New Plasma to Pair With Crystalio 2

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by TheDoctor, Jan 22, 2008.

  1. TheDoctor

    TheDoctor
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    Hello All

    I looking for a new plasma to pair with my Crystalio 2. Currently at the top of my list is the new 1080p (24Hz) LX Pioneer Range, which also have a "dot to dot" mode (1:1 pixel mapping through HDMI).

    Does anyone have any other thoughts?
     
  2. choddo2006

    choddo2006
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    Sounds like a fine plan to me. One of the last Fuji Aviamos perhaps?
     
  3. TheDoctor

    TheDoctor
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    It would probably be impossible to get hold of an Aviamo, especially the 50" panel.

    It seems like the LX Pioneers are the way to go.
     
  4. dave_st185

    dave_st185
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    A Panasonic PF series panel perhaps?

    Or if you can still find one you wouldn't be going far wrong with a 58series Fujitsu panel inspite of it being 768p
     
  5. NonPayingMember

    NonPayingMember
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    Panasonic PF for me. 1:1 very easily done. Personal preference though, many prefer the look of the Pioneers (certainly aesthetically) but I still think the Panny the more cinematic experience.
     
  6. jolly

    jolly
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    Just got my panny 50pf10, great screen

    Can’t wait till I get the Radiance

    Steve
     
  7. TheDoctor

    TheDoctor
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    I have to have a panel that is 1080p, accepts 24Hz, and produces the best blacks possible :)
     
  8. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  9. TheDoctor

    TheDoctor
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    It looks like I'll have to investigate the 50PF10 then :)
     
  10. jolly

    jolly
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    Picture was great out off the box for me, can’t wait for Gordon to weave his magic

    Steve

    :smashin:
     
  11. TheDoctor

    TheDoctor
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    Liam/Gordon

    What are the black levels like when comparing the LX Pioneers to the PF Pannys. I know the contrast ratios are 20000:1 vs 5000:1 - but what does this mean in terms of "real visual value".

    Being an owner of a Pio 505XDE, you may understand why I'm looking for that "blacker" experience.

    Thanks
     
  12. jolly

    jolly
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    I had a 506FDE before a got the Panny and are definitely not disappointed with the blacks

    As I said above it's a great pic out of the box and iam not using a VP at the moment


    Steve
     
  13. -Hitman-

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    I'm looking into doing similar to you and using either a radiance from Gordon or a VP50pro but my two choices of display i've been researching all over at the moment are the 65PF10 and LX608, i'm also interested in the new G9's from Pioneer.

    I wouldn't go off contrast ratio's as they are never correct and highly exaggerated.

    From what i've read and found out from respected members of forums, Panasonic have not really updated their displays and have been using mostly the same technology from G8 with small changes to add more features but are still stuck with limited calibration adjustments (A VP can be used to resolve this but will i don't think it can achieve the reference that Pioneers can get), Pioneer however seem to have been making big changes with each gen release and have now produced the Kuro's with unbeatable black levels, Full reference calibration capabilities and excellent 24hz support.

    The Pioneers are also ahead with light output and i think they are already around 5 lumen tech now and moving up to around 10 this year/next, Panasonics will be around 3-5 this year, I think it will be quite a while before Panasonic catches up with the Kuro blacks.

    However the Pansonics do produce excellent picture quality, especially coupled with a VP in the chain and are far more robust than any Pioneer IMHO, so this is an extremely difficult choice and i may wait for the Pioneer G9 before making my final decision and welcome any correction on what i have said here.

    HTH.
     
  14. NonPayingMember

    NonPayingMember
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    Easy question first - the Radiance is a VP50Pro slayer.

    Panny vs Pio you need to get a demo. The 60" Pioneer has higher black levels than the 50"... I would be weary of comparing numbers and falling back into spec sheet buying. Both have proper blacks, but I still personally prefer the Panasonic image. Feels like there is more contrast on screen, the Pioneer is punchier almost which suits a lot of people's preferences. Just not mine LOL! As a rule of thumb I tend to use Pioneers where there is a projector for movies, in brighter rooms (where the better anti-reflective layer is an advantage), and where the client just wants a nice gloss black shiny TV! Panasonics are not as bright and do have a more reflective glass, but again they suit my tastes as a main movie watching display.

    I've done Radiances on 50PF10 and LX508D now and with the Radiance having full CMS, parametric greyscale, and more calibration tools to come, the difference is purely the plasma panel's reproduction of the image on 1:1 and how it looks on your wall aesthetically. Nobody would ever be unhappy with either, but spoiled as I am with getting to see these things every day I know for my room and tastes it would be Panasonic. But for example my old man (who uses Lumagen HDQ) he prefers the Pioneer.
     
  15. -Hitman-

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    Thanks Liam, appreciated!

    Agree with the radiance, the more i see of user info the more i'm leaning, your response the more so but i need help with the audio side in to a HDA amp via HDMI 1.3, i know Radiance is soon an upgrade to this and the pro version is on the horizon, so looks very good.

    I want to badly see a Pf10 but no one in the NW supplies this panel, may have to travel for this.

    I'm in Panasonics preference too having owned a Pioneer then a PHD8 and found the Panasonic to be without question an excellent display, now things have moved on in the industry it makes it all the more hard a descision.

    As you say though theres nothing better than to see them in action (lucky you) and this has to be the next and final step in deciding, also the most important!

