new Sony VPL-VW270E replacing ageing Epson TW-3500 - how improved will it be ?

shahedz

Distinguished Member
I have had my Epson TW-3500 for 12 years and have decided to upgrade now to the Sony VPL-VW270E. I was going to go for for the Epson TW-9300 however , the Sony is native 4k and considering how long I keep the projector for I thought it would be better to spend more now the upgrade again later.

The Sony is 1500 lumens the Epson is 1800.

Does any one know the contrast ratio of the Sony?

I haven't seen a 4k projector in the flesh and with the lockdown it's not possible to demo. What I wanted to know is how much of an improvement will the Sony be on the Epson. Significant?

I sit 3.2m from the screen. My room is far , far , far from a Bat Cave. If anything the opposite- you'll see in my signature. It's not a purpose built cinema.

So overall the main questions I had

1) 1080p - will there be any noticeable improvement -
2) 4k - how much of an improvement will it be over the current set up I have now.


My main source will be my Sky Q and Apple TV.

thanks all!
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
you will see a decent step up in 1080p and 4k... no question

there are several reasons though i would suggest the epson 9400 over the sony 270Es

the 270ES

cant achieve even 30FL/100nits for a 100" screen without needing to have it on high lamp ! not issue on the epson
cant achieve even 80% of p3 as required to meet WCG spec for 4k uhd. vs 100% epson achieves
has no iris to speak off, not even a manual one let alone dyanmic. vs both manual and dynamic on epson
no lens memory to speak off... unlike the epson
has plastic element in lens assembly vs all glass of the epson
missed out on the x1 for projector chip both the 590ES and 790Es gained this last year

basically the 270es has been forgotten by sony for some reason...

all that said contrast wise 270es will be better than the epson. it is native 4k so will eek out some more detail. it has a less digital look to the picture vs epson. but also would want to wind back the reality creation that can over cook the image. in a small screen and not too long a throw setup it will achieve decent luminance ... and if planning to use with something with dynamic time mapping then 4k HDR not so much an issue. additionally if going in a fully treated room, ie black hole light sucking contrast wise it will achieve some decent results :)
 

danielsan1985uk

Standard Member
I'd agree with Alebonau. The Sony has support for HDR10 and HLG and is native 4k. Has good contrast and will show a decent image quality compared to your older pj.

But it can't even do HDR well unless on high lamp mode and as ambient light control matters so much, and you say it's not a bat cave. But far from it I'm guessing bright coloured walls?

For those reasons I'd recommend the epson as it's so much cheaper and has lens memory.
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
The 270ES is a fantastic machine but its capabilities are not commensurate with its current price tag.
It really only has native 4K and high native contrast going for it.
Its native contrast is somewhere in the region of 7000:1 (SDR) to 15000:1 (HDR). So, much higher than the Epson.
But the Epson has many more features and is brighter.
In your case I would also suggest the Epson.
If you can go a little higher price wise, go for the TotL 9400 instead. It is a stonking machine from all the images I have seen.
The 'budget' Sony is looking more and more like it is super over priced these days.
Sony really need to swallow their pride and lower its price to around £2500. I think they wouldn't be able to shift enough of them at that price.
 

shahedz

Distinguished Member
Really appreciate the replies . It’s thrown a cat amongst the pigeons as I was hell bent on the Sony but now have serious doubts. I’m able to get the Sony for £4000 as well which is what swayed me to it .

In layman’s terms the dynamic iris - what’s the cons of not having this?

Concerned by high lamp mode as the projector sits directly above me.
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
Really appreciate the replies . It’s thrown a cat amongst the pigeons as I was hell bent on the Sony but now have serious doubts. I’m able to get the Sony for £4000 as well which is what swayed me to it .

In layman’s terms the dynamic iris - what’s the cons of not having this?

Concerned by high lamp mode as the projector sits directly above me.
The lack of an iris mens there is no way to modulate the light source for darker scenes and thus you have to rely on the native contrast alone, which is very good.
As for high lamp mode, the fan will get louder at high lamp but they are very stable in the whooshing sound in my experience. Tolerance to sound level is a very personal thing.
 

shahedz

Distinguished Member
The lack of an iris mens there is no way to modulate the light source for darker scenes and thus you have to rely on the native contrast alone, which is very good.
As for high lamp mode, the fan will get louder at high lamp but they are very stable in the whooshing sound in my experience. Tolerance to sound level is a very personal thing.

