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New Sub £650 budget Advice

Jrain

Standard Member
Hi everyone,

I'm a new member here but have been looking on and off here for a few years. I'd like to get a new sub and would like some advice please.

I've currently got a Rel Strata III that I picked up 8 years ago 2nd hand. It's treated me well, but I'd like some bigger and deeper bass.
The sub is going to be paired up with 5 Tannoy DC6 LCR’s.
My usage is 90% movies / 10% music.
It's for my living room around 3m x 5m in a bungalow with carpet / concrete floors.

My budget is up to £650, so far the ones I’ve been looking at now and in the past, have been:

BK P12-300SB-PR
SVS PB-1000
SVS SB-1000
SVS SB-1000 pro
SVS PB-1000 pro
I’ve also considered other BK subs like the monolith, but they’re just too big.

I’m wondering are the new SVS pro’s worth getting over the older ones or the BK? I know there are discounts now on the older SVS models.

Initially I only want one, but would be open at some point longer in the future to get another one.

Or are there any other ones you’d recommend getting in this price range?

Thanks
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
PB1000 Pro without doubt from that list with 650£ budget! The change from 10" driver to 12", new cabinet/port design and new more powerfull amp is well worth it over the old one! Data shows considerable 3-4db higher output in the mid-bass range over old one and it has quite strong low end offering you different experience to Rel 10" 100w.

You should contact @Tom @ Cinehome and ask about AVF member discount for best price! In stock & free delivery also!

 

Tom @ Cinehome

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
I'd agree 100%. The PB1000 Pro would be ideal in that space and for your 90% movie use. Please don't hesitate to get in touch if we can assist further. We're Cambridgeshire based. Best, Tom
 

Jrain

Standard Member
PB1000 Pro without doubt from that list with 650£ budget! The change from 10" driver to 12", new cabinet/port design and new more powerfull amp is well worth it over the old one! Data shows considerable 3-4db higher output in the mid-bass range over old one and it has quite strong low end offering you different experience to Rel 10" 100w.

You should contact @Tom @ Cinehome and ask about AVF member discount for best price! In stock & free delivery also!

Thanks so much for the quick reply and after spending a lot of time researching these, that's the conclusion I came to also. I had orginally thought about around the £500 range, but after reading about the new PB1000 pro thought I should up my budget as it looks really good. I've enjoyed my Rel, but do think the new one will offer a whole new experience as it does feel lacking at times.

That's great hear about the discount from Tom and I've seen he has already replied, so will get in touch.

I did however see this morning, that you can get a SVS refurb PC2000 with full guarantee for just over £700. Is that also worth considering do you think? Or should I just go with the PB1000 Pro?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks so much for the quick reply and after spending a lot of time researching these, that's the conclusion I came to also. I had orginally thought about around the £500 range, but after reading about the new PB1000 pro thought I should up my budget as it looks really good. I've enjoyed my Rel, but do think the new one will offer a whole new experience as it does feel lacking at times.

That's great hear about the discount from Tom and I've seen he has already replied, so will get in touch.

I did however see this morning, that you can get a SVS refurb PC2000 with full guarantee for just over £700. Is that also worth considering do you think? Or should I just go with the PB1000 Pro?

Yes PC2000 is option too if you like the cylinder shape, taking less floorspace but it´s good bit taller. It will be even stronger below 40hz down to 16hz, but suprisingly the new PB1000 Pro has edge over 50hz so it can put out some serious mid-bass. Probably meaningless things for normal person who never reaches limits so both would work great in your space and the PB1000 Pro still has some serious low end especially in your rather smallish room. The new Pro model has the phone app control with manual PEQ and if you want later to add 2nd you can find it easily as with the PC2000 you have to wait until 2nd hand option comes. That is if you ever fancy dual subwoofers. There is clear benefits with duals (not just getting more bass) so i think it´s something to consider now regarding the size. With this hobby i have learned over the years that never say never!



I think the decision ultimately comes down to is the cylinder shape better for you, will it allow better placement options perhaps and/or just taking less space general. But can you live with the "special looks".

PS. If you live close to Essex @paulst10 is selling 4month old PC2000 Pro for 700£/each which is mega deal! Just saying. :) Warranty can be transfered to new owner with SVS products.
 

