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New SONY HX910 - first impressions

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by EN, May 6, 2005.

  1. EN

    EN
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    I changed 900 with a new 910 model.

    What is new?
    1. It has DIVIDE function.
    2. It has PLAYLIST.
    3. Smart chaptering - I recorded some program but I still can't understand where the recorder puts chapters and why.
    4. GUI is blue instead of grey. And it is better organized.
    5. Timer is not concern to me, so I haven't check number of events.
    6. The recording speed 2,5h. But no flex recording.
    7. Playback 1,5x speed with sound, but the sound is higher (not as JVC).
    8. Records DVD+R DL.

    The recording and playback quality are superb, as expected.
    I have tested myself Panasonic 500, JVC 30, Philips 720.
    My opinion is that this SONY model has most friendly GUI and menu.
    And now the editing functions are as on Panasonic or JVC.

    I am happy with he upgrade.
    The only thing I don't like is the design, previous was better.
     
  2. maddi

    maddi
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    Great to hear something from an x10 owner.
    Having an 900 I wonder if the 910 also has some major drawback regarding the A-B erase function. With the x00 models it is not possible to make a frame accurate cut. The last frame before A freezes for about half a second when played back from HDD or DVD. There is no way to avoid it.
    How does the 910 behave when erasing a sequence?


    Thanks
    Maddi
     
  3. Timur

    Timur
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    I own the 710, that is the same unit with smaller HDD(look at my threads about it to know about all the other features) and just today I discovered that last frame of A point in A-B erase freezes up for a while. Also when you dub from HDD to DVD in high speed some frame after the A point remain in the copy !!!
    Operating manual gives a notice about this problem, it suggest to avoid high speed Dub and use "Rec Mode conversion Dubbig method" "to smooth out the pauses between the scenes".
    -But I wonder if it is possible to determine how many frames slide in the copy and set A point just "that number of frames" before the ideal point...
    -I wonder if that number would be fixed or depending on speed, point of writing in the disc and so on...

    Alas I suppose the freezing problem would be still there...

    I wonder if units by other brands have the same problem...
    Any experiences about that??

    Timur
     
  4. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Most brands exhibit some pauses - Panasonic and Pioneer are the more sophesticated models that do not (the former having the edge in my own tests) - at least when you have Seemless Playback enabled.

    Unfortunately it doesn't just skip ahead/astern a few frames just to see you off ;) It needs to cut on the nearest I frame - this could be anywhere between 0 and 15 frames away depending upon the screen activity and recording mode.
     
  5. EN

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    In addition to Rasczak,
    all mentioned above models have same problem with frezing or accuracy.
    That is why I bought older JVC machine HS4, HDD with S-VHS vcr, with DV recording mode, so I have frame accuracy and no pause at all.
     
  6. Timur

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    I've just tried "Rec Mode conversion Dubbig method" and discovered that it keeps the promise: no remnants of deleted chapter/part of the title that slide in the dvd copy!
    Alas, the con is that the dubbing goes 1X fast, so if you dub a 2hours movie the process takes 2H to complete.
    For good movies or any rec I really want to keep there is no problem, I just wait.
    My only concern is about the unit (mine is 710) getting too hot when dubbing 3 or 4 hours titles...
    So far I haven't noticed any overheating, it's just a worry.
    Any experience about that ???

    Cheers,

    Timur
     
  7. EN

    EN
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    Hi, Timur.
    It is normal to dub 2h movie for 2h when you resample - usualy on lower quality.
    I am trying to record always in same more as moe to be dubbed, so no conversions. One more thing, if you resample probably you will get worse quality compared to recording directly in same rec mode as dubbed.

    I have never experiance any overheating with any device even in very hot weather 40C.
     
  8. Timur

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    EN,

    with yhe sony recorders, if you want smooth commericial cut and no freezing, it seems you are forced to use "Rec Mode conversion Dubbig method".
    I want to point out that this mode imply that, when dubbing, you choose one of the 8 rec mode but fast one: so the mode you choose could be just the same the original title (on HDD) is.
    For example if I record on hdd in SP mode, when I start dubbing procedure the unit offers FAST MODE transfer first (no conversion) but I can scroll all the options to the SP one.

    So this should be a way to dub at 1X smoothing cuts and avoidind freezing images in the dvd copy.

    Now, since you use the word "resample", my only concern would be whether the title is D/A converted and than A/D resampled !!!
    But honestly, seeing the quality of "converted material" copy, I suppose it keeps the title in the digital domain.
    Anyway I couldn't seee any quality loss in my "converted copy".

    So far I used Sony blank media (DVD-R 8x speed supported).
    I still have to try the Traxdata DVD+R DL (I've found them at 7.50 Eur = 5.12 £) and ADM DVD+R DL (I've found them at 3.00 Eur = 2.05 £). hope they are reliable...
     
  9. EN

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    When I tried to smooth freezing using conversion during dubbing, they do not go away fully, just being shorter.
    Yes, when resamling SONY (as others) keeps everything in digtal domain, but it is compressed digtal domain (very compressed), so any "correction" on the material will make it next generation digital copy. In some cases it is very obvious on particular scenes.
    But usually it is OK.
     
  10. Timur

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    EN,

    thanks a lot for your explanation !
    I wasn't suspecting that compression would imply signal degrade when converting...

    Given that, I wonder whether it's better to record on HDD in HQ mode and than dubbing-convert to HSP or SP any material that has been edited (chapter or A-B erase or other) or it's better to stay in the same record mode (ex. SP recorded - SP dub-converted). ??
     
