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New Seleco HT200 vs SONY VW10HT

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by tiberious, Nov 7, 2000.

  1. tiberious

    tiberious
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    The big showdown is set for Saturday when I demo these two head to head !.

    Meantime , I`ve been doing a little homework on the new Seleco - if you`re interested ,there is a full rundown and techspec on the Seleco website , and I`ve got to confess, I never realised that all input sources are deinterlaced and converted to progressive scan (albeit in basic way).I had got the impression that you couldn`t get PAL signals converted to Progressive scan , and that NTSC signals required the use of one of the new breed of DVD players - learning all the time !.

    Anyway, Seleco stats look good , and I must confess, I am hoping it is visibly better than the Sony (I am a worry monger , and would spend my life waiting for dead pixels or dust contamination - rightly or wrongly).

    I`ll report back after the demo.

    p.s I`m indebted to Gordon for explaining the Progressive Scan thing to me !
     
  2. tiberious

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    Okay , now I`m depressed !!

    Just found out the Seleco hasn`t come in - demo postponed for a week !!

    Darn it !!

    Can anyone at Owl bike one down for tomorrow ?

    Anyway , will take the opportunity to give the Sony a good grilling with TV and Video signals , and then have the head to head next Saturday !!

    Sob.
     
  3. tiberious

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    Well , this could be one of the longest (in time)threads ever !

    Just been told that STILL no Seleco for the demo - every one has been sold (including display models) ,and they are waiting for new deliveries from Italy.When are they due I asked - Last Tuesday was the reply !!.

    Not sure I like playing these games.Sad now.

    Anyway, I did have another look at the Sony last week. I am very lucky I think, because I am so old and infirm that I was unable to see any of the problems that have come up about this machine. I went up to 6 inches from the screen to try and see this "screen door" effect. Not saying it wasn`t there - just that I couldn`t see it ! - Ahhh ignorance is bliss !!.

    I had them run a VCR to check the video quality, and was hugely impressed ! - I thought it may look dreadful with the lower resolution , but looked great to me.Tv looked awful - but the signal was awful n the first place.I`m going to take my new JVC 7700 in tomorrow to run through. I`ve taped a few TV progs on SVHS, SVHS-ET,and VHS SP and LP , so I can check the picture on all levels.Hopefully it will look as good, if not better, than the pre recorded tape of Terminator2 they used last weekend.

    Blacks weren`t a problem at first - I tend to watch the "whole picture" rather than the components, but when studying it, I could see what people mean about "grey blacks", but that said, it certainly wouldn`t concern me in the least.I think if you have to think that hard about it, it really isn`t a problem.Only becomes a problem if you see something much better alongside it I expect (maybe I shouldn`t do the side by side after all !!).

    The only thing that did worry me a little was that tha picture was a tad "dark".Daylight scenes in "Matrix" weren`t really "bright".I`ll have another look tomorrow with the VCR pictures.Taped some of the cricket, so I can check bright skies etc .

    Anyway,the advice I have seen given time and again on this forum that "It`s only a problem if YOU think it`s a problem" - is probably the best advice I`ve had.I am someone who started with no knowledge, and tried to build a picture using research, before finally demo`ing.I think now that sometimes in my situation, you can do too much research - and worry like hell about things which in reality don`t affect "you".

    Still - keeps the mind occupied.

    Onwards.....
     
  4. charles

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    Listen,screw your loaf and dont bother with lcd-i auditioned the sony then auditioned a crt projector with built in line doubler(ellie)....i bought the crt projector for 2,800 pounds-a lot cheaper than the sony as well-but miles in front in terms of picture quality..
     
  5. Rob

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    Definately agree with that CRT rules for me too. With regard to the matrix, its pehaps not the best film to use as a reference, as the daylight scenes have a rather yellowey look to them. This was what the director intended, although I dont think its nrcessearily a good thing!

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  6. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Guys,

    We've already been through the CRT is better than LCD mangle in another thread. Tiberious doesn't have room/the inclination to get a CRT. The reasoning is detailed in another thread and is pretty sound.

    As for the Matrix, it was filmed with a green cast on scenes where they are "in the matrix". I've never seen it looking yellowish.

    At the end of the "dodge this scene" Trinity calls up Tank for a programme to allow her to fly the helicopter. When the scene jumps from Trinity to Tank (in the realworld) the colour difference is very apparent.