Jrain

Standard Member
Yes PC2000 is option too if you like the cylinder shape, taking less floorspace but it´s good bit taller. It will be even stronger below 40hz down to 16hz, but suprisingly the new PB1000 Pro has edge over 50hz so it can put out some serious mid-bass. Probably meaningless things for normal person who never reaches limits so both would work great in your space and the PB1000 Pro still has some serious low end especially in your rather smallish room. The new Pro model has the phone app control with manual PEQ and if you want later to add 2nd you can find it easily as with the PC2000 you have to wait until 2nd hand option comes. That is if you ever fancy dual subwoofers. There is clear benefits with duals (not just getting more bass) so i think it´s something to consider now regarding the size. With this hobby i have learned over the years that never say never!



I think the decision ultimately comes down to is the cylinder shape better for you, will it allow better placement options perhaps and/or just taking less space general. But can you live with the "special looks".

PS. If you live close to Essex @paulst10 is selling 4month old PC2000 Pro for 700£/each which is mega deal! Just saying. :) Warranty can be transfered to new owner with SVS products.
Thanks for such an amazing and detailed reply :)
I can't tell you how helpful it is to read all of this as there is only so much you can learn from research alone and real world knowledge is invaluable!

I had some of the same thoughts too about the PC2000 and now knowing the PB1000 pro has the edge at 50hz and can still get really low, especially considering where I'm coming from, seems to be the most sensible option. I might move in the future, but in all likelihood, somewhere new would probably have a similar size living room and if the the PB1000 pro can comfortably fill my space that's all I needed to know.

And I do really like the look of it and like that it's a newer model that won't cause me any problems if I wish to get another in the future. This is something that I've considered, but just need to get a good one first and go from there!

I'm also really attracted to the easier phone control, although understand once it's setup you probably won't need to use it often, but it's a great feature to have.

Thanks for including the link to the 2nd have PC2000 pros and also gives me another better option if I was going for the cylinder shape. I'm not quite closer enough to Paul for an easy drive and I'm guessing shipping is going to be really expensive.

I heard SVS offer this trade up option in the US, but guess this isn't available over here as we order through dealers?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks for such an amazing and detailed reply :)
I can't tell you how helpful it is to read all of this as there is only so much you can learn from research alone and real world knowledge is invaluable!

I had some of the same thoughts too about the PC2000 and now knowing the PB1000 pro has the edge at 50hz and can still get really low, especially considering where I'm coming from, seems to be the most sensible option. I might move in the future, but in all likelihood, somewhere new would probably have a similar size living room and if the the PB1000 pro can comfortably fill my space that's all I needed to know.

And I do really like the look of it and like that it's a newer model that won't cause me any problems if I wish to get another in the future. This is something that I've considered, but just need to get a good one first and go from there!

I'm also really attracted to the easier phone control, although understand once it's setup you probably won't need to use it often, but it's a great feature to have.

Thanks for including the link to the 2nd have PC2000 pros and also gives me another better option if I was going for the cylinder shape. I'm not quite closer enough to Paul for an easy drive and I'm guessing shipping is going to be really expensive.

I heard SVS offer this trade up option in the US, but guess this isn't available over here as we order through dealers?

No the bill of rights doesn´t sadly apply in UK/Europe. :(

Contact Tom for pricing and hopefully you get one fast so let`s see your thoughts.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member

Jrain

Standard Member
No the bill of rights doesn´t sadly apply in UK/Europe. :(

Contact Tom for pricing and hopefully you get one fast so let`s see your thoughts.
I had a feeling that would be the case, but thanks for confirming!

I've got to get a few things in order, but fingers crossed I'll be ordering it in the next 1.5 weeks.

Then of course I'll come back and let you know how I get on :)
 

veedub

Active Member
I recently purchased a PB1000 Pro for my living room, very happy with the performance. The remote App is excellent and mid bass performance is impressive, it also goes very low. It’s surisingly punchy but can still rumble when needed.

I also have dual Monolith Plus’s in the Cinema room for comparison - they are also excellent but are substantially bigger.

For your usage I would 100% recommended the PB1000 Pro, cracking sub.
 
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Jrain

Standard Member
No the bill of rights doesn´t sadly apply in UK/Europe. :(

Contact Tom for pricing and hopefully you get one fast so let`s see your thoughts.
Well after a bit of a delay, I got my PB-1000 pro today and managed to get it at the old prices.

