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New Panny Owner Seeks Wisdom

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by reckless, Feb 7, 2004.

  1. reckless

    reckless
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    I've just had a panny PW6 delivered and I've set it up but I have a couple of issues that I'd appreciate some guidance/info about.

    Firstly, to give you a brief overview of the setup, I'm using the separate tuner box (I know they aren't liked but I needed one). My sky box and dvd are attached via scart sending rgb signals to av1 and 4 and my ps2 is outputing s-vid to av2.

    My first query is that I've seen the p6 running in a few places, all with grotty feeds but never noticed what I can only call a slight shimmering on solid blocks of colour. It looks for all the world like the flicker you get on 50hz sets but not as noticeable. I noticed it most on a clear white screen although it was apparent on the green baize of the snooker earlier on today. It appears on the analogue signals, the sky rgb to a lesser extent but not noticeable on dvd (at least if it does, it's so slight that I can't seen it). The background on last night's They Think It's All Over seemed to shimmer throughout the program although the people seemed ok

    I've tried NTSC discs as well as PAL with DVD and both appear ok. I'm a little concerned in case I'm noticing flicker which I thought the quasi pal was supposed to fix in these models (and which I hadn't noticed in displays in shops)

    The second query is that again, I'd not seen this in shops but now I've had time to see the screen in more detail, blocks of colour, DVD and SKY with gradation are being shown as solid blocks of colour. For example, on the Titanic DVD there is a scene where the mini subs are shown going down to the wreck and all you see is the top of the subs with the light on, the sea around changes from the white of the light to the deep blue of the sea. This is being shown almost as 5 colour circles around the sub. Is this simply that the panel can't handle any sort of gradation? I'd have expected more than about 6 different shades of colour even though I know there's a limited colour palette on screens. Is this a feature of the panny screens or would I get this on all screens (pioneer etc).

    If these are common to all screens and it's just that I can notice them more now my screen was on all evening and I had more time to notice then I'm ok. However, if these quirks aren't on the pioneer then I can always get it changed.

    I'd appreciate comments from anyone. Thanks!
     
  2. JamesTapp

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    What you are seeing are common to all plasma screens.

    Turning down the brightness and contrast from the factory settings is your first step. They are set way too high and highlight the problems.

    ISF Calibration can help you get the best out of the screen but you will still see this to some degree. It is a limitation of all plasmas - and Pannys are at the better end of the spectrum in terms of picture quality.

    Hope that helps.

    James
     
  3. reckless

    reckless
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    Thanks for the info James. I was just a little uncertain about whether the shimmering I see was a result of the quasi pal the panny uses and whether I would see the same thing on the Pioneer.

    Also, as they advertise the pioneer as capable of displaying loads of colours and I didn't know if it displayed more than the panny and would so minimise the effect of the lack of gradation. I seem to remember a post here a while back saying that in order to use quasi pal the panny reduces the amount of colours it displays and I didn't know if that was true and, if so, if that was what I was seeing.

    Thing is, no matter how many times I've seen the displays in shops, there's a world of difference once you get to try all the various signals (good and bad quality) and dvds to the set.
     
  4. joys_R_us

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    1. Panasonic still has some flicker, less than 5th generation but still...

    2. Pioneer has absolutely NO flicker, I can assure you...

    3. Banding is a problem in plasmas, some have more some less. My Pio is very good, in fact much better than other plasmas I have seen. But I never noticed excessive banding in Panasonic. You have to be careful, banding is sometimes a source issue !
     
  5. reckless

    reckless
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    Thanks for the response. I think from your comments that I am seeing flicker. As I said earlier, I thought quasi pal had eradicated that and that only the 5 series suffered from it. I can't seem to see it that much when the room is bright and this is probably why I've not noticed it in shops which are invariably brightly lit. I certainly noticed it last night with most of the lights off in the room.

    As regards the banding I appreciate that all plasmas suffer from this, it's just the first time I've noticed it that badly. It was from an RGB PAL dvd connected through a reasonable scart (I've got a few cheapies and a few reasonable ones). Again, I noticed it last night watching the credit into to "Signs" on Sky movies.

    I'm going to go and have another look at a few screens tomorrow to see if I can see what I think is flicker on the other screens. If not, I think that I might have to exchange the panny for the pioneer.

    Also, as a slight aside: my screen makes a high pitched noise when displaying lots of white on screen: is this normal?
     
  6. JamesTapp

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    yes plasmas make a noise when showing bright images.

    Have you turned down the brightness, contrast and sharpness? Sharpness should be around -6. Brightness and Contrast need to be well down to get to a near calibrated display.

