New streamer and amp upgrade

Captain Col

Standard Member
I've moved my stereo into a larger room than it was previously, so it's now in a room that is 6m x 2.5m with a 3.5m high vaulted ceiling. Speakers are mounted 2m from the ground along the shortest wall with listener sitting at the other end of the room (so 5.5m away and ears about 1m below, but speakers tilted and angled to point at the listener).

System is a Cyrus 6XP (40w, 8ohm) into Monitor Audio Silver RX2 speakers (100w, 6ohm).

I'm pushing the amp a bit harder than I was previously and whilst it's not straining, I'm not getting a full sound. I have a budget of £5,000-6,000 to upgrade and wondering where best to put my money. I can't get floor standers sadly, so looking at.

A sub - either SVS sb-3000 or Monitor Audio Silver W12 to match the speakers
A streamer - as well as something like Tidal, all my CDs are ripped to FLAC using Exact Audio Copy so something that can play those files
A power amp

The streamer is very confusing as the starting point. I've mostly been looking at pre-amp DAC streamers rather than integrated but all seem to have their flaws. The HiFi Rose gear looks great but their own forums suggest they're full of bugs; Naim ND5 X2 seems more solid but lacks MQA (which I assume I would want) and limited connectivity; NAD c658 ticks the boxes on spec but again seems to have problems etc. I also have a Cyrus CD 6SE which I'd like to keep but thinking using the optical connection to a DAC would improve overall quality, perhaps? I'm going around in circles trying to figure things out.

On the amp, there's a reasonable package deal available on the NAD c658 + NAD c298 amp which will do 185w into 8ohm but I'm reading unfavourable things about Class D and not sure if that much power would damage my speakers, not that I'll be cranking it to the max. Or should I stick with the 6XP as a pre-amp and add in a Cyrus power amp coupled with a BlueSound Node?

I know I need to audition some stuff but since no shop does everything, I'm trying to figure out where to focus my attention first. I don't mind starting from scratch as I can use the existing system elsewhere.

Any thoughts on this jumble of information would be much appreciated!
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
I’d start again with that budget.

The amp (imo) is simple.


Plenty of current, an excellent streamer and the magnificent RoomPerfect.

Forget anything to the detriment of ‘class D’ amps. It’s simply luddites. Modern class D amps are simply and easily at least on par with class AB.

These top of the range Dali Epicons.

And one of these


Arguably all the hifi anyone might need.
 

Captain Col

Standard Member
Thanks Paul - I appreciate the response.

The Lyngdorf is a new one on me but certainly appears to come with high praise. The RoomPerfect is appealing in itself. I had thought it would be better to go for a multi-box approach but this is challenging that preconception.

What's the best quality I'm likely to get on streaming services using the 1120? I'm still learning about all of this and had only looked at the integrated support for Tidal MQA rather than UPNP via mconnect or Roon (which I still don't quite understand!)

Was the sub suggestion deliberate as I'd need something with high level input or does the 1120 support low level connections too? The SVS SB-3000 does appeal for various reasons.

And generally, any major advantage in going for the TDAI-3400? I note it has Tidal Connect for example. That would mean upgrading the speakers next year, which isn't a problem.
 

MaryWhitehouse

Well-known Member
In that room with speakers in that position +100 for the Lyngdorf. I’d suggest aim to get two subs in the end. Probably in diagonal corners but you’ll work out what’s best once you have them. The BK’s suggested would be perfect. Agreed with speakers start from scratch, you’ll get plenty of great suggestions. As for streamer I’ve not really found one I like for an interface but at least with the Lyngdorf it needn’t be expensive as you’ll only be sending a digital signal to the amp not paying for extra DAC’s. Have fun.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
The streaming quality of the 1120 is first class. I’m using it with my current AVI Trios (large £3400 floorstanders) and it constantly delights me.

Digital audio is currently superb. It is a sorted technology with thirty years of research behind it.

And the Lyngdorf variety really is simply plug in, play and enjoy. I can’t recommend it enough.

Buying a box full of separate digital components makes very little sense; the science and engineering behind them is now so exceptional that even cheap stuff is impressive. And the Lyngdorfs streamer section is anything but cheap.

For any given hifi, the money is always best spent on speakers. The best you can afford.

Next is the room, then amplification.

The 1120 solves both issues, and even at £2000 is, IMO, a genuine bargain.

As for subwoofers, the Lyngdorf allows for two. Both to be fully balanced with the speakers and, crucially, the room.

Room Perfect is a god sent toy for audio people, and twice so for those with even more room issues than can normally be expected.

There is no real need to spend as much on a sub as the SVS3000 range.

You do not, for instance, need any of the DSP found in many new sub ranges. The point of RP is to deal with all of that.

And the BK XXL400s are probably the best properly priced music subs around; coupled with RP, one will be a revelation, two, sublime.

And as a further point to discuss, anyone who can use standmounts can use floorstanders too.

They take up the same space, in fact many of the smaller floorstanders take up less volume and look considerably better than metal framework beneath a standmount.

With that in mind, consider these; a £5000 legend.


Here’s a review as to why you might like to;

 
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Captain Col

Standard Member
Thanks both.

The room is a real pain in terms of layout as it's a bit of a thoroughfare from living room to the garden. The speakers are on B-Tech BT77 wall brackets rather than on stands and you have to walk under the right speaker to get into the room, so floorstanders really aren't an option. It also means that a second sub isn't likely to be an option.

Anyway, I did think that a lot of the appeal of the SVS was its calibration options but shortly after posting, realised that RoomPerfect would address most of those issues.

