New office HiFi system - £1500 budget.

FoxWolfPuma

Standard Member
I really would not even try to use any eq that comes with Apple or any other manufacturer that isn’t a serious hifi/audio engineering concern.

Proper eq’ing software is no simple task. It takes serious skill, experience and development.

Totally understand and I take the point. It has improved things a tad, but you're right; I shouldn't have to fix something that I don't like. I can't do anything now until Tuesday due to the bank holiday, so I'll give the Klipsches plenty of time to see if they grow on me before making any decision.
 
Last edited:

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
There is something I just remembered about the 5s. I’ve seen in some reviews that there is a ‘bass improvement’ ypthing that is allegedly switched on as standard.

It’s supposed to assist bass at low volumes.

It should be switched off completely for you to hear them at their best.

Any ‘bass boost’ is always a cock up and should be outlawed by the speaker designer police. A truly dumb idea.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Also, since your speakers are going to be quite close to a wall or two and a desk top I’d further suggest pro monitors over the more ‘usual’ manufacturers.

Dynaudios, for example, have controls on the rear panel designed to avoid the problems this usually causes, and they are designed with hard nosed studio types in mind.

So they have to actually work.

The New LYD range controls are all based in the DSP design (as are a lot of other real active speakers too) and according to every review I’ve read, they work very well indeed.

Certainly the same kind work exceptionally well on my Adams.

The best bit about the LYD DSP is the ‘sound balance’ feature. It is essentially a tilt feature from low to high frequencies, or high to low.

It is done digitally, so there are no phase issues. It sounds simple, and it is, but it’s so helpful in bright rooms and in the opposite, but unlikely situation of an over damped room.
 
Last edited:

FoxWolfPuma

Standard Member
Yeah, it has that feature. It honestly doesn't do much (At least to my ears). I only notice it on tracks that have significant 30hz or lower bass. For most rock and metal I listen to, it's virtually invisible.

After having a couple hours break and coming back to them, I think I dislike them even more. :)

To be fair to them, I don't think they're designed for near-field hi-fi sound. I suspected that going in but with a free return policy I figured I'd try them out to at least remove them from consideration.
 

FoxWolfPuma

Standard Member
Also, since your speakers are going to be quite close to a wall or two and a desk top I’d further suggest pro monitors over the more ‘usual’ manufacturers.

Dynaudios, for example, have controls on the rear panel designed to avoid the problems this usually causes, and they are designed with hard nosed studio types in mind.

So they have to actually work.

The New LYD range controls are all based in the DSP design (as are a lot of other real active speakers too) and according to every review I’ve read, they work very well indeed.

Certainly the same kind work exceptionally well on my Adams.

I suspect you're right on this. I have a decent amount of space between front and rear walls, but the right speakers is a foot away from the side wall, and of course, there's the desk surface, so pro-audio will probably be the way to go. I'm going to sound out a couple of local-ish stores on Tuesday to see if they have any other bright ideas, but an active monitor solution is high up on my list of considerations for sure. Those Focals look great, too.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Yeah, it has that feature. It honestly doesn't do much (At least to my ears). I only notice it on tracks that have significant 30hz or lower bass. For most rock and metal I listen to, it's virtually invisible.

After having a couple hours break and coming back to them, I think I dislike them even more. :)

To be fair to them, I don't think they're designed for near-field hi-fi sound. I suspected that going in but with a free return policy I figured I'd try them out to at least remove them from consideration.

Aha. If you’ve already turned it off and you don’t like them then I’d say that’s it for them then.

Always worth a shot though as you say, as long as you’re not stuck with them.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
I suspect you're right on this. I have a decent amount of space between front and rear walls, but the right speakers is a foot away from the side wall, and of course, there's the desk surface, so pro-audio will probably be the way to go. I'm going to sound out a couple of local-ish stores on Tuesday to see if they have any other bright ideas, but an active monitor solution is high up on my list of considerations for sure. Those Focals look great, too.

The Focals do look classy, especially for active speakers. And certainly they look more expensive than they are.

And they are universally praised too.

You might also find some bargains around as the new ‘Evo’ ones are out and about now, so the originals when you can find them should have a suitable discount.

EDIT.

My bad, I was thinking about the Alphas when I mentioned the newer Evos. Sorry sir.
 
Last edited:

FoxWolfPuma

Standard Member
Aha. If you’ve already turned it off and you don’t like them then I’d say that’s it for them then.

Always worth a shot though as you say, as long as you’re not stuck with them.