    Tiberious: You're correct about not missing what you've never had. However, unless you're needing the projector very soon it's probably worth waiting for the dem just to make sure.

    Keep us informed...

    Gordon


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  7. Rob

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    Sorry Gordon. I can't remember the film that well, I can just remember the picture looking dull, and for demo purposes I thought there were better discs to use. I too would be interested in the outcome of the audition.
    Regargs Rob.
     
  8. charles

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    Tiberious...you may not be able to go for crt-because of room etc...but i would rip a hole in the wall rather than have an lcd!!!
     
  9. Arthur.S

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    Well, I think we all agree; CRT is still best for picture quality. I think it'd be a mistake not to demo all 3 formats before you slosh your dosh! The one major PITA with CRT (& I speak as someone who had major grief) is the initial setup. Especially if it's a Seleco, it needs to be done by someone who knows what they are doing. You'll never see the full potential of the m/c otherwise. I paid almost £500 to the (CEDIA) dealer that I purchased my 310 from. Only to see them make a pigs ear of the job. DLP & LCD are obviously free from this hassle. Maybe that's why Tiberious is only looking at them?

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  10. tiberious

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    Third time lucky
     
  11. tiberious

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    Ok - this is the Fourth attempt to reply!! - each one gets shorter as I lose patience !

    CRT - Great but not appropriate.

    Sony - great with tv pal,ntsc ,vhs even looks better than on a tv - oh, and my oldest video (taped off the TV circa 1985)of "slapshot" has never looked better ! - God I`m easily pleased !.

    3 demos now , and I do think the Sony offers excellent VFM for those moving from a regular TV for the first time.

    My biggest grumble? - even with cinema black off , the pictures looked a little "overcast".
    Hopefully I will get to see the Seleco , and this will wow me even more - but I probably have 2 weeks max. before the builders will want my final plans.

    Maybe I`ll give Owl a call this afternoon and see what the chances are.

    Any "owls" out there ? give me a shout

    Later.....
     
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    Hi Tiberious,

    If you are the gentleman who arranged for the showdown with your dealer Audio T in Reading then I am very sorry that I let you down. The HT200 availability is a bit like rocking horse !*' at the moment. Hopefully I will get a projector to them by the end of the week.

    Regards

    Alan Roser
    Owl Video Systems Ltd
     
  13. tiberious

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    Ooh , Oooh !!

    Alan - thanks for the note - my showdown is indeed with Audio T , but it`s in Epsom (not Reading !!) - hopefully it`s the same one, and we can "get it on" this weekend !.
     
  14. tiberious

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    HAD A GOOD LOOK AT THE HT200 ON FRIDAY- INSTANT VERDICT - OH , MY , GOD!!.

    First off , my grateful thanks to Alan Roser and Owl for taking the time to show me this machine , and make it such an entertaining experience - nice one.

    Also , bear in mind, as I have said all along, I look at these things through the eyes of a "newbie" - so you`ll find no fancy technical descriptions here !.

    I took down my JVC SVHS7700 vcr along with the same set of tapes. Pre recorded ntsc and pal , Off air VHS/svhs/SVHS-ET.In addition we looked at region 1 and 2 DVD , via Alans Toshiba 9100 PRO-SCAN dvd player , as pro scan and interlaced (phew !).

    I viewed the image on an 8ft screen , from a distance of about 18 ft - although I made regular forays to different screen ranges.

    I found that the "screen door effect" was more noticeable on the HT200 than it was on the SONY (presumably because of the greater resolution of the Sony),when viewed close up.I started next to the screen and paced back until the effect disappeared - 10-12ft away from the screen I could not see ANY screen door(this would equate to the minimum 1.5x screen width distance from screen which is generally recommended ).

    As I don`t tend to sit with my face glued to the screen , this is a "non - problem" ! , but in the interests of fairness , I`ll give this to Sony.

    Colours . Oh God, colours.
    I said before , if you don`t compare the Sony to anything else , it is a great machine , and I loved it.Problem is, now I have compared it !!!!.

    Colours on the HT200 ARE GORGEOUS !!.They are bright , vibrant and deep.The test screen for colours is stunning (we did look at the same test pattern via a CRT projector at the other end of the room - a seleco 450 I believe - and the HT200 blew it away IMO).
    User controls are dead easy ,blacks on this certainly make the Sony look "blue".
    Runaway win for HT200 here !.