Thank you that's cleared it up perfectly. Either way can't wait to get the new one!
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
The 270ES is a fantastic machine but its capabilities are not commensurate with its current price tag.
It really only has native 4K and high native contrast going for it.
Its native contrast is somewhere in the region of 7000:1 (SDR) to 15000:1 (HDR). So, much higher than the Epson.
But the Epson has many more features and is brighter.
In your case I would also suggest the Epson.
If you can go a little higher price wise, go for the TotL 9400 instead. It is a stonking machine from all the images I have seen.
The 'budget' Sony is looking more and more like it is super over priced these days.
Sony really need to swallow their pride and lower its price to around £2500. I think they wouldn't be able to shift enough of them at that price.

sony really should have updated it last year for a 290ES.... and filled the missing blanks for what should have at the price point... over here there jvc n5 is much cheaper and so pretty makes the 270es a touch choice...

Really appreciate the replies . It’s thrown a cat amongst the pigeons as I was hell bent on the Sony but now have serious doubts. I’m able to get the Sony for £4000 as well which is what swayed me to it .

In layman’s terms the dynamic iris - what’s the cons of not having this?

Concerned by high lamp mode as the projector sits directly above me.
there are two factors with iris... it hasn't got a manual one or dynamic... meaning you cant set luminance for SDR blu-ray... which calibrators will at the most basic setting set for 14FL nominal... you can use higher luminance but will kill contrast.

the dynamic iris takes contrast further.... where the models up in 590es and 790es now with x1 for projector chip utilise to advantage for dynamic contrast. the 270es with no iris at all cant utilise this

the other thing I forgot that the 270es doesnt have is a slider like the epson does for HDR... which is useful with HDR sources :)
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
The other thing I forgot that the 270es doesnt have is a slider like the epson does for HDR... which is useful with HDR sources :)
Actually, it does have an 'HDR Contrast' slider for tweaking the HDR curve just like the higher models. ;)
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
Actually, it does have an 'HDR Contrast' slider for tweaking the HDR curve just like the higher models. ;)
good to know has the slider, The 270es doesnt have an iris though ? or the x1 for projector chip that sony claim is needed for contrast enhancer ? ...and so not working in conjunction with the iris ? as it does in the 790es / 590es ? what does it do exactly then in the 270es ? just bump contrast or brightness up / down ? play with gamma ?
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
good to know has the slider, The 270es doesnt have an iris though ? or the x1 for projector chip that sony claim is needed for contrast enhancer ? ...and so not working in conjunction with the iris ? as it does in the 790es / 590es ? what does it do exactly then in the 270es ? just bump contrast or brightness up / down ? play with gamma ?
Correct in that it has no iris. It does have a Contrast enhancer function too. Page 23 of the manual.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
Correct in that it has no iris. It does have a Contrast enhancer function too. Page 23 of the manual.
thats why we had 570/760es owners crying fowl saying the new x1 chip and addition of dynamic contrast was a farce on the 590es/790es as old models had it :D but clearly without an iris or the new x1 for projector chip, theres only so far 270es can go. the german review that compared 270es vs jvc n5 showed that clearly :) the n5 does have dynamic tone mapping though :)
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
thats why we had 570/760es owners crying fowl saying the new x1 chip and addition of dynamic contrast was a farce on the 590es/790es as old models had it :D but clearly without an iris or the new x1 for projector chip, theres only so far 270es can go. the german review that compared 270es vs jvc n5 showed that clearly :) the n5 does have dynamic tone mapping though :)
The 270 does have the X1 but it doesn't have an iris.
That, the artificially curtailed motion flow options and the fact it has no hardware for lens memory are the only differences.
Those differences however, are enough for a large difference in ultimate performance compared to the 570/590.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
The 270 does have the X1 but it doesn't have an iris.
will have to explain that to sony then :D as they much promoted the "new X1 for projector" as the new chip and hence necessary hardware and justification for the new models in the 590es and 790Es the 270ES does not have the X1 for projector chip...as this was a 2020 thing that the 270ES missed hence its not a 290Es :)

That, the artificially curtailed motion flow options and the fact it has no hardware for lens memory are the only differences.
it not only doesnt have manual or dynamic iris, it also has a weak lamp, and then there is lack of colour space that doesnt even cover 80% as required by 4k ups spec :)