Aye, I got free next-day-delivery so it was worth an experiment. A quick question on studio monitors: is there any concern about them not being as musically satisfying as 'regular audiophile' speakers or is the difference between them just a matter of marketing?
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Aye, I got free next-day-delivery so it was worth an experiment. A quick question on studio monitors: is there any concern about them not being as musically satisfying as 'regular audiophile' speakers or is the difference between them just a matter of marketing?

They are, to my mind, more satisfying.

There is a strange pile of myth and nonsense in hifi, that active speakers are too revealing... too accurate.

A little thought quickly dispels this nonsense though.

What we require from hifi is accurate and revealing...

Every lover of music wants to hear his songs as close as they can to the recording. And active speakers do that.

Studio actives are made for professionals who don’t tolerate mush nor any false hype of any of the frequency range. Nor should the home listener. If they do they are listening to their hifi and not to the music.

As an argument to absurdity, consider how many people who are in the process of upgrading their hifi actually say... ‘well, what I’m really after is less detail and more clouding of the midrange by a bloated bass response, that’s why I’m spending more money...’

In reality serious active speakers are an upgrade to passive systems at even more than the actives cost.

It’s simply a fact of how they are designed and made.

For instance, instead of relying on a two channel, non specific, amplifier split by analogue x-overs, actives have four separate, dedicated power amps, operating after the digital x-overs.

So, each driver has its own purpose built amplifier with no x-over loss or distortion added by it.

This alone translates into considerably greater overall control, especially of the bass driver, and a greater range of possible volume.

That doesn’t only mean greater volume with no distortion. It also means no loss of impact or detail even at very low, late night, volumes.

For just about any given budget, I’d always go for active monitors.

They actually do what hifi people claim to want.

But so many are into box changing, speaker wire voodoo and the hifi equivalents of homeopathy that actives are sometimes not only ignored but actively shunned for non existent reasons.
 
Last edited:

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
I was desperately trying to snatch up this bargain, but despite my best try I can’t get gat the cash together quite yet.

But if you’re after a serious set up, then this is certainly it for your budget.

 

FoxWolfPuma

Standard Member
They are, to my mind, more satisfying.

There is a strange pile of myth and nonsense in hifi, that active speakers are too revealing... too accurate.

A little thought quickly dispels this nonsense though.

What we require from hifi is accurate and revealing...

Thanks for the explanation. As a newb, it can be difficult to see through the marketing and the hype. I had considered the same logic as you. As a counter, one argument I have seen is that studio monitors are tools for engineers to mix for hifi/iphone/car etc... but personally, I think your logic holds. It's not like we're all going out to buy NS-10s.
 
Last edited:

FoxWolfPuma

Standard Member
I was desperately trying to snatch up this bargain, but despite my best try I can’t get gat the cash together quite yet.

But if you’re after a serious set up, then this is certainly it for your budget.


Seems like a good bargain. And within budget, but I just can't risk it. I'd prefer to buy new because of the returns policy and warranty.

As an aside, I just A/B'd the Klipsches with my SoundSticks. The latter wins by a massive margin, it's almost laughable considering they're about a 1/6th of the price. They actually sound 'hi-fi' in their way, whereas in comparison listening to the Klipsches sounds likes I have socks stuffed in my ears.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Thanks for the explanation. As a newb, it can be difficult to see through the marketing and the hype. I had considered the same logic as you. As a counter, one argument I have seen is that studio monitors are tools for engineers to mix for hifi/iphone/car etc... but personally, I think your logic holds. It's not like we're all going out to buy NS-10s.

:D

No, definitely not NS-10s.

The mixing for car, phones etc argument is spurious at best, and dishonest in fact.

If a person listens to Justin Beiber, or Little Minx (if that’s what they’re called) or similar, or if your source is a 64kps internet station, or a collection of scratched 78s, or uniformly all dials smashed to the max tat, then that person would not likely be here asking for advice.

The loudness wars too, as they’re called, have certainly killed some possible very fine music.

But there is still a ton of well recorded stuff in the world. And even ‘averagely’ recorded music deserves a good replay system.

Not only that, things like chill hop are largely enthusiast based and consequently can be well done indeed.

And by no stretch could sixties and seventies rock be said to have been recorded for the phone generation.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
Seems like a good bargain. And within budget, but I just can't risk it. I'd prefer to buy new because of the returns policy and warranty.

As an aside, I just A/B'd the Klipsches with my SoundSticks. The latter wins by a massive margin, it's almost laughable considering they're about a 1/6th of the price. They actually sound 'hi-fi' in their way, whereas in comparison listening to the Klipsches sounds likes I have socks stuffed in my ears.

