New Satelite System required

[bradleigh1977]

Hi everyone, i have recently posted on the freesat board, and will be instaling freesat for the kids next week...now. I have sky + hd, allthe channels, and freesat next week. What i was thinking of was sticking another satelite either motorised or not, on the chimmney. This would only be a cheap one, as i've seen how much the kits are. Now im not foreign, i dont want to watch foreign soaps, like a lot of the polish and eastern european do, as i have seen they all have satelites to watch programs from their country.


What do i want it for? i dont know. Is there anything i'm missing out on? i.e any "adult art" films after 9pm on rtl (like it used to be in 1988 when we had an amstrad fidelity--tutti frutti--hahaha ) sorry:

Can i pick upany german channels they may have premiership football on, or middle eastern channels that play football? or any channels that play new films out?

OR is it not worth it? I dont want to pay any more subscriptions, so if the ONLY way of getting anything descent is to buy expensive viewing cards etc then i suppose its not worth it?

ill have to stick with the local chinese man....5 dvd ten pound....

any help would be appreciated

brad

 

[pedro2000uk]

There are quite a few free channels that, added to Freesat & the non Freesat channels on 28e make up a pretty decent free package using motorised & without subs or card share or patching.

You need a dish of a certain size [80cm+] to include the weaker Arabsat @ 26e which has free movies & programs on it in English with English 7 day EPG etc.. some can be Premier movies & 1st time on TV anywhere in the world, plus other gems round the arc - [usually subtitled locally with the original English sound track]

There are quite a lot of free sports channels inc' footy & the odd EPL transmitted free but most EPL is subscription.

There are loads of adult art channels of various quality & more later at night.

Nilesat has many of the same channels as Arabsat plus a few others but that requires a bigger dish still.

You don't need to install it on a chimney to get a good arc either & there are certain issues there- a good survey is important.

 

[logiciel]

There are a large number of free channels on a large number of satellties, but whether they're worth it is a matter of opinion!
Here's the place to find out about them: Europe, Africa & Middle East - LyngSat.
A motorised dish will get you most of those that are accessible from the UK, or you could have three or four of your choice from a fixed dish.
I go the second way - and hardly ever watch anything from it.
Those free sports, films, and adult/arts channels have eluded me, though I've looked plenty!
Of course there are a whole lot of channels that are not free, that you may or not be able to buy subscriptions to.
A fixed dish wouldn't cost a lot, a motorised would be maybe a little more.
Where the money would be needed though would be for the receiver - have you thought about that?

 

[bradleigh1977]

So if i wanted a fixed sat, whats the best sats to point at? or whats the best degree to be pointing at, I just want to stick it up, and leave it. As for the chimney, its the only space i have for it!!! Thanks for the info so far.

Im not thick, just never had to find satelites before, but can you get the two you have mentioned above with a fixed dish? i mean 28e and 26e, or if not and you had to pick one place to point it, what would it be?

 

[lou_smorals]

Hi
Diseqc motors are fairly easy to set up if your pole is dead straight and plumb, if not waste of time. You may consider a fixed dish up to 95cm (I believe this is maximum in most areas that dont require planning permission) and stick a monoblock LNB up with will enable two satellites fairly close to one another. You may aslo consider a "wave frontier" system which will allow you add as many satellites as you wish - however far apart (but this is a fair bit more difficult to set up.
Good luck m8
LS

 

[bradleigh1977]

i typed the other reply while you were typing logiciel!

I haven't really thought about the reciever, i have seen lots of them, and thought i would buy the package. Im not bothered about HD on it, or as a recorder, something like this..


TECHNOMATE TM 5200 D USB PVR MOTORISED SATELLITE SYSTEM | eBay UK

Thats ok isn't it? ( i know its motorised )


One more thing, but is the power to the motor of the dish line driven through the cable? or does it need a seperate source?

 

[pedro2000uk]

i typed the other reply while you were typing logiciel!

I haven't really thought about the reciever, i have seen lots of them, and thought i would buy the package. Im not bothered about HD on it, or as a recorder, something like this..


TECHNOMATE TM 5200 D USB PVR MOTORISED SATELLITE SYSTEM | eBay UK

Thats ok isn't it? ( i know its motorised )


One more thing, but is the power to the motor of the dish line driven through the cable? or does it need a seperate source?

it's not what we'd use & with a poor motorised system you will just drive past the best channels and could become convinced they are not there.

the dish brand is not named, the motor is not one we use*- the bracket, the lnb, the coax etc. etc. etc... only the TM5200 is one we use.

You don't really need the most expensive gear to make it a good install- just really well chosen gear.

*I also don't like the way the motor box has the motor placed to obscure the name so it can look like a Darkmotor Superior - that is one we do use.

