD playback the Denon is better. I'm basing my experience with the Marantz based on the sa8005 and I don't think the nd8006 comes close to it.

As for amps then Rega produce some of the best sounding amps in their respective prices zones.
So, would you go with the 3 Marantz units above?
and what speakers?
Thanks
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
@Paul7777x
Again thanks for taking the time to research and suggest different options for me.

first off I would prefer to buy new over used. ( I know, thats just me :) )
Next,
You say the denon setup would sound "good",
Would something like Marantz
PM6007 amp
CD6007 cd player
NA6006 streamer
Speakers???? < Either floor or standmound, sound better than the Denon setup?

As for speakers,
I should have mentioned, I do not have a dedicated room for listening. I will be using my sitting room with furniture, carpet, etc. So I assume I will need a non fussy speaker for placement?

My music type,
Pink Floyd
Dire Straits,
Led Zepplin
Leonard Cohen etc.
Also listen to a lot of 80's music from my era. :)

I understand you say the Arcam or the Rega would be superior, using the Yamaha for streaming and my 4k player for CD's, and I truly believe you.

I know, I am full of questions and am taking on board everythnig suggested.
Thanks

Both the Denon and the Marantz set up you’ve suggested are all top class stuff in their price range and it’s hard to imagine anyone being unhappy with them.

But... the next step up, as it were, in this case the Rega amp, is not a small one.

And, although both the Marantz and Denon streamers are good looking things and would look great in a matched set up, they are overpriced for what you want.

That means 300 spent for nothing except prettiness really. No sound quality gain.

But that extra £300 spent on speakers makes a marked improvement all round.

I get the impression that you really want a matched set. And many people do.

I once had a gorgeous looking four box Naim set. I loved it. Looked awesome (sounded great too).

The only reason I’m harping on about the extra quality to be expected from say the Regas and the QAs is because for your budget it’s possible to get some serious hifi, and while the Denon and Marantz are good stuff, they are a league or two beneath the Rega and the Arcam and the Q Acoustics standard.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Ps, you seem to very much short changed in Ireland for hifi bargains.

There are practically no discounts or bargains at all. For instance Rega speakers are massively overpriced compared to the UK.

There are always discounts, offers and end of line bargains. But I can find none in the four shops you mentioned.

I’m wondering if it’s a cartel or something... no sign of competition there at all :eek:
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Then there’s these from the legendary Rotel.



You could still afford the QA Concept 40s with these as well. The best I can find in your budget.


Though you'd still need to add the Yamaha streamer or a dac to your laptop.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
So, would you go with the 3 Marantz units above?
and what speakers?
Thanks
I think you've been given very good advice above. The Marantz combination is tempting as is the pm7000 and speaker deal that has been linked. I do like the Marantz CD players I've owned in the past and currently own but I find Marantz amps to be a little too safe, lacking some drive and the Rega amps will perform better and that's the amps that I go for.

Remember though that what ever is mentioned on here is just suggestions or pointers at what you should be looking for. The final decision rests with you and you must ensure that you audition the various bits of kit. Auditions can be really simple, just pick the ones that put the biggest smile on your face.
 

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