    Brightness - Although the HT200 has a lower lamp output than the Sony , it appears to use it more efficiently. I said before, I found I needed to run the Sony with CINEMA BLACK off most off the time to get the kinf of picture I liked (almost).The HT200 was able to produce a "brighter" image ,whilst retaining the deep blacks and vibrant colours.
    The Sony has the bigger "headline" brightness , but the HT200 WINS THIS ONE (its not how big it is, it`s how you use it!)

    Screen manipulation. A draw here - both do everything I would want (19:9/4:3/zoom etc etc) its deeper black bars , you could argue the HT200 sneeaks it).

    The optical adjustment feature on the HT200 is perfect for my needs - it will allow me to mount the projector on a bookshelf at the rear of my new room, mounted sufficiently high to throw over the seats in front , without the need for digital keystone correction.For me a winner , for others - the SONY is better if space is at a premium, but yyou still want a large picture.

    Cost - Sony is much cheaper (£3986 vs £5995 for the HT200), so it is a tough choice.If you are on a limited budget - get the Sony(but whatever you do, don`t demo the HT200 as well - what the eye doesn`t see, the heart doesn`t grieve over), If quality and depth are more important than cost, then it`s the HT200.Every time.

    Oh, by the way, I couldn`t see any "RAINBOW EFFECT", so I asked Alan to show me.He said I could see this effect better by spreading my fingers and waving my hand quickly in front of my eyes.I still couldn`t see it.It was only when we had the CRT AT ONE END OF THE ROOM , AND THE ht200 at the other ,and I stood in the middle and shook my head backwards and forwards VERY QUICKLY that I could see what he was talking about.I did this for 2-3 seconds.It hurt my neck - ALOT!!.I do not envisage ever doing this at home, and therefore I can say that "in the real world" - Rainbow effect is non- existent.

    In summary - I WANT ONE !!.Watch Toy Story
    2 on this projector - perfection !.

    Alan - I am indebted to you. Customer service par excellence.Time flew so quickly, I didn`t realise how late I`d kept you.Thanks again.
     
  15. lmccauley

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    Thanks for the comparative review. I'm hoping to look at a range of projectors early next year (depending on how quickly the train service to Glasgow improves) and this has certainly whetted my appetite. The HT200 sounds very nice, though £6k is probably too much for me.
    I can't wait to see what the differences between the types (LCD, DLP, CRT) are, as I'm trying hard not to have too many preconceptions before I audition.

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  16. charles

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    tiberius...get a demo of the ellie crt-i have mine in a cabinet,and its 12 ft from the screen-this picture is miles in front of the sony lcd-and its 3,995 pounds.

    I havnt seen the seleco-but i know it dont resolve up to 6.3 mhz-as does the ellie...
     
  17. Black 5

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    Charles,

    You must work for Ellie [​IMG] How many times in this thread do you have to be told that Tiberious cannot have a CRT installation?
    Can you please give it a rest - I'm sure you're very pleased with your choice
     
  18. Alan Westy

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    I feel I must comment on Charles continual plugging of the Ellie projector and why after seeing one I decided to buy a Seleco instead. The Ellie projector itself may be a good projector but on the demonstration I had I was not able to gauge its full potential for the following reasons.

    1. The projector was being demonstrated in an ordinary living room with magnolia walls and ceilings, and with only curtains to block out the daylight, so there was a high ambient light in the room.

    2. The projector appeared to be on a movable trolley with castors so it could be moved out of the way when not in use, and therefore not in a fixed situation which I would have expected from a CRT projector.

    3. There was interference pattern on the picture which I was told was the S-vhs lead from the DVD to the projector, when I enquired why this had not been sorted out I was told that some days it was not there and that basically they did not know how to get rid of this interference.

    4. I was told that the screen quality did not matter and that it was just as good on a white wall.

    5. The only DVD's available for demo were either cartoons which always show well or Titanic which is not anaormorphic and therefore does not enable the projector to be seen in its best light.

    6. The deomonstrating staff did not know if it would work with a quadscan scaler and did in fact seem to have not even heard of the quadscan.

    Considering the above I would have thought that if a company was presenting a new product to the market they would have wannted to show it in its best circumstances and this was not the case, this coupled with the vagueness of the answers I got on technical questions led me to go with the Seleco.
     