No extra power or cables are needed- the motors run on the LNB power

 

[logiciel]

So if i wanted a fixed sat, whats the best sats to point at? or whats the best degree to be pointing at
can you get the two you have mentioned above with a fixed dish? i mean 28e and 26e

The two strongest groups are 13E and 19E, so they'd be fine on quite a small dish, or you could add 9E and/or 23.5E.
You already have 28E, the group that does the UK channels, and 26E needs the larger dish.

The guys here try to get me over to motorised, but if I did I wouldn't go for a ready made package like the one on EBay,
First I'd decide on the receiver, which could be that Techno 5402, but for a little more could be a better one of theirs - such as mine.
For the dish I'd get quotations for supply and fix from local installers.
My preference would still be for a fixed 60cm dish with three or four LNBs.

Before anything though I'd take a good look at the satellite and channel listings and decide just how interested I was going to be in German and Polish SD channels!

Back in the original enquiry you weren't going to spend a lot, and you didn't know whether you were missing out on anything worth having, and we've taken you this far along the way to deciding, but there's still plenty more to think about so feel free to ask.

 

[pedro2000uk]

If you go down the fixed dish/ multi LNB route- straight way you lose the power of a dish on all but the middle satellites, the further you go out from the focus satellite, the weaker it gets so again weak satellites go unless you buy a dedicated dish for multi LNBs.

A motorised uses all the dish on each satellite & each beam if needed [if it's installed properly].

Buying even a decent dish mail order has got it's problems too in damage by shipping- I think it's very difficult to post dishes- the face tolerance is 0.5mm from decent manufacturers & about 2.3mm max before power starts to drop & is replaced by noise- again that also means the best sats can disappear.

 

[bradleigh1977]

ok thanks again for all the help, its great that you are all so helpfull.

Do you reccomend any systems? not really expensive, wether seperates or a whole system?

I didnt really want to pay someone to do it, as im quite competent and know what i'm doing. i live in west yorkshire near oldham, so i think i need a descent size dish?

 

[lou_smorals]

If you go down the fixed dish/ multi LNB route- straight way you lose the power of a dish on all but the middle satellites, the further you go out from the focus satellite, the weaker it gets so again weak satellites go unless you buy a dedicated dish for multi LNBs.

A motorised uses all the dish on each satellite & each beam if needed [if it's installed properly].

Buying even a decent dish mail order has got it's problems too in damage by shipping- I think it's very difficult to post dishes- the face tolerance is 0.5mm from decent manufacturers & about 2.3mm max before power starts to drop & is replaced by noise- again that also means the best sats can disappear.

Hi
as I advised, Wave frontier system is dedicated multi LNB fixed dish system, I dont know anybody that isnt happy with it.
LS

 

[pedro2000uk]

Hi
as I advised, Wave frontier system is dedicated multi LNB fixed dish system, I dont know anybody that isnt happy with it.
LS

Definitely -

... but they are not cheap when you add up the cost of loads of lnbs, extra lnb holders? & diseqc switches, & I can't remember the max arc they can get or max number of satellites & the losses/ noise caused by the switches, but we routinely get over 100 degrees & 40+ satellites- 1 lnb x 1 motor job done, so they're not for everyone..... still nice though.

We've got a Raven 90 in atm- looks like a big sky dish & designed more for multi's... not as good as a WF.

 

[logiciel]

For fixed, any 60cm dish with either a monobloc LNB for 13 and 19, or a bracket for three or more LNBs for those and one or two others.
For motorised look here, where they also have the Techno receivers: Motorised satellite dishes from Satellite Superstore UK..
The location makes very little difference to the size of dish unless you're way north, which you are not.
Rather than get up on the chimney with a satellite meter I'd go for the local DVD man.

 

[pedro2000uk]

The last time I did an install where the customer had bought from Sat Superstore it was a complete & utter balls up & I had to mod their gear on site to get it to work because they'd designed it wrong (& charged the Earth for it) & I made the mistake of letting them offer a fix & that was even worse & would have been far better leaving my mod.

& that 80cm Triax they are advertising is at best 74cm on surface area & 70cm in offset & would not do what an 80 would (never heard anyone calling them an 80).

We only buy trade & design a lot of our own brackets so can't really think who to send you to that isn't trade...

Systemsat are OK on most things if you pick the right gear...& what about Satshop, SouthernSatellite or Satcure?

 

[pedro2000uk]

....... any "adult art" films after 9pm on rtl (like it used to be in 1988 when we had an amstrad fidelity--tutti frutti--hahaha ) sorry:

Just had a movie on, on Prima on 45e .... it finished at 11:30 & it's turned into an "adult art" channel - Kanal D does on Thor. all in English

 

[Rick1]

The wave is good, but takes quite alot of setting up. I've had 1w to 42e setup on mine.
I think I will be modding the rail to allow finer adjustment of the LNB position to get the best out of it. For a single reciever a motorised usually is the best option, though for multiple recievers multi LNB had definate advantages.