    Thank you.:)
     
  16. NonPayingMember

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    The Radiance currently has no problems routing HD Audio from various HD sources to HD decoding amps and processors. There isn't anything specifically HDMI 1.3 that needs this. It is also able to embed DD/DTS onto HDMI from coax/opt and vice-versa. Deepcolor and av sync etc will come with 1.3, but it won't give you anything new in a LX508 or 50PF10 + Radiance setup.

    I've got at home DD/DTS coming from EP35, PS3 onto HDMI and out via coax to my Meridian processor. I have installed EP35 and PS3 doing HD audio into a Radiance and out to a 50PF10 on out 1 @ 1080p while out 2 runs audio to an Onkyo 875 (as 1080i blank video).
     
  17. alex_d

    alex_d
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    To add some 'amateur' opinion to this, which probably won't help, but I'll say it anyway!.....

    I had a Pio 505XDE and wanting the 'best' upgraded to a Pio LX508. I also run this through a Crystalio II 3800 Pro. A friend of mine bought the Panasonic 50' 1080P screen at exactly the same time.

    Take the C2 out of the equation and being brutally honest I don't think my Pio LX508 is 'much/any' better than his Panasonic screen. No we haven't run them side by side, but when watching content on his Pansonic screen I certainly don't sit there thinking this would look much better on my Pionner screen! :)

    Think this supports Gordon's comments that it has nothing to do with spec sheets and all to do with personal preference.

    Conclusion - see the screens for yourself and decide if the Pioneer screen is worth £1k+ over the Panasonic, or would you rather spend the extra money on some addition AV toys :)
    Cheers
    Alex
     
  18. andrewfee

    andrewfee
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    I must say I'm surprised at all the Panasonic recommendations. From my experience with them, Panasonic panels have all suffered from noticeably more posterisation than the latest Pioneers (where they're getting close to eliminating it) have dithering in dark scenes, poorer black levels, and the black level itself fluctuates. (eg if you have dark image onscreen, they will suddenly drop after a few frames) Now, these are the consumer panels I've had experience with, do the commercial ones eliminate these problems?

    That's not to say that the Pioneers are without fault though - they tend to have a "noisier" image overall, especially large areas of bright colour. (PC mode seems to reduce this significantly, but only works at 60Hz)

    The Pioneers have better colour reproduction and image processing, but a Radiance should hopefully be able to get a Panasonic panel on target for colour anyway, and obviously it would be doing all the processing, so any advantages the Pioneer has there are moot.


    Personally, I find darker blacks and having a stable black level some of the most important things to look for in a panel, but then those are probably only going to be noticed if you're watching in a dark room so it may not be important to you.
     
  19. Rob

    Rob
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    Alex,

    How do you find the Pioneers internal processing compared to the CII?

    Many (well a few) have said that the LX processing has meant that an external VP is no longer necessary. As with anything of course its subjective and the flexability that a good processor gives you is wothwhile for many, but purely on image I'd be interested in your opinion.

    Rob.
     
  20. alex_d

    alex_d
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    Rob,

    I find that the CII does add a noticeable improvement in the pic quality over the in-built capabilities of the Pio LX508. It is of course dependent on the source material, but my purely personal opinion is that the CII helps with poorer quality source material and this is where it's capabilities really shine beyond any internal processing of the screen. When the source material is a high quality and/or HD source then I'd probably be quite happy with the pic quality of the screen alone.....

    As you say, it's all purely personal and subjective but that's my conclusion after having owned the combo for a couple of months.

    Alex
     
  21. -Hitman-

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    On my 50PHD8 that i had, i only noticed posterisation on certain video on Sky and it was also evident on my other 32" CRT, others have mentioned Sky and this problem so deemed to be the source video at fault, anything other than Sky never noticed it myself.

    Dithering was noticable but only when you were about 2ft from the screen, the fluctuation in brightness, i never noticed it during normal veiwing, however i did notice that when calibrating, the levels would rise and fall when adjusting brightness, the 42" version was reported to fluctuate during normal veiwing and an SM fix was found to help, wheter this is still the same 2 gens on i don't know yet.

    I'm staying with Panasonic after hefy research on Panny/Pioneer, Pioneer do have better blacks obviously but the Panasonic is not miles away and with the perception of black anyway, you'd only see the difference if both offerings were in the same room, IMO.

    Panasonics are also perfect mates for a VP user, blacks aren't everything, PQ is and a Panny + VP gives you the best available, many pro installers/calibraters who work with both choose Panny, 2 in this very thread, you do have to think why!

    Panasonics are far more robust/bulletproof and i've never had any problems with them, over on AVS the problems with Pio's filter technology using laminated plastic on glass (Panny use glass), which seem to be inherent since the gen 5 (i had one with the problems mentioned) it's too worrying to consider and after the support i encountered with Pio, very doubious to buy any of their products again, IMHO.
     
  22. TheDoctor

    TheDoctor
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    I managed to get a demo of a 50PF10 at AV-Sales (thanks Richard :thumbsup:) and I was very impressed with the panel. My mind is definitely made up now, and that was without a VP in the demo set-up.

    The only thing left to decide on is a HD-audio capable AVR. From what I understand the set-up will be as follows:

    HD Video/Audio source ----> AVR ----> CII -----> 50PF10


    Therefore I need an AVR that will passthrough a 1080/24p signal. The room is quite small and I'm not going to be blasting the audio out (with a 6 month old in the house - it's amazing how your ears adjust to listening at lower volumes :) ). I don't need anything too flash but what are the AVR options? Would an Onkyo 605 do the job?

    Thanks
     

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