    Factory settings are always way to high.

    James
     
  7. Dean

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    I have found that the 'cinema' preset picture setting is good, except as others point out reduce the brightness slightly. Contrast should be approx 60% and brightness at 40%.:

    Contrast: +10
    Brightness: -5
    Sharpness: +2
     
  8. reckless

    reckless
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    Thanks for the input. I'd reduced contrast and brightness etc since switching on as I'd read about these points in earlier posts. I don't know what numbers they're set to as (probably because I'm using the tuner) it only has a sliding bar, there are no numbers on there. Both contrast and brightness are set at about a third of the way up (perhaps a little less).

    I seem to notice the flicker primarily when the screen is displaying a relatively stable image where nothing much is moving.

    Is it only the pannys that feature this quasi pal? I saw a JVC earlier today (don't know the model or specs but it had a black surround and looked like the pioneer). Only had time for a quick look but couldn't seem to see the problem I have with the panny.

    I honestly prefer the picture on the panny to the pioneer but if that doesn't flicker then I'm probably going to have to arrange a swap as I'd find it easier to live with less than perfect blacks than with this shimmer or flicker etc.

    Cheers though for all your comments. Any thoughts gratefully received!
     
  9. Dean

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    Never noticed any flicker on my panasonic, what cables are you using? I am using slot 1 with a scart terminal board which is used with a quintro scart switching box all with IXOS XHT601 scart leads. Maybe the unit is defective :confused:
     
  10. reckless

    reckless
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    This is going to sound really stupid but I've been watching it all evening and it seems as though the shimmer is reducing (either that or I'm getting used to it) to a point where I haven't seen it this evening yet this afternoon it was quite noticeable when watching the pink panther film.

    I'm wondering if what I'm seeing is similar to what I've seen on other posts when people refer to plasmas taking time for the image to optimise or bed in.

    I'm just watching the snooker with the solid green table that yesterday was shimmering and yet tonight it appears fine.

    I'm using sky+ through a scart lead whose name escapes me as I bought it a few years ago. It's fully shielded, gold connectors etc and heavy duty metal scart plugs. It cost me about £30 about 4 or 5 years ago. It was also happening on analogue signals.

    I'm going to see what it's like for a few days. Cheers for the help.
     
  11. David PluggedIn

    David PluggedIn
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    If you find that you cannot live with the flicker then an external scaler will help.
    Your choices are either a standalone unit, or a PC based solution depending on whether you want ultimate ease of use versus infinite adjustability!

    We did a PC solution for a customer who was using Sky via composite in to a Toshiba 42" plasma, and the difference (as you would expect!) between Sky composite and Sky RGB in to his PC was night and day. The flicker via composite was very evident, particularly when you viewed the screen in your peripheral vision (i.e looking away from the set, but with the screen visible in the corner of your eye)

    Of course when driven from his PC at native resolution the picture was noise free and much more stable.

    I personally find 'native' Sky RGB output direct in to some TVs can look very flickery, so realistically you are going to have to do some processing to solve this.

    good luck
     
  12. reckless

    reckless
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    Thanks for all the responses: just thought I'd give you a brief update.

    I found a disc that was outputing a predominantly white background picture that really showed up the issue and then took it around a few outlets with dvd connected to various plasmas to try and see if they all suffered from this. I tried Philips, JVC, Sony, Pioneer, Fujitsu etc.

    It was difficult to get a fair comparison as most were using component out and one (the pioneer, obviously) HDMI. Have to say though that, with the greatest respect to those who own a Pioneer, and despite what I said in an earlier post, I just can't get on with the screen and even if this flicker is an issue with the panny, having seen the pio again I couldn't exchange because it just doesn't look black to me.

    I couldn't duplicate the flicker on any of the screens although no shop had the 6 series and tuner set up for dvd so I couldn't do an exact comparison. I did try the disc on the pa20 and have to say that although I saw some flicker, it was nowhere near what I have seen on my screen.

    I've changed all the leads over, even the one from tuner to screen. Lowering the contrast helps but I can still see it on white backgrounds. I have to say, I don't seem to notice it now on most images, only when the screen is predominantly white. Examples of which are the adverts for Jacobs Creek wine shown before and after Friends and the final few seconds of the Vision Express advert where their name appears on a white background. I did get a second opinion from friend of mine who walked in, saw the image and immediately said it's flickering.

    I've notified JL and I'm in the midst of arranging for a panny engineer to investigate further to see if there is a fault or not. I can't check to see if component would help as I don't have anything that outputs component.

    Again, thanks to you all for your input, it's much appreciated. I'll let you know how I get on.
     

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