  11. EN

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    When I want to do editing I record in HQ mode (or HQ+) and then I dub in SP or HSP. SONY works fine, but I have noticed some degradation with fast moving object on a even background.
    But I am not sure I have never tryed to record in SP mode (for example) and then dub in SP mode, not fast dubbing. May e it will not convert any material, just take out some frame, so no degradation, I will try it.
     
  12. Chris at Home

    Chris at Home
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    I have had this problem on a +RW disc but not on -RW (VR mode) or HDD. The edit point "A" error I had was between 1 and 12 frames late. Edit point "B" was found to be 1 to 11 frames early but usually, for reasons unknown to me, it would be more accurate than at the "A" end.

    The shortest edit on a +RW disc is 1 second. On the -RW and HDD there were 2 minimum edit times. Nominally it is 2 seconds (50 frames) but if the edit involves jumping over a previous edit (chapter mark has been inserted) I think you can have just 1 or 2 frames knocked out.

    The same applies to the very beginning or end of a title. For those of you who want to knock out the first frame only, do the following:

    Let it roll on the A-B edit, then pause. Press the << button to get to the 1st chapter mark, then press "enter" twice. Up comes the menu with the selected edit points, then press "enter" again. No more 1st frame.

    The user manual does not make that clear. Presumably, one has to experiment and enjoy the thrill of discovering something they didn't want you to know!
    :D
     
  13. Timur

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    Chris at Home

    thanks for the tips ! I will try them.
    You did not mention but I suppose you own a Sony unit, or am I wrong?

    when you say "

    -do you meand DVD (which type?) or HDD or both??
    -why cutting the first frame of the chapter ? are you referring to the first frame of the first chapter you want to keep that could be the faded out frame of the previous scene ??
    (I noticed that Intelligent Chaptering usually works well but can sometimes be swindled, by what I don' know, and it loses its precision)
    what happens when I fast copy a title edited the way you suggested?? (if the tip above is applicable to HDD titles)
     
  14. Cippico

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    Hey Chris at home,

    :smashin:

    Thanks for the HX900 editing tip. I often wondered how to get right to the beginning. I always seem to end up erasing more and more of the main recording whilst simply trying to erase the preceeding ad/preamble, etc. Now I know.

    Andy
     
  15. Chris at Home

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    Yep, the Sony manual doesn't tell you as much as you really need to know at times. I suppose they would be adding even more pages to an already hefty publication. BUT... finding these tricks out tends to make them stay in the head. I can also brag: "I found that out!" to all and sundry.

    <Walks away with a swagger.>
     
  16. Cippico

    Cippico
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    Ah yes, but I also found out how to divide HDD titles on it.
    Just kidding.. ;)
    As soon as the HXD910 (or whatever the Freeview one is going to be called) is released, I'm trading mine in immediately.
     
  17. AlanMrva

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    It doesn't work on my sony 910. Maybe I am doing something wrong, but when I try to press enter twice all I gat it the massage that I can't but B mark there.
    Do you have any idea how can I solve the problem of freezing where I have cut out something?
     
  18. Chris at Home

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    when you say "

    Quote:
    The same applies to the very beginning or end of a title. For those of you who want to knock out the first frame only, do the following:

    Let it roll on the A-B edit, then pause. Press the << button to get to the 1st chapter mark, then press "enter" twice. Up comes the menu with the selected edit points, then press "enter" again. No more 1st frame.



    -do you meand DVD (which type?) or HDD or both??
    -why cutting the first frame of the chapter ? are you referring to the first frame of the first chapter you want to keep that could be the faded out frame of the previous scene ??
    (I noticed that Intelligent Chaptering usually works well but can sometimes be swindled, by what I don' know, and it loses its precision)
    what happens when I fast copy a title edited the way you suggested?? (if the tip above is applicable to HDD titles)



    First frame deletion.

    If you have not edited out the exact part and you have a frame or so remaining on the HDD or a DVD-RW(VR), then the A-B editing I mentioned works provided you pass over a previous edit (a chapter mark is inserted automatically when the edit takes place.) I can't remember what happens on a DVD+RW at the moment apart from the fact that a few frames get left behind after an edit.

    High speed dubbing.

    If you fast dub from the HDD, the edit points are not only noticeable, but they change their pattern slightly. A freeze of 1 frame on the HDD becomes an unfrozen 4 or 5 frames on the DVD. The only way this could be rectified would be to create a playlist and work on it. I don't know how successful it would be because I haven't tried it yet. I do wish my wife would spend less time in front of the TV and maybe I could give it a try!
     
  19. Chris at Home

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    That is the case if the frames are not the first or last ones, or if you are not passing over a chapter mark. That message you mention means you have not fulfilled one of the conditions above. Therefore, you must therefore erase a minimum of 50 frames (2 seconds). In fact, the user manual on the HX-900 states: "Sections shorter than 5 seconds may not be erased." Note the use of the word "may" which is confusing.

    Further, watch out for the "start" point when editing. It is not the first frame. It is a point before the first frame and can't be used as an edit point. Tricky, but I don't design these things.
     
  20. AlanMrva

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    I remember somebody mentioned something abozt tricks with pressing enter twice so you can get another menu.
     
  21. AlanMrva

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    Anyway the only thing that I am completely unsatisfied with my Sony HX910 is that freezing when I use A-B erase... :thumbsdow
     
  22. BigBadFun

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    Then your machine is stuffed... mine works great. Get it replaced.
     
  23. foneman

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