New speakers again B&W 607 anniversary edition ?

gasolin

Member
Heres the think, i like the amp, it has enough power for low sensitive speaker and i bought the amp with a montly payment plan, BUT theres not extra, divide the price into 10 or 20 rates, no extras, no payment fee what so ever.

The yamaha cd-s300 i bought cash, i need something silent when the cd is spinning, i have had cheap used denon players for a few years who either didn't always wanted to play the cd or the drive bay or what ever it's called where going in and out trying to change cd,just play a new cd wasn't easy, why buy an expensive cplayer when i used the cdplayer with an external dac, not now, i haven't had the urge to try my cdplayer with my topping e30 dac to hear what sounds best.


Back to the amp,the think is with the rotel amp besides having enough power (almost 200 peak power in 4 ohm) is that it's really was a pleasantly suprised because as already noticing in reviews, the amp doesn't change it's sound signature when i turn the volume up, it maintains it balance, even at 80 out of 100 on the amp, what sometimes can happen is that it's the speakers that change at high levels or nearfield i just have to go 1-2 meter back when playing loud to get more distance to the speakers and as long as the sound is clean (no distortion) the balance improves, the amp sounds like it maintains the same sound quality even close to max power and i like that, sound quality is good and it can handle alot of different speakers without any problems.

I have had speakers with a more neutral top like wharfedale diamond 220 and later 225 (both didn't costs much considering theer size,weight), i wanted to hear how the difference in the bass was, according to reviews the 220 has a much higher senitivity and both sound a little to restrained in the highs where the 225 are better but both are to borring sounding and lacking bass, 225 being better but still not good. The 220 i fele sounds strange in the midrange

I agree about the 220 REVIEW: Wharfedale Diamond 220 speakers (avoid this product!)

Speakers i had with good bass is yamaha hs7 and 8 but they are big and active speakers and to soem extend the definitive technology d7, they just have have a little low limit,power handling (still okay). Highs i can't think of any i had that had perfect high but i have had speakers with a non fatiguning highs like the wharfedale diamond 220,225 and definitive technology demand d7

The think with front ported speakers, is that i don't like when i play bass heavy music loud (i never play so loud i notice any distortion), i just get alot of air turbulence from the front port, the hair dryer effect and that is super annoying when im playing some bass heay loud music nearfiled
 

gasolin

Member
There wasn't any used wharfedale diamond 225 for sale in my country

Is there a tendency for manufacturers to make bright speakers, Dali,B&W, wharfedale diamond 11.2,tannoy revolution ,klipsch.

In the B&W audiosciencereview some wrote that speakers shouldn't compensate for some people not being able to hear the highs as good, not being a hearing aid but to reproduce the sound so no frequency is to loud (compensate for hearing loss) so people can focus more on the music
 

gasolin

Member
Any other suggestions than wharfedale diamond (225 i would go for until i can go out and listen to speakers like dali,q acoustics,fyne,elac, klipsch,kef and what ever they have)
 

gasolin

Member
again no sub
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
@gasolin, your post are really hard to follow... First you say the Rotel is not powerful enough, then it is powerful enough. Regarding the CD player you owned before it probably had issues with the pickup tray, and the transport in the player it self. I really think you need to raise the budget to around the same price class as the Spendor speakers I mentioned. It is really hard to be happy around the 200 euro mark. I know we all have different ears. So you may not like the sound I like and vice versa. I don’t mean to offend you, just some constructive critic.
 

gasolin

Member
Did i mention my amp wasn't power full enough ?
 

gasolin

Member
I metioned 200 for temporary speakers since i have to return my currnet speakers, i need time to search for good speakers (listen after the country has been more normal, more have gotten vaccinated) speakers i can afford, speakers that are better than B&W 607 for my needs, (a litte better balance between the highs and lows + highter sensitivity asr say 83db) in that periode i need speakers, since i never use headphone with my pc, only when im using the bus og train for half an hour or longer i use headphones.
 

Onlythesound

Active Member
@gasolin I thought you said your amp was powerful enough. Concept 20 have a surprising amount of bass. They also thrive when you improve amplifier. Personally, I think they would love a Musical Fidelity M2si.
 

gasolin

Member
My amp has enough power in 4 ohm, close to 200 watt peak, even for 83 db speakers in 8 ohm they can do a good job for loud music.

