1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

New Projector - Aspect Ratio HELP Please!

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by MarcoBiscotti, Sep 2, 2005.

  1. MarcoBiscotti

    MarcoBiscotti
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I just got a Digital Projection iVision HDX, front DLP projector installed this afternoon. We spent about an hour calibrating and fine tuning. My guy needs to come back in 2 weeks because he was having trouble connecting the HD Leeza and there are still some issues with the resolution and sharpness but I'm happy to finally have my H.T. setup!

    Anyways, this being my first projector, I would like some help figuring out the aspect ratio functions. Please bare with me as I am not as experienced as many of you.

    There seems to be 6 different remote functions for adjusting to the correct a.r.


    - Fill 16:9

    - Letterbox to 16:9

    - Letterbox ST to 16:9

    - Zoom

    - Anamorphic

    - Fill aspect ratio


    I would like to know which functions to apply to which discs as an example...


    I wanted to start with a classic film in a 1:33:1 aspect ratio so I chose "Fill 16:9".

    I had a lot of overscan and had to slightly compress the image and than play around with the horizontal and vertical frame. This is extremely frustrating!!

    I thought this was one of the pros to going with a projector setup...

    WHY am I losing so much picture on the top and bottom of the frame to overscan with older 1:33:1 movies??

    I don't think I experienced this much overscan with my old CRT television!!!

    WHAT am I doing wrong??


    ALSO, can anyone please explain the difference between "Letterbox to 16:9" and "Letterbox ST to 16:9" modes??

    What are the functions of each?

    Please offer examples of movies or disc titles I would select both a.r. modes for...


    I would also REALLY appreciate if somebody could explain what functions to use for films shot in cinemascope, open matte, non-anamorphic titles, etc.

    Can anyone please give me an example of a title or DVD that I might possibly associate with each of the remote aspect ratio functions I listed above?

    I would really appreciate just a rundown of the basics.


    Finally, I had assumed "Anamorphic" would be selected for widescreen anamorphically enhanced discs... but when I tried to audition "Gladiator", the picture simply looked like crap and the framing didn't seem right!

    I had to select "Fill aspect ratio"

    Please do not tell me that I bought a crappy projector which can't accomodate these functions!!!

    This DPI iVision is supposed to be top-of-the-line, I spent nearly 12 grand on this thing... I hope this is simply an issue of my lack of experience and knowledge here.

    PLEASE HELP ME OUT!!!
     
  2. MarcoBiscotti

    MarcoBiscotti
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Please help, this overscan is ridiculous!!

    I don;t know if I'm in the right mode... but I just popped in the Oldboy DVD and selected "Fill 16:9".

    I than paused on a frame and opened up the projector menu.

    I started playing with the horizontal and verticals, scrolling all the way to the left and than right. There's at least a few inches of frame cut of from both sides!!!

    Why the hell is this and how do I get around it???
     
  3. MarcoBiscotti

    MarcoBiscotti
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    If someone could PLEASE comment on the issue of overscan, and also explain the 6 aspect ratio functions that I listed above and give examples of titles that I'd associate with each - I would REALLY, REALLY appreciate it.

    I spent an insane ammount of money on my DLP projector and I don't like this overscan problem one bit!

    I'm trying to bring things up on Google and I see that there are cheaper pj models that actually offer functions which eliminate overscan altogether!

    I am also using a Pioneer Elite 59-AVi DVD player, top-of-the-line... and even with this I see no options to zoom out or anything that would help!!

    I'm really getting agitated... I spent BIG money on my H.T.

    I could've bought a European sports car for the ammount I spent... and this issue of a.r. and overscan is killing me!

    Please, please, please, please, please reply to this thread!!
     
  4. Bugblatter

    Bugblatter
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I'm guessing that you're not getting any replies because the information you're asking for would take a lot of work.

    How are you hooking up your DVD player? If you're using component then my projector, a BenQ 7700, has options in the menu for tuning the picture. This allows you to adjust the pahse, horizontal positioning etc and if you have similar options then they may allow you to regain those lost inches at the side.

    Are you getting the DVD player to de-interlace the picture? That could potentially make a difference to the anamorphic problem you're getting.

    I'm new to this stuff myself so I'm certainly no expert, but in the absence of any other posts hopefully this stuff will have helped :)
     
  5. MarcoBiscotti

    MarcoBiscotti
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks Bugblatter,

    Im not too hot on the tech end, I had my dealer do all the installations. He supplied all my hardware, delivered and installed and calibrated my system. I've got faith in him.

    I just don't understand the aspect ratio issue. And he doesn't seem to well knowledged on this end. I just want to figure out what each aspect ratio function relates to.

    I don't understand what "Letterbox ST to 16:9" means.

    I don't understand what the "Anamorphic" option is for.

    Or why all my widescreen DVD's look better in "Fill aspect ratio" mode?

    I don't understand what "Zoom" is for on my pj since it simply blows up the image ridiculously large. what could that ever possibly be used for? There's not even any otpions to zoom "in" or "out". It's simply a fixed framing on my pj.

    I guess "Fill aspect ratio" means fullscreen discs.

    What about 1:1... what does that mean?

    It just registers as a tiny box frame in the middle of my screen. It's smaller than a TV, why would anyone select this and what could it be for?

    What about the regular "Letterbox to 16:9" mode... what discs would I playback with this selection since all my widescreen DVD's look better in "Fill aspect ratio" mode?

    Finally... what about movies shot in 'scope?

    I can;t think of any off the top of my head, but would I just use the same "Fill aspect ratio" selection for cinemascope features too?