Those differences however, are enough for a large difference in ultimate performance compared to the 570/590.
they have just forgotten to update the 270ES or 2020 thats all :)
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
will have to explain that to sony then :D as they much promoted the "new X1 for projector" as the new chip and hence necessary hardware and justification for the new models in the 590es and 790Es the 270ES does not have the X1 for projector chip...as this was a 2020 thing that the 270ES missed hence its not a 290Es :)


it not only doesnt have manual or dynamic iris, it also has a weak lamp, and then there is lack of colour space that doesnt even cover 80% as required by 4k ups spec :)


they have just forgotten to update the 270ES or 2020 thats all :)
They already know. ;) Don't let marketing distract you. Marketing is another name for sleight of hand/misdirection.
The 270 is supposed to have the same colour specs as the others so if it didn't reach them, it is either inter unit variance or that the bulb doesn't go bright enough to allow the volume.
It is the 'budget' option of the range remember!
All they need to do is halve the price. It still uses current tech.
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
The Sony 270 is a significantly better projector than anything Epson ever made, however it has some shortcomings, like no iris, so therefore unable to calibrate/ maintain a specifik lightoutput, suffers from SONYs purple banding issue, and fairly low bit resolution capability, HDR is whatever it is a mood point and you can make of it whatever you want, just like on any other projector with static tonemapping.
So for the price of the 270 you would be significantly better off with something like a JVC X5900 or even better X7900, better light output, and much higher contrast, lens memory, proper calibration capabilities and so on.

4K is not worth much if you cant properly resolve 8 bit material, and have backdoor processing that cant be deactivated, then there is the hole doubt about how long it takes the SONY panels to degrade to no contrast left.

Epson give you a 50% pixel fill factor, and the lowest contrast, they have very competitive pricings, but absolutely not worth more than they cost, nothings perfect, preferable go check out different models, nobody but you can tell you what tickles you.
Pixel fill.png
 
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DB9S

Well-known Member
Really appreciate the replies . It’s thrown a cat amongst the pigeons as I was hell bent on the Sony but now have serious doubts. I’m able to get the Sony for £4000 as well which is what swayed me to it .

In layman’s terms the dynamic iris - what’s the cons of not having this?

Concerned by high lamp mode as the projector sits directly above me.
High lamp mode is certainly louder, but I wouldn't say it is intrusive especially once a movie is on.
A dynamic iris alters the aperture on the fly to control how much light reaches the screen. It is only used on darker scenes and to good effect.
If you could get the Sony for 3000-3500 it would be a really good buy.
 

shahedz

Distinguished Member
I can get it for £4000, but the Epson I can get a retail. Even factoring in the above I'm leaning towards the Sony at the moment but may be dictated by my room. I have a real awkward room and the Epson is more flexible with moving the image.
 

DB9S

Well-known Member
I can get it for £4000, but the Epson I can get a retail. Even factoring in the above I'm leaning towards the Sony at the moment but may be dictated by my room. I have a real awkward room and the Epson is more flexible with moving the image.
Have fun making the choice.
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
I’m with everyone else in saying the Epson 9400 would be the better option regardless that it’s not a native 4K like the Sony. I did a direct comparison with the Sony 360es against my 9400, present was the owner of the Sony and two of my kids, on my 100” screen (at the time) sitting 9ft away none of us could see the improved resolution of native 4K, we all need to move close to only 6.5-7ft away to start and see the difference and in fact we all preferred the Epson’s handling of 1080p over the Sony.

The Sony has a claimed superior native contrast over the Epson and yet side by side we didn’t see much if any difference, possibly different content might have shown it more but on the stuff we watched both looked equal. One thing that isn’t equal is the light output the Epson has over the Sony, this was significant.

When you factor in the many extra functions the Epson has over the Sony it’s a no brainer.

P.S. My room IS a bat cave.
 
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DB9S

Well-known Member
sony really should have updated it last year for a 290ES.... and filled the missing blanks for what should have at the price point... over here there jvc n5 is much cheaper and so pretty makes the 270es a touch choice...
Actually, what I think Sony should do is completely can the 2xx series and just reduce the price of the 5xx series to 5k or thereabouts.
Then their range will just be a lamp based unit with all the trimmings, followed by the 'entry' compact laser model (currently 790), followed by the premium compact laser model (currently 870). Above those is the VW5000 and GTZ380.
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
For the sake of balance, I think your diagram needs to have LCOS (DiLA and SXRD) on the right hand side as they are basically the same tech and have similar (if not identical) very high fill rates.
Think most people know that the main difference between the sony and JVC panels are contrast related, JVC might have a bit higher pixel fill on the panels from what i seen, its also possible its just better lenses on the SONY projectors..

Point is that there is a huge difference from LCD based projectors to the rest.
 

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