  19. charles

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    black 5...dont tell me to give it a rest-i wasnt talking to you anyway-no i dont work for ellie...and as far as not having a crt-many people think in terms of having it on the ceiling not in a cabinet...being an advocate of trying to achieve the best picture possible i was merely trying to tip the nod thats all....so you know what you can do-thats presuming theres room up there for it...
     
  20. charles

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    alan......where did you have this demo?
    but anyway,you say yourself that it wasnt set-up properly-had a dodgy lead..in virtual daylight etc...etc..well i`m sure you would agree that you didn`t see it at its best..
    In addition to this,the quality of the internal line doubler(..made by barco)is that good you wouldnt need a scaler.
    In addition to this,because a dealer has not heard of a certain product doesnt make him crap-i havn`t heard of the scaler you mention either-but i could probably name 10 home cinema products you have never heard of either...so what...
     
  21. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Charles,

    Are there dealers for the Ellie?

    I thought that it was a "direct from the distributor" product which would suggest the dem was with the company that distributes them.

    Gordon

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  22. Jagular

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    Alan,
    Good, that’s your choice!

    TWIMC,

    I thought at one time this Internet thingy was quite boring! But Wow! Quite the contrary! Search for the Cinema in the “coal shed” remark, HA! HA! HA! HA! Sad lot aren’t we?

    I must admit to being an “Ellie” fan myself but, "You can lead a Camel to Water, but you can't make it DRINK!"
    For me! 3 months later and the excitement still hasn’t worn off! I can only remember this ever happening once before.
    Charles, I don’t recommend getting too exited in public, it might look suspicious! Brits aren’t renown for that are we?

    Alan, as far as screensuk's demo facilities are concerned, it only consolidates the fact that for ‘Joe public’ the magnolia painted lounge is the only practical room they have to watch TV and DVD in! (..worst-case scenario.)

    In other words, if you have a dedicated room, paint your walls dark red, dim your lights and sit back in your armchair it can only get BETTER can't it??? Is red the best alternative to the coal shed???

    Don’t you have your own DVD’s?

    Also it’s quite refreshing to think that screensuk didn’t push the product in a tarted up form just to sell it!
    When I decided to have one, I was told to go away and think about it for 2 days before jumping in. How about that for confidence!

    Sorry if you non-ellie fans are ****ed-off with us happy customers! Sorry if there’s not enough to go round! Sorry! Sorry I spoke!

    Rob.

    Ps. Sorry! ‘God I’m depressed, I think I’ll watch a film.

     
  23. charles

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    yes ..your right-get too excited about a product and the good old english think somethings amiss....i know i have banged on about the ellie-but only because i want people to get the maximum quality for the minimum price.
    And the sad truth is that the ellie is not easilly obtainable at your local dealers-you must search it out...but its true,i almost feel sorry for the people who have bought sony lcd`s and the like(the new seleco dlp-what a joke-6 grand???...for what?)...

    i`d play playstation games on these machines,but home cinema...come on...but i guess its what you are used to i suppose.....i may be banging on-but at least its about a superior product.....
     
  24. tiberious

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    Charles

    Thankyou for your dedication in pushing the Eliie , and CRT in general.I think most people agree CRT will give you the finest picture .

    Think on a tangent however - it is not always what is best , but what is best for you , given your cicumstances.

    An example.I have trained in the Martial Arts for many years , and this little story will , I hope, make my point.

    2 guys agree to fight .There is an array of weaponry lined up against a wall, from which they may choose -

    knife - gun - stick - hand grenade .

    which one would you choose ?

    The answer, of course, depends on where the fight will take place. A hand grenade is obviously the most destructive weapon , and would be your weapon of coice maybe, if the fight was to be on open ground.But what if the fight was in a telephone box ? , the grenade is still the most destructive, but in an enclosed environment , the knife would now be my choice.

    Look at the ellie as a grenade , and the seleco and sony as the knife.

    I want to be able to take my projector to my mates house for the odd impromptu evening, or to my grandparents house to show them the latest home videos(other reasons already stated on thread).Can you do that with CRT - I don`t think you can.Can you do it with DLP/LCD yes you can.Does that make DLP/LCD better than CRT ?
    Well , that depends on whether you`re in a field, or in a phone box........