That is very odd. I’m not a fan off the klipsch I’ve heard, but they should certainly better the Sound Sticks. Especially as they are over £800.

The Dynaudio set up I linked to was, possibly, a bit big for your room, but it’s a massive bargain for someone.

I’m thinking of a short mugging spree tomorrow afternoon...
 

FoxWolfPuma

Standard Member
All good points! The loudness wars are a pain, especially in metal. Metallica are by far my favourite band, but frankly, some of their albums are mixed so poorly I just can't listen to them very often. And you're spot on about chill hop. Most of what I listen to sounds fantastic. Likewise Synthwave. Very high and IMHO good quality production (from what I can tell from my current set up).

Yeah, I agree that it's weird about the Klipsch. Maybe mine are defective? All the reviews I've read and watched on things like the RPm-600 and the likes said they were bright/clear etc. These are just very dull. Without my own EQ they just don't have any punch. They wake up a little around 85db, but that's not practical for all day/late night listening. Tomorrow I'm going to experiment with putting them on stands and whatnot just to make sure I'm not being a complete tool.

Good luck with the mugging.
 

jamieu

Active Member
This thread might be worth having a read through, the OP ended up going with some Genelec 8010s but lots of other suggestions too.
 
Last edited:

FoxWolfPuma

Standard Member
This thread might be worth having a read through, the OP ended up going with some Genelec 8010s but lots of other suggestions too.

Thanks mate. See update below but I appreciate the link.

Just for your interest as we all hate the loudness wars. Good information on the dynamic range of both vinyl, CD and streaming here.


Thanks, Gibbsy. Interesting reading. I'm not surprised by the hilariously bad DRs of Metallica's 00s albums. Death Magnetic especially was so brick-walled and distorted that most of us fans had to resort to pirating original stems for Guitar Hero 3 because they were actually mastered and mixed to be listenable! Thankfully Hardwired isn't distorted, but still has a rather lean DR range.

Update: so on the advice of an engineering buddy of mine, I decided to eschew the studio monitors and trial a separates setup with an Audiolab 6000a + Triangle BR0 2s + Cambridge Audio Minx Subwoofer. And.... holy crap! The difference is staggering compared to the Klipsch The Fives. These Bro 2s are alive, incredibly present, bright (in the way I like), revealing... and the midrange! I've never heard Metallica's Black Album's guitars as good as this! I think it's safe to say that I'll definitely be returning The Fives and sticking with the Audiolab-Triangle-CA combo. I literally laughed out loud at how much better they were. And the best thing is that with everything included it all came in under budget by £100. Might put that to a half-decent set of cans.

Here's my current ghetto comparison set up. Don't worry, I've got some proper desk stands and iso-foam for the Triangles. This was just so I could A/B/C the speakers (the SoundSticks are still remarkable for their price and easily beat out The Fives for my personal taste, though they are much thinner on the midrange. The Triangles have the best of everything, IMHO. And they look incredible.

IMG_1462.JPG


Thanks to everyone for their help and input! I hope this thread helps people in a similar situation.
 

stitch123

Active Member
Thanks mate. See update below but I appreciate the link.



Thanks, Gibbsy. Interesting reading. I'm not surprised by the hilariously bad DRs of Metallica's 00s albums. Death Magnetic especially was so brick-walled and distorted that most of us fans had to resort to pirating original stems for Guitar Hero 3 because they were actually mastered and mixed to be listenable! Thankfully Hardwired isn't distorted, but still has a rather lean DR range.

Update: so on the advice of an engineering buddy of mine, I decided to eschew the studio monitors and trial a separates setup with an Audiolab 6000a + Triangle BR0 2s + Cambridge Audio Minx Subwoofer. And.... holy crap! The difference is staggering compared to the Klipsch The Fives. These Bro 2s are alive, incredibly present, bright (in the way I like), revealing... and the midrange! I've never heard Metallica's Black Album's guitars as good as this! I think it's safe to say that I'll definitely be returning The Fives and sticking with the Audiolab-Triangle-CA combo. I literally laughed out loud at how much better they were. And the best thing is that with everything included it all came in under budget by £100. Might put that to a half-decent set of cans.

Here's my current ghetto comparison set up. Don't worry, I've got some proper desk stands and iso-foam for the Triangles. This was just so I could A/B/C the speakers (the SoundSticks are still remarkable for their price and easily beat out The Fives for my personal taste, though they are much thinner on the midrange. The Triangles have the best of everything, IMHO. And they look incredible.

