New Onkyos now the dust is settling

simonoaks

Active Member
For the last few months, there has been lots of talk and excitement around what was the impending release of the new range.

People (including myself) were talking about them all the time as part of a new setup, months before their release/test/review and demo.

Have read through the owner's threads, it seem there is actually quite a few little issues starting to arise with them.

My question is; do you think they have lived up to all the pre-release hype and excitement? I for one was going to get an 875 but now feel it is best to have another look around.

Of course it does depend on use and budget (I am not interested in video processing as screen will do better job). Just wondered what owners and (again me) fence sitters thought about the new range.
 

james.miller

Well-known Member
love my 805. heat doesant bother me. popping is annoying sometimes but it doesnt happen too often. the osd not working at 1080p is minor - i dont use it anyway. other issues? nope cant think of any
 

tolmie

Active Member
Had my 605 for about 1 month now, love it.
 

bsimmer3000

Active Member
Purchased my 805 a week ago, but still aint used it yet. after searching for review after review i decided to go for this amp. ok has a few issues with ps3 and gets a little hot but them things i can easy live with. when a range of amps are scoreing 5 stars in most reviews i def aint gonna miss out on that. also theres nothing out there that can compette with whats on this amp for it's price. it's one heavy beast as well i just can wait to use it. should be picking up my b&w xt set in next couple of weeks so im super excited.
 

UrbanT

Distinguished Member
Been using my 875 for a few weeks and its been excellent.

You should remember that people who are happy don't post that often, its only normally when people have problems or questions :)
 

karlmc

Novice Member
Have had my 875 now for nearly a week now and have no regrets (Upgraded from a Denon 3802). Went for the 875 so I could upscale my Denon DVD2900, which I couldn't bear to part with, and it does a fabulous job.

Altogether extremely happy.
 

Sheks

Novice Member
Have had my 875 now for nearly a week now and have no regrets (Upgraded from a Denon 3802). Went for the 875 so I could upscale my Denon DVD2900, which I couldn't bear to part with, and it does a fabulous job.

Altogether extremely happy.

I am thinking of upgrading my Denon 3802 for the 875, mainly for upscaling and simplyfying the connections etc, have you noticed much improvement in audio quality over the 3802?

Sheks
 

Hawklord

Well-known Member
I am thinking of upgrading my Denon 3802 for the 875, mainly for upscaling and simplyfying the connections etc, have you noticed much improvement in audio quality over the 3802?

Sheks


I've upgraded from an avr3802 to an Onkyo 805 and it's a marked improvement imo. It's easy to set up, highly tweakable and sounds the business I'm Very happy with my purchase:D
 

Cyprio

Well-known Member
For the last few months, there has been lots of talk and excitement around what was the impending release of the new range.

People (including myself) were talking about them all the time as part of a new setup, months before their release/test/review and demo.

Have read through the owner's threads, it seem there is actually quite a few little issues starting to arise with them.

My question is; do you think they have lived up to all the pre-release hype and excitement? I for one was going to get an 875 but now feel it is best to have another look around.

Of course it does depend on use and budget (I am not interested in video processing as screen will do better job). Just wondered what owners and (again me) fence sitters thought about the new range.
#

Personally i can't think of anything else out there at the moment that can compare with the Onkyo's.
They have been getting excellent reviews throughout most of the new range, and also beating the likes of Arcam and Pioneer.
Perhaps the new Denon's will give them some competition, but i doubt whether they will be as competitively priced as the Onkyo's.
 

karlmc

Novice Member
I am thinking of upgrading my Denon 3802 for the 875, mainly for upscaling and simplyfying the connections etc, have you noticed much improvement in audio quality over the 3802?

Sheks

Compared to the 3802 there is a huge difference. I can now hear a lot more out of the surrounds and multichannel music (SACD & DVD-A) there seems to be a lot more clarity and power. Afraid I can't tell you about stereo performance as I use a Kandy III L amp as my front L + R channels so my stereo souces are all plumbed in to this. I'm pretty sure you won't be disapointed going from the 3802.
 

sibeer

Well-known Member
Been using my 875 for a few weeks and its been excellent.

You should remember that people who are happy don't post that often, its only normally when people have problems or questions :)

Has that replaced your Lexicon power amp and Tag processor combo :eek:

If it truely compares favourably with that then you are getting some real value for £1000.
 

UrbanT

Distinguished Member
Has that replaced your Lexicon power amp and Tag processor combo :eek:

If it truely compares favourably with that then you are getting some real value for £1000.