I have a question though about the set-up. I followed the instructions and left the volume on -10 and run audyssey on my denon amp. After it finished it set the volume to -12 which I understand to be the lowest.

Then I read this from the SVS site:

  1. After the process is complete, take a look at the subwoofer level within the AV receiver or pre/pro.
    • In Denon, Marantz, and Onkyo AVRs, this value ranges from -12 to +12; in Pioneer and Yamaha AVRs, it's between -10 and +10.
  2. Did the AVR automatically set the subwoofer level at its lowest value?
    • If so, turn down the subwoofer's onboard level control and run the auto-setup routine again. Repeat until the automated subwoofer level in the AVR or pre/pro is not the lowest possible value.

My question is what volume should I turn the subwoofer down to before running audyssey again and then what should I be looking for as it's not mentioned in the manuals provided with the sub.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
My question is what volume should I turn the subwoofer down to before running audyssey again and then what should I be looking for as it's not mentioned in the manuals provided with the sub.
In my room (15ftx10ft) I had to set by dual SB2000 Pro's to -27dB in the app. This resulted in a post calibrated level of -5.5dB on my Denon 4500H. I then adjusted this level (up a few dB in the Denon itself (not the SVS app) to my taste.

which model AVR do you have?
 

Jrain

Standard Member
In my room (15ftx10ft) I had to set by dual SB2000 Pro's to -27dB in the app. This resulted in a post calibrated level of -5.5dB on my Denon 4500H. I then adjusted this level (up a few dB in the Denon itself (not the SVS app) to my taste.

which model AVR do you have?
I've got a denon x2300w and I choose to initally set the sub to the default -10 as per the instructions in the quick start guide. Then post calibration came in at the lowest, -12. I also adjusted this level up a few dB afterwards, but using the app to see what would happen.

I noticed the subwoofer distance was set higher by around 2m, so don't know if that's related or important.

How did you determine to start with -27dB and is there a target post calibration -dB I should be aiming for?
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
How did you determine to start with -27dB and is there a target post calibration -dB I should be aiming for?
My 4500H actually "told" me visually ( by means of an onscreen dB meter) that the subs were too high, during calibration. This meant that I could adjust the subs volume via the app in real time. The -27dB setting was what audessey was "happy with".

Unfortunately the 2300W doesn't have this. -10dB in the app means the subs volume is at 50%. Try -15 or -20dB in the app then rerun Audessey. I'd aim for the post calibrated level to be around -5dB in the Denon..

Edit: you could download a decibel meter app for your phone and use this to set the correct level in the SVS app. You want the meter to be reading around 78db - when seated in you MLP - as the test tone is being played to the sub during calibration.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I've got a denon x2300w and I choose to initally set the sub to the default -10 as per the instructions in the quick start guide. Then post calibration came in at the lowest, -12. I also adjusted this level up a few dB afterwards, but using the app to see what would happen.

I noticed the subwoofer distance was set higher by around 2m, so don't know if that's related or important.

How did you determine to start with -27dB and is there a target post calibration -dB I should be aiming for?

-12db is out of range if you meant "subwoofer level", the gain/volume was set too high. Run again with lower volume from the app and do 3mic positions to see does the subwoofer level drop below -12db. SVS recommends -8db to -4db, but depending also how hot you want to drive it as most people want to tweak that level by 3-6db post Audussey while still staying in the negative trim side.

It`s normal to see longer distance cause that is basically delay and the DSP in the subwoofer adds delay so leave it be.

@Jester1066 i wouldn`t use any phone app cause you need to have c-weighted and slow response SPL meter, i just don´t believe the phones mic is high enough quality. Audussey mic should be able to set things just fine assuming @Jrain knows the basics how to optimize the setup part and how mic should be positioned etc.

 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
@Jester1066 i wouldn`t use any phone app cause you need to have c-weighted and slow response SPL meter, i just don´t believe the phones mic is high enough quality. Audussey mic should be able to set things just fine assuming @Jrain knows the basics how to optimize the setup part and how mic should be positioned etc.
Fair point re the c-weighting etc....I forgot about that 👍🏼
 

Jrain

Standard Member
Thanks @Jester1066 for all your help and suggestions and it makes sense now. I'm not sure why SVS in the manual and on the help pages on the site don't explain this in a bit more detail.