The amp powers regardless of impedans my 607 beyond there limit or to there limit, i have to play pretty loud to reach there limit

I have to send my speakers back this week so i need to find (used) or ordre a pair, mabye i get surpised of the sound fro dali spaktor 1 because you don't expect much, more form expensive speakers than low budget speakers like the spektor 1

Cons and pros

low sensitivity but not much compared to the 607 ae, not to much bass (flat frequency responce ?), highs ?

good reviews,small foot print, easy to drive since the ofte are used with low budget amps,all in one systems they are made to sound good with low powered amsp
 
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gasolin

Member
Are the spektor 1 totally crap ?

The price is really good where most speakers in the same class cost €250 or more, dali speaktor 1 cost 188 euros for a pair with shipping (q acoustics 3010i + 50% over the spektor 1)

 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
I don’t think it’s a vise idea. If you’re not happy with the sound then you have to sell then on the used market. Money down the drain. I would just use the phone to stream music to the tv as an example. Then try out some other speakers later. But who knows maybe the Spector we’ll suit you.
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
If I’m not mistaken the Rotel A11 is only 50 watts in 8 ohm, no mention what i has in 4 ohm. But it has 140 in damping factor. But I can understand you like the Rotel. I see the Rotel has tone controls. I use tone controls on my amplifier sometimes. Where exactly have you read the A11 has 200 watts? Even if it has that means nothing in the long run if the power supply is not up to scratch. That may just be some of the reasons the sound is not to your liking. But Rotel has always been very conservative when it comes to watt specifications. Still don’t underestimate a new amplifier. The Rega amplifier our host is using may suit you. Can probably get it half the price used. Good luck👍
 
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Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
After reading this thread I have to agree with Helix about the OP possibly going round in circles , I have been exactly where he is, I have been on this same journey by buying speakers then selling them at a loss, then borrowing speakers and returning them etc.. I just couldn't find the right balance of sound (too harsh, too bass light, no mids etc etc) However I would agree with everything he has noted about the speakers he has tried so far so I suspect his hearing maybe similar to my own. I thought exactly the same about the Dynaudio Emits, to me they sounded boxy and the treble edgy and fatiguing.
Aggressive sibilant over bearing treble is an absolute NO NO for me, same story with most of the cheaper Dali's I tried, so I decided what the hell and splashed out big bucks on some Dali Rubycon 2's thinking that being pretty expensive (for a small stand mount) they would be better but NO they were the same (unbearable actually) so I sent them back immediately.
The newer budget Bowers speakers have great bass and can sound a little lively on the treble but are still great for the money especially the 606 with the right amp.
Elac speakers are wonderfully balanced and have a big sound stage so I would not write them off just yet. Another speaker I think gasolin may like is the Focal Aria 906 and the cheaper 806, they both have a nice smooth sound with lovely airy mids, and also the quad s2 which is also a very balanced enjoyable little speaker, sometimes it's just about finding a speaker that's pleasant and musical (size shouldnt matter too much)
I appreciate he loves his Rotel and is reluctant to part with it but sometimes you have to move on if you can't find the right sound you're looking for, or the right synergy with the speakers. Personally speaking the Rotel amps I've heard in the past did tend to sound a little lean and anemic but I have not heard his particular model.
I hung on to my Cambridge cx60 amplifier all through my speaker changing fiasco because I was convinced it was the speakers fault (or maybe my hearing) and not the amp, eventually, after owning and selling 5 pairs of speakers (some very good) and ending up with "Monitor Audio silver 200's I was still not happy" (read my thread of the same name)
I decided to finally change the Cambridge for something else to see if I could rid myself of the dreaded edgy treble issue that seems to have plagued me through 4 years and 5 sets of speakers.
After reading great reviews on the Denon PMA1600ne amp with DAC I ordered it without a demo (something I never usually do) and guess what? it sorted out everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, the lumpy bass and edgy treble of the cambridge was gone, the sound stage was now wide and clear, my Monitor Audio's sounded glorious with no hint of edginess, the sound was now sweet and creamy and it caressed my ears instead of giving me ear ache and fatigue, this amp is not for everyone nor is it perfect but the synergy with the Monitor audio's is perfect and that counts for a lot.
I would say this to gasolin, if you find yourself going through loads of speakers (it's probably NOT the speakers) You might eventually find a pair that work really well with your Rotel but it will not be an easy or inexpensive journey. The only way to really sort this out is to take your amp to a decent dealer who has a good selection of speakers to try out and find something that works with it within a reasonable budget (I would start with the Focals) If you can't then do what I eventually did and change the amp (but only AFTER you find a speaker you can live with)
If you really need some cheapo speakers until the dealers open up again grab some SH wharfedale 220's for less than £100 but I would just wait.
Sorry for this post going on a bit, but I just wanted to save gasolin a lot of time and agro.
The Silver 200, can you use SoundCare spikes on them, or do you have to use the supplied Monitor Audio spikes, rubber feet’s? Even though I’m fond of my Dali Oberon 5 speakers, I can’t help thinking the Silver 200 are fuller in the midrange.
 

