New router needed - but with or without modem?

Autopilot

Distinguished Member
You can enter IP address, netmask (range of addresses within the same IP range) or all in either source or destination field. There is a 64 routing rules limit.

I take it that one rule could be used for a number of devices, if you specify a range of IP addresses?
 

oneman

Active Member
I take it that one rule could be used for a number of devices, if you specify a range of IP addresses?
How many devices do you want using the 4G connection ? If its not a huge number then the easiest option might be give each of them a static or reserved IP and then create one rule for each device.
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
Perhaps readers might appreciate a bit of a basic "routing" 1-on-1:

Deciding which "interface" to despatch traffic through is what "routers" do. In a typical SOHO router this is pretty simple as they only have two interfaces - one egresses onto the local LAN and one egresses to your ISP. So the decisions of the routing engine buried in your SOHO omni-box are pretty simple - inbound egresses through LAN, outbound egresses through WAN and anything I don't know what to do with, send out the WAN also.

Routers make their routing decisions based on a "table" of "routes" that describe the required traffic flow and the router does a lookup in this table for every packet it receives in order to determine where to send the traffic next.

The typical SOHO use case makes it pretty simple for an ISP to ship a box with the routing table pre-configured and thusly it'll "just work" when you turn it on as there's only 2 routes to think about.

In a router with two WAN links, things step up a level of complexity as you now have to decide which WAN link to despatch traffic through and it's not obvious which one you should choose. So it's over to you dear user to start building your own routing table.

If you create a routing table with an entry on a per device basis, pretty soon you are going to have a long table which increases the time it takes to do the lookups. And/or you might run out of available table entries on SOHO kit as it may severely limit the number of entries available.

So you may want to box clever a bit and start wild-carding the addresses for the routing table entries. For example (and I'm arbitrarily making up the addresses) let's say I want to group my local devices by IP address so that all traffic from addresses in the range 192.168.0.64 thru 192.168.0.127 egresses up WAN B and everything else defaults to WAN A (the "default route" often expressed as 0.0.0.0.) That will yield economy in routing table entries (and may increase performance a tad) as the range of addresses I've illustrated can be wild-carded and only need one routing table entry. (The nomenclature used to specify the range has a couple of variations, so check your manual.)

Thence I organise the IP addresses of the devices in my LAN so that they do/don't fall into the specified range in order to control which traffic nominally egresses through WAN B and which through WAN A rather than having to create and maintain lots of routing table entries on a "per device" basis. I'd effect the internal IP addressing in the "normal way" either using static IP addresses or "fixed" DHCP Leases.

There's other tools in the trick bag depending on the capability of your router such as load balancing, prioritisation of routes, fail-over and fail-back, congestion and so on, but hopefully this gives some idea of the fundamentals.
 
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oneman

Active Member
To add to Mick excellent note, the more complex you make your setup the more chance that you make a mistake either now or 6 months down the road when you have forgotten what you did in the first place. And the complex something is the higher the chance of failure and the harder it is to track down.
 

Autopilot

Distinguished Member
Just thought I would add that I got a the Asus router mentioned with dual WAN, plus a Draytek Vigor 130 modem. The modem is not quite as fast as my stock Vodafone for some reason, but the ping is lower. As for the router, the WiFi is much improved and I don’t have to use any AP’s or extenders now.

Anyway, I then plugged my Hauwei b525 4G/LTE modem into LAN1, put the router dual WAN mode and boom, worked straight away. The rule function for setting certain devices to use each WAN works well.

Strange, but when I ran Speedtest on my phone, I got a result much faster than my fastest connection, almost like the two combined. Load balancing doesn’t bond the connection, so I’m guessing it’s something to do with the multi-point feature of the speed test app.

I’ll turn DCHP off in the 4G router, but it doesn’t have a proper bridge mode so I’ll have to accept a double NAT situation with that for now. I’m not entirely sure what problems that will cause yet.
 

oneman

Active Member
Which model did you end up going for ?

And you are only double NAT certain devices so should be OK in general.
 

Autopilot

Distinguished Member
Which model did you end up going for ?

And you are only double NAT certain devices so should be OK in general.

Asus AX88U. And yeah, that’s what I was thinking with NAT, and devices that it’s an issue for can before set to use WAN1.
 

Autopilot

Distinguished Member
I notice the router has a disable NAT option for each wan. Would that have the effect of fixing the double NAT, or cause other issues?
 

mushii

Distinguished Member
The biggest problem with Double NAT will be gaming consoles. Double NAT is problematic for them
 

Autopilot

Distinguished Member
Yeah, I’m using a WAN route rule to force the gaming PC to use the primary WAN, which isn’t doubled NAT. So far so good, but only been running it for a few hours.

My security cams and smart devices are all set to use WAN2, which is a 4G router. DCHP is off but it’s double NAT. So far I have tested everything I can think of and everything works as normal, so I can view and control them from outside my network.

I’m sure I’ll run into problems at some point, but right now everything seems to be working, touch wood.

People might think I’m mad, but it’s great just having one unified network, everything talk to each other, but I can chose which internet connection to use for each devices requirements.

I have to run two separate internet connections, VDSL and 4G, because the VDSL is only 15mbps but has very low latency for gaming and the 4G have high speeds/bandwidth for video streaming 4K and nest cams that constantly upload to the cloud. Such is life, but no more moans “the printers not working!” when people are hopping between networks. First world problems I know.
 
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Autopilot

Distinguished Member
I’ve also started using PiHole, which is running alongside Homebridge. What an absolutely phenomenal thing that is. Nice to have no adverts on any device/app connected to my network (AVForums whitelisted, obvs) but it’s also made a big difference to network performance, it’s amazing how many things, like Amazon echos etc, are constantly accessing the internet, by now they are blocked from unnecessary (to me use of my internet). When gaming online it makes a big difference.
 
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mushii

Distinguished Member
Plus one for Pihole. Also stops Samsung TVs spamming the Rakuten service at you every time you turn on.
 

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