I've started with -17dB and that came in at 7.5dB, so then tried -22dB which dropped to -2.5dB. I had one last go just now at -19dB and I have got -5.5dB. So hopefully that is about right now.

@Gasp3621 I did download a decibel app, but it was all over the show without any proper noise, so just uninstalled it as I thought it would be useless. I have seen on some of your previous posts you mentioning about only doing 3mic positions, but unless I'm missing something audyssey makes me do all 8 readings before I can see the values. I also try to do my best with the ear level mic in all positions.

I only had a quick play earlier when the av set it to -12dB and it sounded a bit boomy, but now it's on -5.5dB it sounds a lot better. Although will need a good play to properly see it in action.

@Gasp3621, I did wonder about changing the volume, so if it's not loud enough I can change the level in the app down from -19dB to around -14 -15dB so it still stays in the minus? I thought there must be a good reason for the distances being a lot larger than they really are, so will leave them as they are.

Thanks again for all your help in first helping me choose which one to buy and now with getting it set up!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks @Jester1066 for all your help and suggestions and it makes sense now. I'm not sure why SVS in the manual and on the help pages on the site don't explain this in a bit more detail.

I've started with -17dB and that came in at 7.5dB, so then tried -22dB which dropped to -2.5dB. I had one last go just now at -19dB and I have got -5.5dB. So hopefully that is about right now.

@Gasp3621 I did download a decibel app, but it was all over the show without any proper noise, so just uninstalled it as I thought it would be useless. I have seen on some of your previous posts you mentioning about only doing 3mic positions, but unless I'm missing something audyssey makes me do all 8 readings before I can see the values. I also try to do my best with the ear level mic in all positions.

I only had a quick play earlier when the av set it to -12dB and it sounded a bit boomy, but now it's on -5.5dB it sounds a lot better. Although will need a good play to properly see it in action.

@Gasp3621, I did wonder about changing the volume, so if it's not loud enough I can change the level in the app down from -19dB to around -14 -15dB so it still stays in the minus? I thought there must be a good reason for the distances being a lot larger than they really are, so will leave them as they are.

Thanks again for all your help in first helping me choose which one to buy and now with getting it set up!

I guess both ways are fine, but typically you don`t touch the knobs after setup so tweaking from receiver menu if you need more oomph so from -5,5db to -2,5db for example might do the trick. You have the low pass filter Off, phase 0 and what other stuff is there in the app... If it sounds good now then just enjoy. Some movies are bit heavier with bass and some are more anemic so it`s nice that you can tweak it from couch if you require bit more rumble. You also have Audussey Dynamic EQ (try different Offset 5/10/15db) for lower listening volume which is kinda loudness feature. You probably have the receiver subwoofer mode LFE and LPF for LFE 120hz and put some thought for speaker crossovers aswell. Then it should be all good.
 
D

Deleted member 901590

Guest
I then adjusted this level (up a few dB in the Denon itself (not the SVS app) to my taste.

I'm pretty sure that this is a stupid question.

With (pretty much) all AVR-X models, there is no way to increase the LFE level is there?

We can raise the subwoofer level but that also increases the levels of all of the crossed over bass too, which is rubbish, there is no way of just raising LFE?
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
I'm pretty sure that this is a stupid question.

With (pretty much) all AVR-X models, there is no way to increase the LFE level is there?

We can raise the subwoofer level but that also increases the levels of all of the crossed over bass too, which is rubbish, there is no way of just raising LFE?
By "level in the AVR" I meant the increasing the trim from the Audessey calibrated level. Doing this allows you to adjust the volume of the sub to increase bass.
 
D

Deleted member 901590

Guest
By "level in the AVR" I meant the increasing the trim from the Audessey calibrated level. Doing this allows you to adjust the volume of the sub to increase bass.

Hiya,

I know.

But you agree you cannot do what I'm asking?

The only way to do it would be if all your speakers were set to large and therefore there was no redirected bass to subwoofer. Then, the subwoofer would only be doing LFE, hence it's level and LFE level would be the same thing.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Hiya,

I know.

But you agree you cannot do what I'm asking?

The only way to do it would be if all your speakers were set to large and therefore there was no redirected bass to subwoofer. Then, the subwoofer would only be doing LFE, hence it's level and LFE level would be the same thing.
Yep agreed! My method just increases the overall output from the sub specifically.
 

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