New Susano receiver too expensive for Europe..

[Ssak]

There are information that SC-LX90 price will be 7999 euros and about 6000-6400£

I remind you that the price in US is 7000$ (under 4500 euros !!!)

That is a steal for me if the info is correct.....​

 

[Mark.Yudkin]

AV-Land lists it at £5000. The list price in Japan is JPY880000 (USD 8400, GBP 4300), so I'd also question your USD price quote (it's a decent discount).

However, after paying for the shipping of a 35.5kg package, paying import duties and VAT, adding a suitable transformer and losing all warranties, I'm not sure buying a US version will be the "steal" you think it is. You should also clarify if important European functionality is missing, as it is with so many US-versions of AV receiver (RDS, PAL).

 

[Ssak]

Check the price from PriceJapan.com ....

4900 euros... Price sent to Europe....

Do you really think that RDS and shipping costs 3000euros ??

I just say that the price differences seems to me that importers make money from European buyers....
And its not Susano only...

I must say that I would expect from a customer not to defend the huge price diffrence....

 

[Ssak]

5300Euros to Greece with the shiping cost paid from
Pricejapan .....

I don't think that importers pay the same shiping cost amount as me.....


The same happens with so many electrronic devices
(Sony PS3 is another example)..


Bottom Line :

When US dolars goes up everything goes up (in Euro)....
When US dolars goes down prices stay the same....

 

[Mark.Yudkin]

PriceJapan.com lists the lowest advertised price of any supplier, not the list price. You are comparing lowest advertised prices with European list price, and that yields price differences due to discounting. You are also failing to consider duties and VAT, which can be quite hefty in EC:

Q. Does "Price" on your site include VAT in receiving country?
A. Not included.

Moreover, there are other issues which make a big difference. For example http://pricejapan.com/front/e_warranty.php states:

Warranty is valid only in Japan for 1 year. It is not valid in your country.
International warranty or more than 1 year warranty will NOT be applied.
When machines need warrant repair, you should send machines to makers in Japan, via us.
Shipping cost of Item's round trip will be your burden(roughly $150-300 in case of projectors)

As you say "it's a real steal"!

 

[Ssak]

Compare these two products from the same company ...

S-1EX speakers from Pioneer (Made in China)

Weight 160 Kg (package)

US price : 9000 $

Europe Price : 7600 Euro


SC-LX 90 : Receiver from (Made in Malaysia)

Weight 41 Kg (package)

US price : 7000 $

Europe Price : 8000 Euro

Why ????

Am I missing something ????

 

[Mark.Yudkin]

Am I missing something ????

You completely failed to name your price sources, and once again, the prices you list are not even remotely similar to those I find. It seems as if you like to quote the lowest, no warranty, internet-based, foreign price against the highest European price in some exotic location that you can find.

So for example, AV-Land lists the S-1EX at £4000, which is €5030, way below your quote. Interestingly I found a local quote from an authorized Pioneer dealer over here at CHF 4000 - that's under €2500, and is less than your US quote - although the list price seems to be more like CHF6000. I was in fact totally unable to find any offers even close to the €7600 you mention.

I've already addressed your imaginary €8000 price quote for the SC-LX 90.

 

[Ssak]

Mark check these official price catalogues from Italy and France..

S-1EX costs 7800 in Italy, 7000 in France and 7600 in Germany (Price in Euros)

You can find the suggested retail price in

www.pioneerelectronics.com (US)
www. pioneer.co.jp (YEN)

and in the attached pdf files.... (from Pioneer.it and Pioneer.fr)

AVLAND 4000GBP you mention is street price .

Info about the price of SC-LX90 here :

http://www.patounemedia.net/2008/05/13/pioneer-susano-sc-lx90/
http://fr.cinenow.com/articles/8224-pioneer-susano-sc-lx90-prix-disponibilite-enfin-annonces


Now compare these two products from the same company ...

S-1EX speakers from Pioneer (Made in China)
Weight 160 Kg (package)
US price : 9000 $
Europe Price : 7600 Euro (Germany)
Japan price 1.050.000 Yen

SC-LX 90 : Receiver (Made in Malaysia)
Weight 41 Kg (package)
US price : 7000 $
Europe Price : 8000 Euro (if it is true)
Japan price 880.000Yen

-- S-1EX weights 4 times the SC-LX 90,(shiping cost)
-- S-1EX are 2000$ more expensive from SC-LX90 in US and 170.000 yen in Japan
-- S-1EX were priced cheaper in Europe! from the SC-LX 90
--notice that when they were priced (2 years
ago),euro was NOT that strong against dollar...


