New Speakers, or new system?

Flobs

Active Member
They are far from being the only speakers worth considering, as I noted. Personally I would give Dali's a wide birth as 4 Ohms and less isn't for me. I prefer more precission.
 

password1

Distinguished Member
They are far from being the only speakers worth considering, as I noted. Personally I would give Dali's a wide birth as 4 Ohms and less isn't for me. I prefer more precission.
The nominal ohmage has nothing to do with sound quality. Most decent amps with plenty of current will have no problem going down to 4 ohms. The nominal ohm rating is rated by the manufacturer..

My Dali Opticons for example are 4 ohm nominal but are relatively easy to drive as they don't drop below 4 ohms and go as high as 11 or 11.5 ohms from memory around around the 70-75hz region.

The resistance varies depending on frequency.
 

condordan

Standard Member
Thanks for your feedback.

I think you are right in that if I was switching to the Kef or B+W this would be quite a different sound compared to what I am used to, not necessarily better, but would definitely be different.

I've not been to any dealers to have any demos. I think I'd feel a bit awkward if I listented to a few things but wasn't 100% about them and then left without buying anything!

The NAD looks interesting, its got a bit more power than the Arcam and as you say could use the BlueOS for streaming.
Hi! You may listen to DALI... will be surprised by the warmth of the sound..:) got a pair of Zensor 7 for past 4 yrs, love them..
 

Flobs

Active Member
The nominal ohmage has nothing to do with sound quality. Most decent amps with plenty of current will have no problem going down to 4 ohms. The nominal ohm rating is rated by the manufacturer..

My Dali Opticons for example are 4 ohm nominal but are relatively easy to drive as they don't drop below 4 ohms and go as high as 11 or 11.5 ohms from memory around around the 70-75hz region.

The resistance varies depending on frequency.
Nonsense! ;)
The lower the impedence the more distortion, also the more the amp is pushed so more distortion from that as well. Low impedance just causes more and more distortion and less precission.
Just because there's amps that are efficient (but have greater distortion inherently) meaning low impedance speakers can be driven doesn't take away the physical handicaps.

Btw I have no problems with decissions people make. I make mine for myself but pulling the blind over peoples eyes isn't on. I am sure Dali's are fine speakers, just not as good as mine. 🤣
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Anyway sensitivity, ohm is the most important factors to consider. Power handling is not as important.

Still an amplifier around 50-100 watts would be my suggestion to people just beginning this hobby.

Then you need the correct amplifier sound wise too. The latter can be nightmare.
 

Flobs

Active Member

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
Dali most certainly does not sound soft. Punchy, wide sound stage.

It is reason they are of the most respected speaker manufacturers on the market.

Still this does not always matter. A small company with less money can out more soul in the speakers etc.

Even so Dali is very respect, poplar amongst audiophiles/music lovers.
 

Flobs

Active Member
Dali most certainly does not sound soft. Punchy, wide sound stage.

It is reason they are of the most respected speaker manufacturers on the market.

Still this does not always matter. A small company with less money can out more soul in the speakers etc.

Even so Dali is very respect, poplar amongst audiophiles/music lovers.
Dali make some good speakers and some are really fantastic for the price.
All I was saying is I wouldn't consider them as their impedance drops too low for what I would consider. Nothing more nothing less.
As I said some find them soft or perhaps smooth is the better descrption? Doesn't matter it's just some and some love this style anyway.

For the OP my point was getting a better quality speaker by going used/ex-demo considering his rather small room (and someone chipped in with the Menuet which is in the price range looked at new not used, if you can not find them used move on!) where from my experience quality really counts. so a used Rubicon 2 for example imo is a better option than an Menuet SE new. Then again there's more options than that. I love my Davis however I wouldn't push the Courbet 3 (the Courbet 4 yes but not for this OP as they are Floorstanders and I don't believe that's the way he should be going from what he's said) not that it isn't a good speaker but it's not got that bang for the buck you look for at the level.
 

Flobs

Active Member
@Flobs which Davis Acoustics speakers do you have and what size room are they in?
I have the Nikita 3.0's in a 3.4 by 7 meter room with a height of 2.5m. I knew Davis as I have a pair of DK 170's but the Nikita were a revelation, just so forgiving over placement (accomodating?) in a very difficult room. The experience caused me to think quite differently about speakers and particularly standmounts. (I came to the conclusion that the construction of the cabinets is extremely important and of cause Dali and Q acoustics for example put a lot of effort into that aspect (not always the case for Davis)).
I had the chance to buy some used Karla's but realised they would be sitting on my knees. The ex-dealer who sold me the Nikita's also had some unboxed Courbet N°4's (very good for the price but I was looking for something 'better' keeping my eye on them for my daughter (who would love them)). Then the MV One Master had an option of a pair of returned and loved the concept but the height of the driver was awkward. These 4 are what I'd describe as the very best from Davis and more than worth an audition (If they fall into your price btacket).
 

password1

Distinguished Member
I have the Nikita 3.0's in a 3.4 by 7 meter room with a height of 2.5m. I knew Davis as I have a pair of DK 170's but the Nikita were a revelation, just so forgiving over placement (accomodating?) in a very difficult room. The experience caused me to think quite differently about speakers and particularly standmounts. (I came to the conclusion that the construction of the cabinets is extremely important and of cause Dali and Q acoustics for example put a lot of effort into that aspect (not always the case for Davis)).
I had the chance to buy some used Karla's but realised they would be sitting on my knees. The ex-dealer who sold me the Nikita's also had some unboxed Courbet N°4's (very good for the price but I was looking for something 'better' keeping my eye on them for my daughter (who would love them)). Then the MV One Master had an option of a pair of returned and loved the concept but the height of the driver was awkward. These 4 are what I'd describe as the very best from Davis and more than worth an audition (If they fall into your price btacket).
Did you say speakers dropping down to 4 ohms isn't for you...