     
  25. charles

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    Tiberious-an unusual analogy-but i get what your saying.
    But you are looking at it from a convenience perspective-i am looking at it from a best picture for the price perspective.
    if it is convenience that you are after-then why not the toshiba mt1(or wait for the mt2)for 2.5k?....its the lightest...and the picture is good enough...
     
  26. coolgools

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    charles

    in the near future I will be purchasing a projector for my newly purpose built auditorium (one day).My initial plan was to buy a sony 10ht, until i saw review of THE ELLIE (sounds like something out of Deep Impact),since u r so raving about this projector please inform about the following:
    1) is ellie 16:9 compatible ie for anormorphic dvds?
    2) does it have keystone correction...whatever that is?
    3)how do I connect up all my exsiting sources ie DVd, vcr , sky digital ,on digital and additional digital sat box (non-sky)to the ellie?
    4)if .. sorry.. when my purpose built cinema comes to life What would be the ideal size?
    18ft x 25ft?? (to view 8/10ft screen with adeqaute space on each side for L & R speakers?
    5) what colour should the walls be??????

    6) my current equipment list-->upgrade to

    Sony 48su5 r/proj. tv-------> ellie 200ht/scn
    yamaha a2 amp --------->denon avca1se
    tannoy 609/11 fronts-------->B&W 603s2
    B&Wlr6 centre --------->add 1 for rear
    jamo 300 rear bi------------>keep
    pioneer 717 multi dvd------->keep
    rel q100e sub ---------->keep plus add 1
    phillips pronto remote------>keep for now

    what do you think of my future upgrade based on a limited budget but get very high quality equipment.naturally i'll have to demo all equipment before purchasing.

    anybody please free to comment although as of yet i have not worked ot my true budget bet estimates around £8000 for equipment and £12,000 for buiilding the room from scratch-single storey ( I had a brick garage built for £2500..13ft by 16ft )
    coolgools..thanks


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    [This message has been edited by coolgools (edited 12-12-2000).]

    [This message has been edited by coolgools (edited 12-12-2000).]
     
  27. tiberious

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    Charles

    I like you !.You are the "Dennis Wise" of the Forum - tenacious, committed (sometimes a little over the top !LOL !).

    Your point is well taken.So why the Seleco ?

    I started knowing nothing - my original concept was for a 50" rear projection Tv.I then moved on to Plasma , before finally arriving at front projection - all due to trawling the forums , and soliciting the opinions of those,like yourself,who could guide me to the best result.

    Even now, when I talk to friends , they cannot understand why I would go "downmarket"from a Plasma to a projector.They,like I, formulate their opinion based on their experience in pubs and clubs - and unsurprisingly come to the conclusion that all projectors are crap.I now know that to be false - they will have to take my word for it until they view my set up with their own eyes - and they too will be converted.

    Projectors are not praised enough.Looking back, I can`t believe I considered a machine which weighed 98kg, had a 50" diag screen, and could only be viewed from "the sweet" position.£2000 wasted.

    Value for money has its place - why buy milk in M+S for £1.40 , when you can buy it for 99p in Safeway ?.

    With Electronics ,I make an exception.I will be using this equipment every day - my eyes and ears will remind me every minute I am there that I made a mistake,or I made the right choice.

    The word "upgrade" is frightening - but we all do it.I take VFM over a period of time - how often would I upgrade , what would be the cost , the hassle of selling the old equipment....etc.

    So this is me. I buy the best possible quality I can afford which fulfils my criteria - does it look good,does it sound good,can I afford it.

    With children running around, I can`t afford the aggravation of reconvergence if a CRT got knocked , or the space required to build a safe enough "home" for it as a floor mount. A ceiling mount is impossible , as its home is to be a loft conversion, and the screen top will be 30" lower than the ceiling height.

    Why not the Toshiba ? - I`ve yet to meet anyone who could honestly say the performance is anywhere near that of the Seleco(or the Sony for that matter).Yes it is less than half the price of the sony or Seleco - but I know it would fail my test - I would sit and watch every day, knowing that I could have had a much better picture, and in a short space of time I would sell it , and buy what I should have bought in the first place.Cost ?

    Seleco

    No dust problems - sealed optics
    No convergence problems
    Portability
    Long throw adjustable lens (perfect for my particular situation)
    Remote upgrading of software
    Good contrast and Lovely colours
    Easy to use - my wife can use it (essential)
    The most helpful and professional distributer I have ever met(thanks again Alan).