The photo is of my t90 5w-26e

 

[pedro2000uk]

Now that's a multi LNB setup- nice one Rick..

The idea is that the outer LNBs don't lose power the further out from the middle you go compared to using a standard dish. I think they quote 40 degrees maximum & you can push it a bit further.

 

[Rick1]

I've had 43 from it, but it was scraping the outer offsets (1w and 42e) which should be no problem. I'm thinking of designing a new rail, which would allow more fine adjustment on the LNB's. I've done abit of experimenting free holding lnb's and think it will definatley improve performance.

That gives me 5w, 1w, 5e, 9e, 10e, 13e, 16e, 19e, 23.5e and 26e, not pictured I've a zone2 for 28e, a 1m gibby currently on 30w, and my 1.2m fibo that can see 13e - 30w on it's ground mount.

Here's the switching which is short of a little tidy up yet

 

[steford]

I think if you have a specific requirement then a fixed dish or motor is fine. If it's just a passing interest then you may well be disappointed by the quality, if not the range, of channels available. There is a lot out there but most of it unwatchable without an interest or need. I've spent £1000s over the years on receivers, motors, dishes and subscriptions for my specific needs - 3PM EPL on and my wife's Japanese channels. Keeping up with movies and other programmes is hard unless you are keen and so I rarely use my setup for this.

Of course your "requirement" may be just to have a look. If that's the case then why not? Would definitely recommend a motor and at least an 80cm dish as others have suggested. A cheap linux box should see you through.

 

[bradleigh1977]

Thanks again for all the info, i shall do some investigating on prices. As for the chimney, i have loft windows, and access is easy. i live in a conservation area, and someone over the road had a real big motorised dish with lights etc on the back of his house, and was made to take it down as it was really noisy.

I hope these questions don't sound stupid, but

do i have to set the dish in all the different positions (motorised ) and then it saves them? or can i/ do i , control the dish from the reciever? i mean i can use the receiver to find the sats? i know you all know the answers, im just a novice at satelites. AV im a demon, the setup in my house is awesome, All Samsung, blu ray, av amp, speakers, sub, etc . I suppose i could get someone to install it, as i know it wont take long, especially if i put it on the front of my house, where the other dish is.

Thanks again for all your advice.

 

[steford]

Using USALS you just pop in your latitude/longitide once and the motor/STB does the rest. If you change channel and the dish needs to move it does. All very simple these days.

 

[logiciel]

Once the motorised dish is aligned to a specific satellite, the receiver directs it to the one that's required for the channel that you have selected. That takes time of course, depending on how far apart the previous and current satellites are.
With a fixed system the receiver simply selects the required satellite so that the channel appears as quickly as if it were on the same satellite. That's done by a switch that normally takes up to four satellites, but as you see from Rick's setup more than one switch can be fitted, should you wish to use your skills to set up a dish like his!
Steford makes a point worth careful consideration: "If it's just a passing interest then you may well be disappointed by the quality, if not the range, of channels available."
To quality I'd add content, and although the range is there a lot of it is encrypted.

 

[pedro2000uk]

Thanks again for all the info, i shall do some investigating on prices. As for the chimney, i have loft windows, and access is easy. i live in a conservation area, and someone over the road had a real big motorised dish with lights etc on the back of his house, and was made to take it down as it was really noisy.

I would be very concerned at the fact that you are in a 'conservation area' & certainly would steer away from putting a dish on a chimney - you should look to installing it either on the back or in the back garden. The latest motors are quiet though.

I hope these questions don't sound stupid, but

do i have to set the dish in all the different positions (motorised ) and then it saves them? or can i/ do i , control the dish from the reciever? i mean i can use the receiver to find the sats?.....

You can set it to diseqc 1.2 where that lets you find & store each satellite usually at a much higher resolution & always spot on as diseqc 1.2 is basically public domain- most use USALS or reverse engineered equivalents (diseqc 1.3, goto x etc..) that should calculate any satellite's position to 0.1 of a degree but the calculations behind it should be working at a higher resolution [if both the motor's & receiver's software have been produced properly- some can be out, any that have the STAB USALS logo will be spot on & most a pretty good].

Like anything, there's a big range of what is a decent high motorised install & crap and anything in between.

 

[bradleigh1977]

ok great, what sort of money is it going to cost me to have someone install it and set all that stuff up above!!!!

And as for my reasons, maybe down the line, ill buy a card or subscription etc, as while ive been looking at systems, they also are selling cards etc---adult cards, pub sports etc...

whats likely to be on the pub sports package? and is it worth getting something like that...

 

[logiciel]

It's about domestic card sales, not pub - this gives you an idea: Football Cards.
Apparently the only advantage of going for something like that, rather than for a Sky subscription at a quarter the price, is that you get to see some games live that aren't live on Sky.