The Tag has gone, but I've kept the Lexicon power amp for no other reason than I didn't see any point in selling it, so I have power amped the Onkyo. I would add that I have tried it without, and could happily live without the power amp. I do think the 875 is a bargain for £1000. :thumbsup:
 

ajgooner23

Active Member
I'm looking to up grade from a carver 875, which has served me well for 9 years. I will be going to Superfi (Camden) tomorrow to demo the 705 with Kef 3005 (which I just had delivered). My question is how hot do these amps get and should I go for the Sony 52000e?:)
 
N

Nuttyal

Guest
I was looking at purchasing the Onkyo 605 as a replacement for my Denon 1804.
Went along to my local Audio dealer armed with my Dire Straits (Sultans of Swing) and Pirates of the Caribbean (Curse of Black Pearl) for a demo.
They set everything up as near as they could to my home system with the 605.
When playing the DVD and CD (favourite tracks), I noticed that the 605 output was very flat and lacked depth. I was very disappointed!
The dealer asked if I wanted to compare with a Denon 2307 and he duly set everything up with 2307 instead of 605.
The difference was immediate...... the Denon was far superior than the Onkyo, it even picked out parts of the DVD audio that was missed by the 605. My Dire Straits track was completely different in sound quality, more vibrant and better tonal depth.
Needless to say I bought the Denon for an extra cost of £50 and very pleased I am too!
I was quite willing to purchase the 605 from the dealer if I was unable to get a demo that day, but fortunately the demo completely changed my mind!
I was nearly duped by all the reviews in the mags and forums.
A personal visit to a dealer for a demo is always the best poicy, especially when you will be forking out a lot of money!
And of course it was my ears that chose what I thought was the best amp; yours may pick something completely different!
:thumbsup:
 

javelin_

Active Member
I was looking at purchasing the Onkyo 605 as a replacement for my Denon 1804.
Went along to my local Audio dealer armed with my Dire Straits (Sultans of Swing) and Pirates of the Caribbean (Curse of Black Pearl) for a demo.
They set everything up as near as they could to my home system with the 605.
When playing the DVD and CD (favourite tracks), I noticed that the 605 output was very flat and lacked depth. I was very disappointed!
The dealer asked if I wanted to compare with a Denon 2307 and he duly set everything up with 2307 instead of 605.
The difference was immediate...... the Denon was far superior than the Onkyo, it even picked out parts of the DVD audio that was missed by the 605. My Dire Straits track was completely different in sound quality, more vibrant and better tonal depth.
Needless to say I bought the Denon for an extra cost of £50 and very pleased I am too!
I was quite willing to purchase the 605 from the dealer if I was unable to get a demo that day, but fortunately the demo completely changed my mind!
I was nearly duped by all the reviews in the mags and forums.
A personal visit to a dealer for a demo is always the best poicy, especially when you will be forking out a lot of money!
And of course it was my ears that chose what I thought was the best amp; yours may pick something completely different!
:thumbsup:

Your thread about missing depth at TX-SR605 is very interesting. Several years ago when I purchased my last Onkyo I tryed TX-SV454 (current series 500) and TX-DS555 (current series 600), but the cheaper model TX-SV454 (which I purchased) sounded much better then higher priced TX-DS555 that was lacking depth and sounded rather stiffed, while the selected model had a nice depth and played more natural. It would be interesting if you are in a chance to compare TX-SR505E or HT-R508 with TX-SR605 to see if the situation with lacking depth on higher end models is the same today. My local distributor is not willing to try models. I have a chance to by TX-SR803, for the same price as TX-SR605, so if you have any experience with sound difference on series 800 it could be interesting advice. It seems like HT-R508 in Onkyo range might be the best choice!:))
 

JeffR714

Standard Member
I purchesed my 605 two months ago and I love it! In another month or two we will be able to finally experience Dolby TrueHD as well as DTS HD MA So I'm excited! I myself have to go with the 3rd Gen Toshiba A-35 (Oct 1) No I couldn't wait to get the TX-SR605 Great machine.....Jeff

Toshiba HDDVD HD-XA1
Samsung BD-P1000 Blu Ray
PS3
Onkyo TX-SR605
Sony Vaio VGC-RC310G Blu Ray
JBLSCS500.5 5.1
2 Polk Audio M-20
 

jolly

Well-known Member
The Tag has gone, but I've kept the Lexicon power amp for no other reason than I didn't see any point in selling it, so I have power amped the Onkyo. I would add that I have tried it without, and could happily live without the power amp. I do think the 875 is a bargain for £1000. :thumbsup:

urban t
whats the video like compared to using a lumagen hdq

regards
steve
 

Hollingsabre

Standard Member
The 505E or the 605 which is best for me?