    Shouldn't this all be a little more specific for $12,000??

    Do you guys have more specific functions for adjusting aspect ratios on your pj setup?

    I'd really appreciate any help you can offer...
     
  6. Bugblatter

    Bugblatter
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Well "Letterbox to 16:9" probably means that if you have a letterbox signal, i.e. black bands on the top and bottom of the picture, then it'll stretch the picture so that it goes to the full width of the screen and you lose the bands. This would maintain the original aspect ratio. If you're viewing a 1:2.35 picture, e.g. a movie, rather than a 16:9 WS TV picture, then you'll still have black bands on the top and bottom, however they'll be much smaller than in 4:3 mode.

    "Letterbox ST to 16:9" would probably stretch the picture vertically to get rid of the black bands with a 1:2.35 picture. You use the whole of your screen but the image is distorted, I don't like this mode personally.

    1:1 means that the pj is displaying the picture at the true size of the source. If you're inputting a component signal then it'll be small, as you only get a small number of lines in the signal. Changing the aspect ratio tells the pj to up-sample the picture, i.e. make it bigger. If however you were outputting a signal from a PC at the resolution of the pj then 1:1 would be ideal as the picture would fill the screen and each pixel in the source would correspond to one pixel on the screen. This mode would also be useful if you're getting your DVD player to up-sample the picture to 720 or whatever.

    I think Anamorphic is for when you have a true WS source, i.e. no black bands on the top and bottom.

    In the end you should use the mode that looks best to you for the source you're viewing.

    By the way doesn't the manual cover what these different modes are for?
     
  7. LV426

    LV426
    Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    12,815
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Somewhere in South Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +5,025
    I can't add much in the way of telling what the terms you quote mean. Unfortunately, manufacturers all use their own phrases. However, here is what you should expect.

    First up, I assume the projector is a native 16x9 device, and is properly aimed at, and zoomed into, the screen you have. In other words so that the light throw of the projector more or less exactly fills the screen.

    Second up, ensure your DVD player is set to output 16x9 (or widescreen or anamorphic) where such a signal is present on the disc.

    Once done, then what you should find is that any disc you watch may be one of:

    a) 4x3 video carrying 4x3 material. This would be the case with an old TV show, for example, and some classic movies. The correct way to watch these is with black bars to the left and right of your screen.

    b) 4x3 video carrying 16x9 or wider material. This would be the case for some early widescreen DVDs. Thankfully this practice is all but discontinued on new releases. Examples include "The Abyss" and "Titanic". On such discs, there are black bars above and below the image encoded into the video signal. The correct way to watch these is zoomed in, so that the film fills the width of the screen, and part (or sometimes all) of the black bars are cropped off by your projector.

    c) 16x9 video carrying 16x9 or wider material. Most modern movie releases and TV shows. Watch these with your projector in 16x9 (wide, anamorphic) mode. There may still be black bars above and below depending on how "wide" the original film was.

    Why the black bars? Bear in mind that films are made for the cinema. Where they have really wide wide screens. Wider than your fixed shape projector and screen. The only way to get all of a really wide widescreen film onto a 16x9 screen is to accompany it with black above and below. Otherwise it won't fit.

    Finally, overscan (of up to about 5% of the image width or height) is part of the TV system specification, always has been, and you shouldn't be concerned by it.

    To put it another way..........assuming your equipment is set correctly (in particular, your DVD player is set to 16x9 or "wide" or whatever, in the TV type/shape setting)......

    If

    - objects are the right shape (i.e. circles are round, people are people-shaped, etc) AND
    - you have black bars on no, or 2 sides of your image (but never all 4 sides)
    - you aren't missing more than about 5% of the active image in any direction

    then everything is probably as it should be.

    OK?
     
  8. MarcoBiscotti

    MarcoBiscotti
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thank you SO much!!

    I've been playing around with this all night and I think I've finally got it all worked out!

    :thumbsup:
     
  9. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
    Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    8,498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +827
    Is the scaler attached and are you using AR control on the scaler not the projector???

    Projector stays in 1:1 mode so as not to overscan anything the scaler is sending it since the scaler is always going to be producing the exact 1280x720 resolution the projector needs. On initial setup the dealer should bring up a test pattern from the scaler, then use the projector's position and size controls to ensure perfect 1:1 with no overscanning.

    Then on the scaler the dealer should carry out specific overscan adjustments on a per aspect-ratio, per-input basis. This means you can choose to view the whole signal or apply a fixed amount of overscan differently for each input, and then differently for each aspect ratio that input could be sending (recommended to use a few % overscan to clear edge-noise etc). Takes a while to setup and default settings do usually suffice to a degree.

    In general use you would then use the AR controls on the scaler to select the best ratio for whatever it is you are watching at the time. The scaler then applies the overscan, stretching, cropping or whatever, but is always outputting a 1280x720 signal which the projector does not want to interfere with (projector stays in 1:1 mode to allow this).

    It may be that the incomplete scaler setup has caused a bit of overscan happening at the scaler or that the dealer hasn't finished the adjustment. This would be further perpetuated by you using the projector's aspect ratio control which would then overscan an already overscanned image. Or if the scaler is not inline yet all this will be irrelevant in a fortnight when it is installed properley!!!

    However it is setup though, you will always have to expect black bars or some cropping on certain signals to retain the correct aspect (i.e. to not have short and fat or tall and thin people, or to lose info!). Otherwise you are either disproportionately stretching the image, or you are cropping information from it.

    http://www.rexer.com/cine/oar.htm

    HTH
     

Share This Page

Loading...