Maybe SC-LX90 is a bargain even for 8000Euros ..
The question is how that price (if true) is justified according to its price in US and Japan.....


​

 

[Mark.Yudkin]

I do not see how a cinenow future announcement indicating that a product will be coming and giving an estimated price can be construed as a purchase price. Especially when every other source gives a different price. I've already said that you need to stop using "the highest European price in some exotic location that you can find."

Completely pointless is citing a November 2007 price list in Italian or a September 2007 price list in Dutch and French (both including national VAT, which you studiously ignore although it's quite hefty in both countries), given the size of the currency movements in the past 6 / 8 months and the corresponding price adjustments that this has caused (USD to EUR: 11.8% since September). These two factors alone explain 30%.

This subject is closed.

 

[Ettepet]

I fail to see why so many here attack the OP who raises a very true issue for (main land) European customers.

The price of the Pioneer Susano is not at the (normal?!) high European price level, it is absurdly expensive.

There is literaly no good excuse why we have to pay so much more than elsewhere.

 

[Ettepet]

A couple of forumers here should either identify themselves as "in the business" or get their facts together:

- price from factory => should be about the same
- shipment price to Europe / US => should not differ too much
- taxes, duties, etc. => these amount to 20-25%
- localisation (translation of manual, etc.) => small cost, manual mostly

In the US / Japan we quickly see competitive pricing, with discounts far below the original quoted price ($7000). In my country f.i. these type of prices stay very close to the quoted (8000 euro) price level. This effectively means > double the price where only maybe 30-35% can be defended - and (Europe) 50-60% expected.

ps: UK prices are considerably lower than those in mainland Europe because of the low GB Pound.

 

[hornydragon]

There is literaly no good excuse why we have to pay so much more than elsewhere.

Except to Fund Pioneers lavish press release Junkets in sunny locations..... If you dont want to pay the official €Price then import one. Its not difficult to comprehend Europe especially western Europe is expensive, an Expensive place to live. look at avergae wages, fuel, land etc

 

[Ettepet]

Except to Fund Pioneers lavish press release Junkets in sunny locations..... If you dont want to pay the official €Price then import one. Its not difficult to comprehend Europe especially western Europe is expensive, an Expensive place to live. look at avergae wages, fuel, land etc

I buy more than half my gear from abroad.

That still leaves no excuse for these price tactics. It just helps to keep the audio market more niche over here.

 

[Ssak]

Mark quote : "I've already said that you need to stop using "the highest European price in some exotic location that you can find."

- I haven't understand that the France , Germany and Italy are "exotic locations "
- You haven't understand that what you say as "highest prices" are in fact the Suggested Retail Prices in all these countries and from Official Pioneer Importers..

Mark quote : "Completely pointless is citing a November 2007 price list in Italian or a September 2007 price list in Dutch and French (both including national VAT, which you studiously ignore although it's quite hefty in both countries), given the size of the currency movements in the past 6 / 8 months and the corresponding price adjustments that this has caused (USD to EUR: 11.8% since September). These two factors alone explain 30%."

- You haven't understand (or you don't want to....) that November and September price list prices are not in favour but the opposite.... cause simply today Euro is stonger to US dollar and to Yen ....

So if the S-1EX (9000$ and 1.050.00yen) were imported today ,their Official price would be much lower than 7000 Euros making the price tag of 8000euros for a SC-LX90 (7.000$ and 88000 yen) even more unjustified...

 

[Alicatt]

Recently bought a Pioneer DVR LX70 in the UK it cost a shade more than £700, Couldn't get a quote for the same model here in Belgium but I did find a DVR LX60 in a local shop and it was on sale for €1295 or slightly more than £1000, in the UK the same model is just under £350, it is more than the diffrence in VAT or BTW (21% in Belgium) I was looking for a 50" 508D flat screen but the prices, even for a 5080 were so high that I'll wait until I get back to the UK and pick one up myself.

 

[Mark.Yudkin]

A price list is set based on the cost of the product at the time the price is set - meaning it considers exchange rates when it's imported. Subsequent currency movements affect not only the current import price, but simultaneously and equivalently affect the list price, by exactly the same factor. This is primary school arithmetic.

Your refusal to quote current pricing is responsible for much of the rubbish you're talking. Instead you keep quoting ancient European prices for pieces of equipment, that list prices that nobody is charging today. Most of the rest of the differences are caused by your considering heavy discounts in the home markets (especially warrantee-less internets sales) against (out-of-date) list prices and ignoring VAT, and duties.

The official CH Panasonic price list giving official CHF lists prices, including all applicable taxes, can be found here. That price lists lists all products that were available for purchase at the time the list was issued (no future or discontinued products). The prices can be bettered by shopping with the usual local discounters.