I have a 1080p TV and a 360, im looking to get a 1080p DVD player or a pS3 in the future after i've saved my pennies again, but i'm not sure which av unit i should go for?

I'm not desparate for the 1080p upscalling capabilities of the 605 because pretty much everything going into it will be 1080i/p. So what benefits am i going to experiance paying that £150 extra for the 605.

I'm planning on getting some KEF KHT1005s, that come with the deal, i hear these are pretty good. Any ideas, i'm not really wanting to pay the extra 150, but if people relly recommend the 605 for extra benefits than i'll have to prise my wallet open even further!

Cheers for the help!
 

Hollingsabre

Standard Member
The 605 can amplify audio over hdmi, whilst the 505 can't. That is what tore it for me...
So for example, any HD equipment with HDMI that send digital audio like DTS over the cable the 605 receives the DTS through the HDMI rather than having to put a optical cable extra in the back? but the 505 does not?

But i still could run a digital audio cable from a HD device to the 505 and still get the same effect as a 605, but using more connections and cables?
 

Crustyloafer

Distinguished Member
I purchesed my 605 two months ago and I love it! In another month or two we will be able to finally experience Dolby TrueHD as well as DTS HD MA

Err, no you won't, at least not using the processing onboard the AV receiver you won't. To quote from a well written and informative article:

"New HD lossless audio formats: In addition to HDMI's current ability to support high-bandwidth uncompressed digital audio and all currently-available compressed formats (such as Dolby Digital and DTS), HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio.

Perhaps the single most confusing aspect of HDMI 1.3 is its support for high-resolution audio formats such as Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD, all of which require more bandwidth (and copy protection) than can be transmitted over the old digital coaxial or Toslink optical audio connections that were sufficient for Standard-Def DVD. If using one of those cable types, the HD DVD or Blu-ray player will downconvert the DD+, TrueHD, or DTS-HD signal to standard Dolby Digital or DTS quality. In order to benefit from the full high-resolution quality of these formats, the player must be connected by either HDMI or multi-channel analog. For the purposes of this article, we're obviously going to focus on the HDMI transmission method.

As I sat down to write out a detailed explanation of how the audio formats are handled on both Blu-ray and HD DVD, I realized that I would probably never be able to summarize the situation nearly as concisely or eloquently as this description from AVSForum member Sanjay Durani, which is reprinted here with permission:

First let's clarify some nomenclature. Dolby and DTS have both introduced new audio codecs. The lossy ones are DD+ (Dolby Digital Plus) and DTS-HD (High Definition). The lossless codecs are Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA (Master Audio).

Think of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA as zipping a computer file to save space. None of the data is discarded, just packed more efficiently to take up less storage space. When you unzip the file, 100% of the data is still there, and you get a bit-for-bit copy of the original.

If you had a zipped document that you wanted to send me on disc, you would have two choices. You could unzip it on your computer before putting it on the disc. Or you could send it to me as a zipped file (would take up less space on the disc) and I could unzip it on my computer. Either way, I end up with the exact same document, down to the last letter.

Likewise, decoding (unpacking) a soundtrack in the player or in the receiver will yield the exact same results. It's not like high end receivers have a special secret version of TrueHD decoding reserved for them that cheap players aren't allowed to have. It's just format decoding. If certain audio data is flagged for the left front channel, then decoding in the worlds most expensive receiver won't place that data somehow "more" into the left front channel than decoding in the world's cheapest player.

Going back to the zipped document analogy. If you wanted to change anything in the document, from simple correction of spelling mistakes to complex re-formatting for a better look, you would first need to unzip that document. You wouldn't be able to manipulate it while it was still zipped.

Similarly, everything a receiver does to the soundtrack, up to and including D/A conversion, requires the soundtrack to be in uncompressed PCM form. In fact, when you send your receiver a DD or DTS bitstream, the first thing it does is decompress the soundtrack to linear PCM. Only then can it apply things like bass management, time alignment, etc.

Soundtracks on HD DVD (and eventually on Blu-ray, when it goes interactive) operate very differently than they do on DVD. With current DVDs, you need entirely separate soundtracks for things like foreign languages and filmmaker's commentary. This is actually a pretty wasteful approach.

With HD DVD, soundtracks can be authored in the 'Advanced' mode, which allows multiple content streams to be live-mixed (mixed in real time). You don't need another soundtrack for foreign languages. Just swap out the English centre channel stream with one of the foreign centre channel streams. You don't need another soundtrack for commentary. Just reduce the level of the main soundtrack and mix in the commentary stream. Same with button sounds and other interactive features, like picture-in-picture.