Kapkirk

Active Member
Are the spektor 1 totally crap ?

The price is really good where most speakers in the same class cost €250 or more, dali speaktor 1 cost 188 euros for a pair with shipping (q acoustics 3010i + 50% over the spektor 1)


Hi again Gasolin. Yes the Spektors are cheap atm but IF as you say you are sensitive to treble (especially at near field) I really don't think you would like them, nearly all the models in Dali's range that I've heard have an unnatural peak in treble response and although I've not heard the Spectors in person I would expect much of the same, especially if the amplifier is mismatched.
.
You are correct in your observations about many new speaker designs being bright and I cannot understand why this seems to be the norm these days with the more budget designs, maybe the manufactures just want to impress on first audition to stand out, it's only when you get them home and use them for a few weeks you start to realize it becomes fatiguing.
I've had quite a few front ported designs which have been excellent and have not experienced the ports blowing hard although I don't listen at very high sound pressure levels. My room acoustics do seem to like rear ported speakers though and that's why I use rear ported designs, but have nothing against front ported speakers.
It is going to be a tall order to get powerful bass and high efficiency from a small speaker so you may have to go to a larger speaker to achieve the sound you want. A smallish speaker with good output and rear port is the Q acoustics 3020i, I have heard it and it is not a bad sounding speaker but it wasn't for me, it somehow didn't sound right and I couldn't put my finger on it.
A few years ago I auditioned some Dynaudio 2/6's at home and actually quite liked them, they were fast punchy little things and pretty smooth (not as smooth as the focal Arias though) but disappointed me when it came to sound staging, they felt a little closed in like the Q acoustics I heard.
If you can go up in size a bit and can dismiss the front porting issue then you should definitely try and listen to the Focal Aria 906, it sounds like no other speaker i've heard for the money, it's completely smooth but detailed in the treble and produces a big sound, the mids are slightly recessed but are still wonderfully natural, the bass is pretty decent too (I really wish I had kept them) I've seen them on eBay for around 350-500 (I regrettably sold mine for £550 and they were like new) or you can get ex demo models (like new) for not much more. If these do not suit your ears nothing will (if your hearing is like mine) trust me.
There are plenty of high quality videos on youtube demonstrating various speakers (including the Focals) and with good headphones you can definitely get an idea of their sound signature, nearly every speaker I've heard on there sounded EXACTLY as they did when I listened to them in a live demo or at home, so the people who say you can't tell are just plain wrong.

The amplifier power should NEVER be a priority when considering an amp, I've had 40w per channel amps in the past that sound amazing and have literally shaken my wine glasses out of the cupboard and had the neighbours knocking (Take the Naim Uniti Atom for example)

Lastly on your Yamaha cd player, my elder brother actually has a Yamaha CD 300 and although fairly cheap is still a very good cd player, it is not bright at all and is actually very balanced and tight sounding across the frequency range, however it is not the most dynamic sounding player especially compared with my aging Sony CDP- XB920-QS which completely blows your socks off with its dynamics and bass power - and why I will never sell it, so if you are only using the cd300 as your main source with your rotel it could also be affecting the overall sound.

Some speaker brands I've heard which I liked and seemed to suit my ears are:
Focal Aria, KEF most of the range in the last 5 years, Spendor A series, PMC 25, Sonus Faber, Dynaudio Evoke, Wharfedale diamond series, Elac, Harbeth ps3er, Magnepan, ATC SCM.
 

Kapkirk

Active Member
The Silver 200, can you use SoundCare spikes on them, or do you have to use the supplied Monitor Audio spikes, rubber feet’s? Even though I’m fond of my Dali Oberon 5 speakers, I can’t help thinking the Silver 200 are fuller in the midrange.
I don't know if they would fit mate, they are expensive for what they are and the Monitor Audio feet are excellent anyway, they work great on thick carpets or solid floors, I use mine on marble slabs which definitely cleans the bass up and helps with imaging.
The 200's can sound a bit shouty in the upper mids if not paired with the right amp and source and I'm not sure if you would prefer them over your Dali Oberons, in fact the Oberons are the ONLY Dali speaker I have never heard in person so it's hard to compare them with the silver 200's. If you like the Oberons you would probably like the Opticon 6, I had them on demo at home last year and quite liked them but they just overpowered my room, bass was a bit overbearing for me, but they did sound quite sweet at the top compared with other Dali's I've heard. If you were thinking of trying some Monitor Audio's I would go with the silver 300's and pair with smooth sounding amps like Hegel, Arcam, Yamaha, or (Japanese built Denon's like the PMA1600/PMA2500) The silver 300's have more power in the bottom and mids. I am actually upgrading to Dynaudio evokes soon so my 200's will be up for sale.
 