 

[Ettepet]

Your rant is obviously targeted at someone else in this thread, but...

A price list is set based on the cost of the product at the time the price is set - meaning it considers exchange rates when it's imported. Subsequent currency movements affect not only the current import price, but simultaneously and equivalently affect the list price, by exactly the same factor. This is primary school arithmetic.

Sure. We see this with European fuel prices every day.

With high-end audio prices I have seen none of this so called "primary school arithmetic". Prices stay relatively high regardless of exchange rates.

I don't expect to see street prices for the Susano in mainland Europe at or below 6000 euro. I hope I'm wrong though..

 

[Ettepet]

The question remains why so many here defend high pricing in stead of taking interest in the consumer side.

 

[Helicon]

I defend mainly because of who the 'consumer' blame for these prices.

 

[Member 639844]

This is a sore subject for me. I hate the way we get ripped of, especially in England. There is a bit of exchange rate influence but it doesn't account for the difference in the end. A lot of the time two products are made in the same factory and yet they can still be twice the price in Britain. It makes me laugh when people defend this, especially when some UK made products are sold cheaper in foreign countries than they are here, the place they were manufactured.

Trouble is, what can we honestly do about it. Unless your buying some really expensive equipment and taking a trip to get it yourself there's nothing we can really do apart from ordering products of the net were possible.

 

[Alicatt]

This is a sore subject for me. I hate the way we get ripped of, especially in England. There is a bit of exchange rate influence but it doesn't account for the difference in the end. A lot of the time two products are made in the same factory and yet they can still be twice the price in Britain. It makes me laugh when people defend this, especially when some UK made products are sold cheaper in foreign countries than they are here, the place they were manufactured.

Trouble is, what can we honestly do about it. Unless your buying some really expensive equipment and taking a trip to get it yourself there's nothing we can really do apart from ordering products of the net were possible.

I live in Belgium and in Scotland, I'm currently looking at upgrading my home cinema for my new house in Belgium. I have been shocked at the prices in the shops here for electrical goods, the prices I quoted are ones I seen on the stickers in the shops here. Not only electrical goods are expensive here but insurance prices are diabolical too, I got a quote for my car in the UK of £358 fully comp and in Belgium of 2400euro third party only (11% NCD) Britain is not the big rip off you all think it is! Printer cartridges are another item that is expensive here if I buy Epson cartridges here I can expect to pay almost double than what I can buy Epson ones from Tesco in the UK.
Last summer I had a show to put on in the local town hall and my projector broke down that day and I could not get a replacement lamp for it, so I bought a new projector (was wanting to upgrade anyway) I bought an Infocus IN76 it was the best I could get at short notice and has served me well but I fouond that I could have saved about £300 buying it in the UK. Cameras are the same, as are lenses I know BTW(VAT) is 25% on electrical goods here but it does not justify the big price diffrence between here and the UK.
PS. the Susano is on my list for auditioning for the new house

 

[Member 639844]

I live in Belgium and in Scotland, I'm currently looking at upgrading my home cinema for my new house in Belgium. I have been shocked at the prices in the shops here for electrical goods, the prices I quoted are ones I seen on the stickers in the shops here. Not only electrical goods are expensive here but insurance prices are diabolical too, I got a quote for my car in the UK of £358 fully comp and in Belgium of 2400euro third party only (11% NCD) Britain is not the big rip off you all think it is! Printer cartridges are another item that is expensive here if I buy Epson cartridges here I can expect to pay almost double than what I can buy Epson ones from Tesco in the UK.
Last summer I had a show to put on in the local town hall and my projector broke down that day and I could not get a replacement lamp for it, so I bought a new projector (was wanting to upgrade anyway) I bought an Infocus IN76 it was the best I could get at short notice and has served me well but I fouond that I could have saved about £300 buying it in the UK. Cameras are the same, as are lenses I know BTW(VAT) is 25% on electrical goods here but it does not justify the big price diffrence between here and the UK.
PS. the Susano is on my list for auditioning for the new house

Not entirely sure about this one, but Ive heard in the past that the tax system on your income in belgium is different as well is everything else and that it balances out in the long run so your no better or worse of. I could be wrong, but either way we're both being ripped off.

I bought a Bose system for £2300 about 6 years ago thats now sold on, but at the time I went on holiday to Thailand (about 6 months after the purchase) and was shocked to see the same thing on sale in Dubai for £800. Now tell me how that works out when the UK is closer to the European factory they are built in than Dubai is, and explain how we arent that bad off?