    I read on the AVS Forum that the Seleco, teamed with the new "Panomorph" anomorphic lens gives an astonishing picture.I loved the "native" picture, so when I get itchy for that upgrade.... there is 30% more vertical resolution and brightness to be had for minimal cost.

    One day , maybe I will move house and have a more "conventional" room available which would make CRT a possibility, but by that time what else will technology have put on the platter !!

    The Projector community needs people like yourself who are passionate about the Cause -
    let`s educate the masses about ALL forms - lcd/dlp/crt - they all have their merits, and will be applicable to some ,not others, but what they all give is access to a screen size that Tv owners can only ever dream about,and chosen wisely - can fulfill your dreams every day.


     
  28. Jagular

    Jagular
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    Coolgools,
    With a handle like that you gota go far!

    No! Seriously! Can I impart what I’ve found out so-far?
    Ellie spec:

    1) YES
    2) YES
    3) All connections through AV Amp for composite and sound, with monitor out to projector. S-Video direct to projector. My S-Video cable is 10m.
    4) 1.5 x screen width from screen to lens +1ft to mounting bracket. + 2ft to rear of projector.
    5) Up to you!
    6) How much are you charging on the door?

    Mine’s in the Lounge 24 x 13ft, the Garage is used as a music room so I’m demoted to the house. Unfortunate that!
    Hope this is of some use in your decision.
    Jagular.

     
  29. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    You need to be careful with Jagulars advice.

    If you connect all sources to your amplifier for composite video and audio switching and then only feed an s-vid signal to the projector you need to make sure that the amplifer is capable of converting composite to s-video. I don't think the Denon specified does that. Meridian video switchers do though.


    You could. instead feed all video sources to the amp in s-video and then feed that on to the projector. You'd need to get some special cables and boxes to do conversion of
    composite from the vcr and downconversion of RGB to s-vid from the digital set top boxes.

    Gordon

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    StereoStereo
    Intelligent Solutions for Intelligent Homes !
     
  30. charles

    charles
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    Yes-i have all my sources to the amp(via s-video)-then s-vhs to the projector-i have found that very long runs of s-vhs can introduce interference-but this only seems apparent after 15metres.(my run is 20ft approx-and theres no loss..)
    I would also mention that the difference between s-vhs/rgb/component video is so negligable its ridiculous-in fact,quite often i have seen rgb give worse results than s-vhs!....component is a variant of rgb-and appears slightly more stable-but again-the difference is in a lab result not the picture!

    The real question should be how many lines of resolution are lost in the down conversion process of dvd-which,though it can theoretically produce 540lines of resolution-loses about 40 lines in the process-this then produces 500 lines res.

    The difference between pal and ntsc are not so apparent-as its only a signal introduced in the encoding process of dvd.

    So remember,it is the source that counts in transferring the best possible picture to your projector.a line doubler will only make the line structure of a 500 line picture look less apparent on a large screen-but it adds no more detail as such-rather fills in the gaps-unless you take the sony variant-drc-which aims to create more info to fill in the gaps by analysing the horizontal and vertical(it is more involved than this-but this is simplified).But in real terms most line doublers can soften the picture because their trying to get three pints out of two.

    But the real key to the best picture-i think-is colour reproduction and black level.(hence the reason i have a crt..)-that is also why i would buy a toshiba mt1 over a sony lcd OR the seleco dlp-because i think ,on these levels ,it comes out tops..but then i also believe that the sharp 60 lcd-is still the best of the bunch-and you can pick one up for about 2k if you shop around..the trick is dont buy the hype-get the most you can for your money..(the seleco is a non-starter i believe down to its price...6k!!!!)....i mean ..if i had that sort of money at the moment-i would get a sony crt on interest free for another 4k.If you want a great dlp-go for the 3 chip runco dlp-it`ll wipe the floor with the seleco!!!

    The sony lcd(and my thoughts are well known on this!!!)is probably the most overhyped product in recent years-and i have looked at many demos of this-and still cant see what people like!!!!(4.5k....naaaaahhhh...still too much..)-but i guess ive been spoilt...

    Apparently,hitachi are bringing out an lcd as well-should be worth a look....but early adopters of the seleco-be warned-this is really a 3k product+3 k of premium for the newness and desirability of the dlp technology...
     

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