Kapkirk

Active Member
I just realized I didn't really answer your question Helix about the 200 's being fuller in the mids, I wouldn't consider them full, if anything they can a little bit light in the mids, to really get the mids going I think you'd need to pair them with something like a NAIM NAIT or Super Nait or possibly one of the Rega amps or even a Roksan. I also like the Arcam amps, very natural sound and smooth so well done for finding one that suited your Dali's. In fact I nearly bought an SA 20 last year after hearing a short demo.
 

Kapkirk

Active Member
Gasolin did you go straight to the 607's and not hear the 606 and if so why?
 

Kapkirk

Active Member
I just realized I didn't really answer your question Helix about the 200 's being fuller in the mids, I wouldn't consider them full, if anything they can a little bit light in the mids, to really get the mids going I think you'd need to pair them with something like a NAIM NAIT or Super Nait or possibly one of the Rega amps or even a Roksan. I also like the Arcam amps, very natural sound and smooth so well done for finding one that suited your Dali's. In fact I nearly bought an SA 20 last year after hearing a short demo.
Nice little YT demo of the Evoke 30's with MA 200 G and Spedor A 7
 

Kapkirk

Active Member
I don't know if they would fit mate, they are expensive for what they are and the Monitor Audio feet are excellent anyway, they work great on thick carpets or solid floors, I use mine on marble slabs which definitely cleans the bass up and helps with imaging.
The 200's can sound a bit shouty in the upper mids if not paired with the right amp and source and I'm not sure if you would prefer them over your Dali Oberons, in fact the Oberons are the ONLY Dali speaker I have never heard in person so it's hard to compare them with the silver 200's. If you like the Oberons you would probably like the Opticon 6, I had them on demo at home last year and quite liked them but they just overpowered my room, bass was a bit overbearing for me, but they did sound quite sweet at the top compared with other Dali's I've heard. If you were thinking of trying some Monitor Audio's I would go with the silver 300's and pair with smooth sounding amps like Hegel, Arcam, Yamaha, or (Japanese built Denon's like the PMA1600/PMA2500) The silver 300's have more power in the bottom and mids. I am actually upgrading to Dynaudio evokes soon so my 200's will be up for sale.
EVOKE 30 HERE
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
@Kapkirk, is correct, going from stand mounted speakers to floor standing speakers we’ll in most cases give you fuller sound. But from understanding you don’t have space for floor standing speakers. Correct? Then perhaps a subwoofer is the only way to fill in the bass, midrange. But if you listen in near field (1,5 meters), then as mentioned I suggest you look at warmer sounding speakers. ATC, Spendor, Graham Audio, Harbeth. All of them are pretty expensive new, particularly Harbeth. But they can be found used half the price. And who knows some people are desperate to sell stuff under half the price. Good luck,
 

Helix Hifi

Well-known Member
@gasolin, how’s the hunt going for new speakers. You haven’t considered Dali Oberon 3? Dali can sound a bit bright on some models. The old Ikon range. But the Oberon range sound quite balanced.
 

Kapkirk

Active Member
@Kapkirk, is correct, going from stand mounted speakers to floor standing speakers we’ll in most cases give you fuller sound. But from understanding you don’t have space for floor standing speakers. Correct? Then perhaps a subwoofer is the only way to fill in the bass, midrange. But if you listen in near field (1,5 meters), then as mentioned I suggest you look at warmer sounding speakers. ATC, Spendor, Graham Audio, Harbeth. All of them are pretty expensive new, particularly Harbeth. But they can be found used half the price. And who knows some people are desperate to sell stuff under half the price. Good luck,

Think you misunderstood my post Helix, I wasn't suggesting gasoline move up to floorstanders as I don't think he has the space, but I did suggest he may have to go with a physically bigger speaker and think he doesn't want to spend more than £600 from what I gather which is why I suggested SH Focal Aria 906, they are probably the nicest sounding speaker I've ever heard for under £1000.
 

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