So unless there's a compelling reason to go for the bigger Lyngdorf, I'm thinking I'll go 1120 + XXL400 (front firing version, getting the Speakon cable) and do some more speaker research, maxing my budget on these. The Dali Epicon 2 look lovely, and collection from Surrey from that eBay seller wouldn't be a massive issue, just not sure the curved sides would work in the brackets.

The help here has been wonderful!
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Thanks both.

The room is a real pain in terms of layout as it's a bit of a thoroughfare from living room to the garden. The speakers are on B-Tech BT77 wall brackets rather than on stands and you have to walk under the right speaker to get into the room, so floorstanders really aren't an option. It also means that a second sub isn't likely to be an option.

Anyway, I did think that a lot of the appeal of the SVS was its calibration options but shortly after posting, realised that RoomPerfect would address most of those issues.

So unless there's a compelling reason to go for the bigger Lyngdorf, I'm thinking I'll go 1120 + XXL400 (front firing version, getting the Speakon cable) and do some more speaker research, maxing my budget on these. The Dali Epicon 2 look lovely, and collection from Surrey from that eBay seller wouldn't be a massive issue, just not sure the curved sides would work in the brackets.

The help here has been wonderful!

Sounds like a plan... except DON’T use the speakon connections with the Lyngdorf. Sorry for shouting; but...

The amp will go bang.

Instead use the phono outputs from the 1120 into the subs L&R phono inputs.

Once set up like this then RP is a breeze to run.

Have you got a photo of the current set up and positioning? I’m a bit concerned about the B-tech brackets being happy with the mass and dimensions of the Epicons.
 

Captain Col

Standard Member
Noted - we don't want bangs! Why is that though?

If connecting a sub via the phono outs, does the amp know to not send bass signals to the speakers or is there a crossover setting to play with somewhere?

I can't get to a photo now but will try and get one when I can. The brackets are securely fixed and should hold 25kg each according to the specs. However, to do that without screwing into the side of the speaker, it would need the speakers to have flat sides which the Epicons don't appear to have. That seems to be the case with a lot of top-end speakers. Shame as I wanted to have a look at the Audiovector R1 series.
 

Captain Col

Standard Member
I’d add these to your list for consideration too.


Rather max’s your budget (with the 400 sub) but you will have a quite exceptional hifi.

Budget can be a bit fluid - it's more a question of sign-off, not that most on here need reminding of that.

I can also stick with the MA Silvers for a year and go bigger on new speakers in the future. That's why I've not completely ruled out the bigger 3400 for now if it's the right thing to do overall but equally don't want to waste money on potentially incremental improvements. I'm still not 100% on how I get Tidal or Qobuz to work with the 1120, which seems to be better integrated into the 3400. Spotify is useful but I'd want to be able to stream at least CD quality from somewhere.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Noted - we don't want bangs! Why is that though?

If connecting a sub via the phono outs, does the amp know to not send bass signals to the speakers or is there a crossover setting to play with somewhere?

I can't get to a photo now but will try and get one when I can. The brackets are securely fixed and should hold 25kg each according to the specs. However, to do that without screwing into the side of the speaker, it would need the speakers to have flat sides which the Epicons don't appear to have. That seems to be the case with a lot of top-end speakers. Shame as I wanted to have a look at the Audiovector R1 series.

The 1120 has full control over the separate x-over points for the speakers and subwoofer(s).

The user has a ton of set up options to choose from when setting up and integrating a sub. One of Lyngdorfs main reasons for being is the prowess of their sub integration.

A pity indeed about the wall brackets. The Epicons certainly deserve a listen, but if they can’t be fitted, then that’s that alas.

There is still a huge number of first class standmounts to choose from.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
I don’t use the streaming bit that much as I use my MacBook for iTunes and Spotify.

However I’ve used Qobuz through the DNLA (using the Mconnect player app) and it is excellent indeed.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Ps, the bang business was explained by Lyngdorf on the 1120 thread here. But I’ve completely forgotten the explanation 😔
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Have you considered high end in wall speakers?

They sound tailor made for your situation in particular.

There are a useful number to choose from and they tend to be less expensive than their standmount counterparts because the don’t have the expensive cabinets.

These, for instance are, the always super gorgeous, Sonus Faber in wall equivalent of the mighty Olympica series...

 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
And Dali do a large range too.

 

3rdignis

Active Member
On wall speakers aren't a compromise, but beneficial.


Priced individually
 

Captain Col

Standard Member
I hadn't considered in-wall speakers, or more honestly had written them off as a gimmick/compromise. I'll scrap that unfounded prejudice and give them some more thought.

I wish I was able to take a picture of the setup as it currently is. The below is a work-in-progress view of the shelving where the system currently resides. The finished shelves continue up to the apex, going all the way across the wall above the arch. To the right of the arch there is about a 10" bit of wall on the same plane, before getting to the corner of the room.

The left speaker is mounted on the wall bracket in the top left cube with the bracket fixed to the left bit of wood rather than the back wall to bring it a little further forward. It also has a 'cushion' behind to deaden the bass trap (I'm thinking of making an acoustic diffuser as an alternative). The shelves are 12" deep (aka the depth of a record).

If it matters, hifi sits in the left-hand cupboard. That's where the sub will live too, opening the cupboard or possibly lifting it out when listening. Underneath has been packed out with wood to create a solid base and then packed out with rockwool so there isn't a void.

I'll try and get a better picture soon but in the meantime, any further thoughts?

[Edit: removed picture]
 
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