Just like editing the document requires unzipping the file first, doing any of this live-mixing to the soundtrack requires decoding it to linear PCM first. This is why it has to be done in the player. They're not going to transmit every option to your receiver, just one soundtrack. You choose what you want to hear, it is mixed in the player (i.e. the soundtrack you want to hear is literally built in real time inside the player) and transmitted as a final mix to your receiver.

Current HDMI allows 8 channels of 96/24 PCM to be transmitted (more than enough resolution for any soundtrack), but not the new codecs in their native form. When HDMI 1.3 arrives, it will allow the new codecs mentioned above to be transmitted in their native bitstream, but only if they were authored in 'Basic' mode (no interactivity). If the soundtrack was authored in Advanced mode, then it cannot be transmitted in undecoded form; decoding in the player is mandatory because of live mixing.

So far, all HD DVD soundtracks have been authored in Advanced mode. Which means nothing will change when new receivers arrive on the market. Despite having HDMI 1.3 transmission and decoders built into the receiver, decoding will still have to take place in the player.

Currently, Blu-ray discs are authored in Basic mode, since they haven't gotten interactivity yet. As soon as BD Java is up and working, they'll all be authored in Advanced mode too. At that point, what are the decoders in the receivers going to do? Decode the relatively few BD titles that were released before interactivity? Most of those titles will be re-issued anyway.

Personally, I'm glad that decoding is shifting to the player. I wish it had always been that way. Since receivers need the data in PCM form anyway, that's what every player should be outputting (irrespective of what format is used to store the data on the disc). As mentioned before, when new audio codecs and formats arrive, you'll have to buy a new player. But as long as the players keep outputting the audio in PCM form, current receivers will always remain compatible with anything that shows up in the future. How elegant is that!



Once again, marketing material from the hardware manufacturers is misleading. Onkyo outright claims that their upcoming DV-HD805 HD DVD player offers "streaming of the new lossless surround sound formats, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio, as well as two 'lossy' formats, Dolby Digital Plus and DTS®-HD High Resolution Audio." Sure, the player will be able to transmit the bitstreams of those formats, but only if the disc is authored in Basic mode, which no HD DVDs are, a fact they conveniently neglect to mention.

So, after all that, what does HDMI 1.3 truly gain the HD DVD or Blu-ray consumer that couldn't be gotten from any of the previous existing versions of HDMI? Frankly, not a lot. 1.3 offers the ability to transmit extended color ranges that don't even exist in the source, and makes available the delivery of raw audio bitstreams that are better off decoded inside the player first anyway, after which they can be (and currently are with great success) transmitted as uncompressed PCM by any version of HDMI. Honestly, the only real innovation that HDMI 1.3 allows for is the enhanced lip sync correction feature, and there's no indication of when or how that might be implemented.

If you were buying a new HDTV or A/V receiver right now and wanted to feel thoroughly future-proofed, it certainly couldn't hurt to make sure that they're HDMI 1.3 compliant, but there's no reason to feel nervous or cheated if they aren't. At the present time, for all practical applications, any version of HDMI is perfectly capable of transmitting the best that Blu-ray or HD DVD offers just as well as any other. Unfortunately, HDMI 1.3 is more hype than substance."
 

javelin_

Active Member
The 505E or the 605 which is best for me?

I have a 1080p TV and a 360, im looking to get a 1080p DVD player or a pS3 in the future after i've saved my pennies again, but i'm not sure which av unit i should go for?

I'm not desparate for the 1080p upscalling capabilities of the 605 because pretty much everything going into it will be 1080i/p. So what benefits am i going to experiance paying that £150 extra for the 605.

I'm planning on getting some KEF KHT1005s, that come with the deal, i hear these are pretty good. Any ideas, i'm not really wanting to pay the extra 150, but if people relly recommend the 605 for extra benefits than i'll have to prise my wallet open even further!

Cheers for the help!

The main benfit of 605 is that it supports Blue ray audio formats. If you buy an other receiver, you should have to change it to get full support for Blue ray when it becomes a standard. In regards of sound there is a chance that 505E sounds better then 605, as higher end onkyo series are lacking bass. Maybe the best choice could be HT-R508 as it is stronger then 505E and cheaper, beacuse it is 5.1, but thats all you currently need, exept if you use 7.1 speaker configuration. It is the best if you go to retailer, listen to each of them and decide on your sound preference.
 

Hollingsabre

Standard Member
Thats not a bad idea actually, but for an saving an extra £50 would i miss anything that i would need a little later down the line. Like you said i'll be only using a 5.1 system but i dont want to feel i've missed something for the sake of £50.
 

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