Those Nikita 3.0s, according to the manufacturer are rated 4...8 ohms. They drop down to 4 ohms although its not clear how high their impedance goes to...an impedance curve would be useful to see.

IMG_20220623_120802.jpg
 

Flobs

Active Member
Those Nikita 3.0s, according to the manufacturer are rated 4...8 ohms. They drop down to 4 ohms although its not clear how high their impedance goes to...an impedance curve would be useful to see.
It's amazing how little info manufacturers give out, I can not even find an impedance curve for the tweeter of my speakers however they are rated as 8 Ohms.
Davis are pretty conservative and vague about their measurements/specifications and always put 4 to 8 ohms on their speakers. The drivers themselves don't drop below 8 Ohms, you can look them up as well (Davis just wouldn't claim 8 Ohm for the drivers if they went under that as far as I'm concerned).
I don't know the effect of the filters used (which on the Nikita's are excellent) but there is no way the speakers I have drop below 6 Ohms or they would put a warning in the documention. (as they do with the Courbet N°4's which drop to perhaps 5 Ohms).
I would love more info from manufacturers. It's not possible they haven't recorded and documented this stuff!
One things for sure out of all my speakers my amp runs coolest with my Nikita's.
Personally I would love to see the results from someones measures, Davis originally claimed sensitivity as 90.5 which they later revised to 91 after a good number of reviewers measured them, like the frequency response that when measured independantly the figures always correspond to +- 1.5 dB's.
That's why it's worth doing your homework and knowing the manufacturer.
Of course with standmounts you expect smaller mid bass drivers which tend to be more prone to drop to 6 Ohms.

Tell me about Dali's! ;)
 
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password1

Distinguished Member
Yeah manufacturer's specs should be taken as a rough guide only. I bet if each manufacturer tested each others speakers, then the specs won't all be the same. Unfortunately its somewhat unregulated, no robust rules for how specs should be rated..Some use +/- 6db, some use +/-3 db, some dont say, some use 0.01% THD or different THD at a certain frequency to measure max power rating. Different size chambers or rooms and testing equipment. Different amps, lots of factors affect the measured specs.
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
... as 4 Ohms and less isn't for me. I prefer more precision.
My ML Spires have a minimal impedance of 0.8 Ohms, and I prefer their precision to sacrificing it for some arbitrarily higher impedance. Low impedance is an intrinsic feature of the purely capacitive load of the electrostatic design, well known for its ability to approach the maximum precision theoretically possible. The limit is determined by the weight of the air to be moved. Admittedly ML's Masterpiece series ESLs do cost significantly more than your Nikitas, so comparisons are a little unfair.

Of course, having power amplification capable of handling 0.8 Ohms does become a consideration, and this has its consequences on the budget. But for those considering buying ESL speakers, paying for adequate amplification is an expectation.
 
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bradzin

Standard Member
Quick update from my original post.

Have done a bit of a compromise for now and got a Node 2i streamer to go into the line inputs on the Arcam Solo Music.
This has given me a good comprehensive streaming experience and i'm liking the BluOS app.
Also it sounds really impressive.
I am quite surprised at the difference/improvement from streaming using the Arcam's own network input (for streaming from a NAS) and a Chromecast (that I was using for spotify).
The Node sounds great, its a bit brighter sounding, and I'm picking up a bit more detail on tracks and individual instruments are clearly defined and easy to follow. It is just as good as CD on the Arcam and makes spotify worth listening to.
As such I feel like I've got a good improvement, both in sound quality and convenience with minimal outlay. And its satisified the 'itch' for something new!

I will maybe look at upgrading speakers at some time in the near future, but as people have pointed out here, will make a point of getting an audition of them before purchasing as it seems different brands and sound quite distinct, and what you like will come down to personal preference.

Waiting to hear if anyone has any experience of the Concept 30's as yet, and how they compare to the 20's.

Thanks for all the advice so far.
 

hifinutt

Active Member
1] B&w are superb speakers . they can be very smooth and natural sounding . I have had many pairs . currently have 2 pairs of 607s2 which are just delightful . i was very impressed when i heard them . however i did demo a pair of 606 s2 and felt they were not as smooth as amphion.

2] the dynaudio special forty are well worth trying but they need power as some have mentioned

Those who went to cranage show a few days ago would have seen alchris audio speakers that are very good vfm and worth a look . a quarter of the price of dynaudio . the ar8 cost about 1100 pounds .
 

password1

Distinguished Member
yes there was a superb pair for 750 or less recently. nearly bought them but as had just go the amphion argon one i didnt
Where did you find a pair of Menuet SE for £750.. that's a big saving from £1300. Were they new from an authorized Dali dealer.
 

password1

Distinguished Member
For £750, that would be Mission ZX2 money. Why does no one ever shortlist the Mission ZX range on AVF?
 

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