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New Servo 15 and my M&K VX100 - Integration Issues

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by Stewart C, Sep 30, 2002.

  1. Stewart C

    Stewart C
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    I have had the wonderful M&K VX-100 supplying the bass for my system. I took the opportunity and some say risk in buying a Servo 15.

    The Servo 15 is awesome there's no doubt about it, but could I keep the VX-100 and play alonside the Servo 15 ? I have not been able to test this yet as I have just hooked up the Servo 15. I need to let that run in before I hook up both subs to my Denon 11SR.

    It seems to me that maybe the subwoofers are so far away from each other in dimensions are dynamics that integration may be impossible.

    I love my VX-100 and would love to keep it. If however it does not integrate well with the Servo 15, then I may try and sell it.

    Anyone got any advice about the issues I have to resolve.

    Regards
     
  2. Ian J

    Ian J
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    It probably won't be easy as THX 1138 had problems integrating a Storm 1 and Storm 3 together and mcmullanbrush with his Servo and Yamaha. Ultimately both gave up and sold one of them off.
     
  3. chips

    chips
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    Hi Stewart,

    I tried to integrate my Servo15 with a Paradigm PS1000. This was not sucessful as the PS1000 was only adding boom.

    I then tried with a Yamaha SW-90, strangely enough, this seemed to work better but after a few weeks I came to the conclusion that I was better off with just the Servo.

    I believe that we have the same speakers, M&K S-85s & SS150s. Now that I am using just the Servo, It integrates superbly with the M&Ks.

    Mind you, the VX-100 is a much better sub than the PS-1000 or SW-90 so it may be worth a try. But i wouldn't be suprised if you end up just using the Servo.
     
  4. Chip

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    Don't know how you guys can get away with two subs in your room. Mrs Chip wants to kill me for having one. :D
    Chip
     
  5. Stewart C

    Stewart C
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    "I believe that we have the same speakers, M&K S-85s & SS150s. Now that I am using just the Servo, It integrates superbly with the M&Ks."


    It looks as though we do have the same speakers and they seem to have a new lease of life with the Servo 15.

    I just had my mate in the house and we gave it a good testing. He thinks it runs a bit slow with dance music but after a while when the sub was worked hard it seemed to improve. Perhaps I have not run in properly yet, but I can't say I noticed it slow.

    Otherwise he says it is wonderful. That is praise indeed as he is very critical about bass (quality and speed)

    He has multiple subwoofers in his car and is a bass junkie and he likes his bass ultra fast.

    Have you found this with the Servo 15.

    By the way I am not a dance fan so it doesn't really matter but has anyone else experienced a slight slowness with fast bass ?

    He had test tones down to 10Hz and it coped admirably.

    Regards
     
  6. chips

    chips
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    Seems fast enough to me. Mind you I don't listen to dance music either.

    There is a scene near the begining of Monsters Inc. where they set off a little bomb thing. The integration with the fronts is just awesome, the whole explosion seems to come from the centre of the screen. Very tight, most impressive!!

    Mind you, the wife is worried that the house may fall down.
     
  7. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    The same old chestnut. Your mate doesn't know what he is talking about. There is no such thing as slow bass but he may never have experienced proper bass before. Bass without distortion.
     
  8. uncle eric

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    Here is a golden oldie from a while back explaining the myths behind slow bass/ fast bass.

     
  9. uncle eric

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    Another thing to bear in mind: live bass does not sound fast or slow; it just sounds like bass associated with whatever instrument or other source is creating it. The concept of "fast" or "slow" bass is a loudspeaker and audio-system-related thing. You could probably devise a live demonstration to show how the midrange of a string bass can affect the perceived quality of the bottom end of its range (and for all I know, the best musicians may use this to further extend their emotional reach in their playing). But in day-to-day listening situations when you hear live music, I doubt you’ve ever thought about the "fast" or "slow" bass that you were hearing. That’s something that happens at home in the reproduction chain, and it’s an artifact of integration errors. Remove the integration errors and the bass loses all sense of being fast or slow, just like live bass.

    For you this means something profound. If you hear a system (hopefully not yours) that sounds "fast" or "slow" in the bass, enough that you have noticed anyway, that system has a problem. It might be fixable if the bass is coming from a subwoofer with lots of adjustments. But most of the time, it will take some minor or major change to remove the fast or slow character. For example, when using Sat's, even changing say a stand, shelf or resting place can affect apparent bass speed because it changes the midrange of the electronic component or loudspeaker it is used with, not because it couples (or isolates) to the floor or shelf better. The different "shoe" simply changes the character of the midrange a little bit, and because the midrange and bass quality are so tightly intertwined, the quality of the bass changes too, even though nothing specifically changed in the bass itself.
    Simply put, my feelings are that low Distortion and well controlled linear motion are hugely important factors.
     
  10. John DB

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    Hi Stewart,
    I like a bit of dance music and have found no slowness whatsoever with my pair of S-15's. At first I had the wick turned up a little high and they were making themselves too 'obvious' if you know what I mean. So I Re-calibrated and now they are just godamn beautiful, can't stop listening to music at the mo :D

    With previous subwoofers I never could find the correct balance, sounded great with a particular track and then either too light or boomy with the next. No such problem now, everything is tight, deep and seamlessy integrated with the S-85's.
     
  11. dts_boy

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    yeah, you need to get rid of one of them and stick with the better performer. as a favour, i will give you £100 for the servo and let you enjoy the better sound - don't go tellin everyone that i do favours like this though!:D
     
  12. Stewart C

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    To the guys with the Servo 15's

    Thanks for your comments (thanks to all, Eric you're a star, now I need to study what you say).

    Back to the Servo 15 owners. Do you use the X 30 controllers to help integrate your subwoofer with the other speakers or is your sub a stand alone set up, using the insternal crossover of your amplifier/receiver.

    From what Eric is saying the phase is one aspect (of many) that can affect subwoofer/satellite speaker integration. As I do not have the X 30 controller, I am unable to tweak the phase to see if that improves things.

    Regards
     
  13. chips

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    I'm certainly not an expert on these matters, but for what it's worth I found that altering phase via the X30 did help when trying to integrate two subs.

    Now that I am using just the servo I'm not sure it is necessary. I still have it in circuit but don't find that phase setting makes a lot of difference to the overall sound. But I leave it at about 120 degrees which was the best setting with two subs. The servo is near the back of the room firing across the room (only place it will fit). When I was using two, the second sub was at the front with phase set to 0 degrees.

    It's really difficult to set phase with only one sub as my amp will only output sub test tone on it's own.

    Hope the above makes sense.
     
  14. John DB

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    I tried the X-30 at first and found that the phase control wasn't needed and 80hz was the sweetest crossover point anyway so I removed it from the chain. Both my subs are positioned under my screen firing forward into the room.

    Although its not a lot of help to you Stewart, the reason I bought 2 identical subs is purely because in the past I have tried to integrate a single sub with my s-85 80hz satellites and failed miserably :( This might be down to the rooms characteristics or my inexperience I dunno.

    Maybe you should just bite the bullet and get another minty S-15 from RS's latest consignment swiftly and direct form the warehouse before the remaining few start getting kicked around the RS branches, turning em into Eric/Chippys favourite firework :D

    Nothing to lose...


    P.s Chippy
    If my 2 hadn't turned up on the day I happened to quit the 40-fags-a-day habit (1 week w/out now :)) then believe me, Mrs DB would have had my Gallo's.
     

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