View attachment 1520920

Thanks to everyone for their help and input! I hope this thread helps people in a similar situation.
How are you finding this set up now? Do you find the sub a ‘must’?
 

FoxWolfPuma

Standard Member
How are you finding this set up now? Do you find the sub a ‘must’?

It's a fantastic-sounding system IMHO. Bear in mind, though, I'm only comparing to Harmon Karden SoundSticks III and Klipsch The Fives speakers.

As for the sub, I've actually returned it. Although it does fill out the bottom-end nicely, it wasn't particularly punchy, and I had a lot of trouble in getting it to work right in my small room.

The Bro 2's do have decent bass for the size. And, as most of the music I listen to (rock and metal) exists mostly in the midrange, I've not missed it. In short, depending on what you're listening to, I don't think a sub is essential. If you get larger speakers with bigger drivers than the Bro 2's, even less so.
 

stitch123

Active Member
Thanks for the reply. I’m going through a similar process and feel like I’m just chucking money at stuff at the moment, and going through lots of returns processes or picking stuff up used that I will have to sell on.

Your desk looks a lot deeper than mine, is the audiolab going to live on the desk too? I’m going down the passive route too and have been particularly targeting sub 20cm deep speakers, but still with a 5” woofer, meaning I have ended up with some MA BR1 speaker but was wondering if I had to factor in a sub realistically. However, I am not happy with them at the moment so might try some of the Triangles, i need to find somewhere with an okay returns policy.
 
Last edited:

FoxWolfPuma

Standard Member
Yeah, the Audiolab will go under the Mac. I've ordered a shelf and some metal legs. I've got some isolation spikes for the speakers. The amp is about 300mm deep and the desk 800mm deep so although it takes a chunk out of depth it's not enough to be intrusive for everyday use.

As for returns, I bought all my gear from Amazon, which has a brilliant and no-fuss returns policy. They'll even pay for collection. Richer Sounds have a £9.99 14-day exchange fee which is pretty good so perhaps one of those would work out. Oh, and Hifix have a 30 day returns, though you have to pay for insured courier delivery which can work out expensive. I just spent £50 to send back the Klipsch speakers. Not ideal, but it is what it is.
 

Ugg10

Distinguished Member
@FoxWolfPuma be interesting to see how you go with spikes under the speakers. Are the spikes going directly, or through pucks, to the table? Typically spikes couple the speaker to the item underneath it which is good if it is a concrete floor, bad if it is a hollow box or other resonant item. Using foam pads or sorbothane hemispheres or half squash balls, does isolate by damping the vibrations. They probably did not ought to be called isolation spikes, coupling spikes may be better.


I would try the spikes and then without and if you have some foam try that to see if you get any unwanted vibration in the desktop or resonance.
 

stitch123

Active Member
Thanks for the response. I am trying to both declutter and add more stuff to my desk lol. My desk is only 60 cm deep, which means a typical amplifier, and a lot of bookshelf speakers will take half that depth. Thats why I limited myself to bookshelfs around 20cm deep and mini amps. However I am now considering a small hifi shelf to the side of the desk to fit a better amp, although I don't know if all that is going to be give me a significant improvement in sound quality.

I really want to try the Triangle BR02 from Amazon, but they only have the black or brown fulfilled by Amazon, the white colour (my preference is not fulfilled by Amazon which I think has an impact on returns). I could get the black and then send them back whether I like them or not and buy the white if I did like them. I feel a change of speaker may give far better improvement in SQ than a change in amp, although I still do need to get some stands for my current speakers to see if that makes a difference first.
 

FoxWolfPuma

Standard Member
@FoxWolfPuma be interesting to see how you go with spikes under the speakers. Are the spikes going directly, or through pucks, to the table?
The shelf itself will be decoupled from the desk.

Stitch - I've just checked, and if I wanted to send back the white Triangles through Amazon, it is them that handle the return via Hermes pickup (like my sub) so you should be okay. But if you're unsure, then it makes sense to try one of the other colours first. As for amps, how about using one of the small Class D chinese jobbies from SMSL and the like? They're very small and would fit on (or preferably under) the desk without taking up much space.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Movies Podcast: Star Trek in 4K. Is the new boxset worth it?
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Latest News

T+A announces high end 200 Series audio components
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Trinnov Altitude update adds new features
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Panasonic TVs welcome Disney+
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Audio Research announces I/50 integrated valve amp
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Loewe confirms return to luxury TV market
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom