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Question New Lounge - New Setup - Advice Please

Planter

Active Member
Morning all,

So I've just bought a new house back in May and am now onto the final room - the lounge.

So, its all a bit of a mess at the moment as you'll see from the pics but, its being renovated and to an extent its a clean slate.

In my old place I used my current speakers which are a pair of B&W 685 S2's and a Centre which is a B&W HTM61 S2. I like these and will be keeping them. In the new place (pic enclosed) The LR & C allows for these to be used quite easily and positioned pretty much wherever I want. These a paired up to a Denon AVR-X3400. Still undecided on Sub??

Now the rear is where I'm struggling, because of the sofa position (which wont be changing) the fireplace will be a feature and the TV sits well in that spot (I will be upgrading that to a 55" - also undecided as of yet??).

So, from looking at my pics, what speakers would work well, and what position would you be looking at in the rear, I appreciate that 30-60cm or so above head works well, but the sofa being in one corner has thrown me and I'm therefore wandering if its too close to the individual sat there and maybe just use top corners instead.

Ive considered some B&W M1 (S2) as some rears, although open to suggestions as I dont think anything too big will work, but willing to consider any ideas.

So,

1) what position (bearing in mind the sofa in an ideal world will be staying put) would you locate speakers for a 5.1 set up at the rear?
2) What rears would work well with my current setup? (Budget of approx £600 for the surrounds, I have Van Damme Blue Series waiting.)
3) What Sub? I've been considering the REL HT/1003.

Thank you in advance
 

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gibbsy

Moderator
The M1s would make for good discreet surrounds. Position is more difficult. If Atmos is a future goal then I would actually place those speakers between your 2 vertical '?' neither too high or too low. In that way they will not impact greatly on those seated on the sofa. That would put their height at roughly where mine are, although my chair is away from the wall, and it works well for me.

It's very unusual for a room to not have some type of compromise for a HT setup. We all have to work to those compromises and your room is actually quite easy. Go with the front positions, the compromise there is the centre, will it be too high from the horizontal with the left and right or are you going to wall mount them with all tweeters aligned? Apart from that then the positions in the room will work.
 

Gasp3621

Well-known Member
M1s seems to be very popular choice with 600 serie speakers, especially if wall mounting them. 686 would be slightly better if pushing system really loud, but in typical living room wall mounted might be too large. SSAV has couple clearance products, which would save 60£. 686 is 229£/pair aswell. B&W M-1 (Black) Satellite Speaker (Single)

The lowest ? marks are too low, as the speakers would be just too near you, so Gibbsys recommendation is good. Another option would be to mix little bit and go with MA Bronze FX speakers and place them about just where Gibbsy said (30-60cm higher than seated ear height). And leave some space for the other speaker from side wall, as the tweeters are firing each direction. Monitor Audio Bronze FX White Ash Surround Speakers (Pair) - Satellite / Surround Speakers - AudioVisual Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists




55" tv would be too small, you didn`t mention the distance from couch to tv, but it looks you won`t be sitting near. Personally i wouldn´t take anything smaller than 65", it will be week or two and you would regret it (55")!! Get the largest you can afford.

Screen size Viewing distance range for 4K Ultra HD TVs
40" 3.3-5.0 feet
43" 3.6-5.4 feet
50" 4.2-6.3 feet
55" 4.6-6.9 feet
60" 5.0-7.5 feet
65" 5.4-8.1 feet
70" 5.8-8.75 feet
75" 6.3-9.4 feet
80" 6.7-10.0 feet
85" 7.1-10.6 feet


Subwoofer choice depends very much what you want it to do. Usage movies/music %, do you watch movies with moderate volumes and don`t care too much of the rumbles or the opposite; you listen loud and after more of "room shaking bass", that would probably mean your taste would lean more towards action/scifi type of movies which are more demanding. REL or any other other compact 10" sealed subwoofer can only do so much and your room doesn`t look smallest either.
 

Planter

Active Member
M1s seems to be very popular choice with 600 serie speakers, especially if wall mounting them. 686 would be slightly better if pushing system really loud, but in typical living room wall mounted might be too large. SSAV has couple clearance products, which would save 60£. 686 is 229£/pair aswell. B&W M-1 (Black) Satellite Speaker (Single)

The lowest ? marks are too low, as the speakers would be just too near you, so Gibbsys recommendation is good. Another option would be to mix little bit and go with MA Bronze FX speakers and place them about just where Gibbsy said (30-60cm higher than seated ear height). And leave some space for the other speaker from side wall, as the tweeters are firing each direction. Monitor Audio Bronze FX White Ash Surround Speakers (Pair) - Satellite / Surround Speakers - AudioVisual Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists




55" tv would be too small, you didn`t mention the distance from couch to tv, but it looks you won`t be sitting near. Personally i wouldn´t take anything smaller than 65", it will be week or two and you would regret it (55")!! Get the largest you can afford.

Screen size Viewing distance range for 4K Ultra HD TVs
40" 3.3-5.0 feet
43" 3.6-5.4 feet
50" 4.2-6.3 feet
55" 4.6-6.9 feet
60" 5.0-7.5 feet
65" 5.4-8.1 feet
70" 5.8-8.75 feet
75" 6.3-9.4 feet
80" 6.7-10.0 feet
85" 7.1-10.6 feet


Subwoofer choice depends very much what you want it to do. Usage movies/music %, do you watch movies with moderate volumes and don`t care too much of the rumbles or the opposite; you listen loud and after more of "room shaking bass", that would probably mean your taste would lean more towards action/scifi type of movies which are more demanding. REL or any other other compact 10" sealed subwoofer can only do so much and your room doesn`t look smallest either.
Thank you so much for the information.

I should’ve probably given more information. I will primarily use it for movies/series etc. With music also but secondary to movie use.

Distance wise I am about 8.5-9 ft away. However the width of the Fire place dictates the size of the tv unfortunately and at a push 60” will be boarderline edge to edge of the walls.

As I’m hard wiring I’m tempted to stick an extra pair in for the rears in prep for Atmos usage and almost have to pairs of M1’s together. One firing up and the others slightly downward.

As for the sub, I do like listening to movies quite loud for effect. But it won’t be deafening. Do you think a 10” would struggle. Lounge size is approx 14x12.

Thanks again
 

Gasp3621

Well-known Member
Thank you so much for the information.

I should’ve probably given more information. I will primarily use it for movies/series etc. With music also but secondary to movie use.

Distance wise I am about 8.5-9 ft away. However the width of the Fire place dictates the size of the tv unfortunately and at a push 60” will be boarderline edge to edge of the walls.

As I’m hard wiring I’m tempted to stick an extra pair in for the rears in prep for Atmos usage and almost have to pairs of M1’s together. One firing up and the others slightly downward.

As for the sub, I do like listening to movies quite loud for effect. But it won’t be deafening. Do you think a 10” would struggle. Lounge size is approx 14x12.

Thanks again
Ah yes it would go over and look odd then. You also have the larger 3-way center channel which pushes the tv even higher. I got a neck pain just watching the picture, that tv is quite high up. :laugh: But if it`s fine to you then no problem. Get the 60" tv then, no regrets later and you would maximize the size of tv you can have. 65" tv`s are quite norm these days, so chances are 60" won´t cost that much more (vs. 55"). I guess you always want something more/better/larger, but in your case you would know that you can´t get larger than that (60") and would put your mind at ease. But for me if i would know i could have gone to something larger, i would regret it soon.

I´m not sure i got the atmos part right. Two pairs at back one firing up and one as surrounds. :confused:5.1.2 is what you are aiming for with that receiver (atmos pair at front upfiring or as front/side heights) and in that case the surrounds shouldn`t be too high up. So the Gibbsys placement advice would be spot on. If you can push the couch forward little bit, that would be very good not only for the surround effects but in general aswell as the seating position against rear wall isn´t the best idea.

Depends what you mean by struggle, it can`t do some things as good as example XTZ 12.17 at 580£ delivered. 80£ extra would give you more power/headroom (500w/800w), larger driver (12") with larger cabinet and of course ported design with the ability to run in sealed aswell. Read this comparison of SVS SB1000 (519£) which is very much similar to REL, it has slightly larger driver in similar size cabinet and 300w class-d amp aswell, digs little bit deeper than REL for same money but the comparison will give you idea where the sealed sub struggles compared to ported model. Start at part Movies/TV and read each movie comparison and the song comparisons. The PB1000 in this comparison would be very similar to XTZ 12.17 .
https://www.hometheatershack.com/fo...66069-svs-pb1000-sb1000-subwoofer-review.html
 

Planter

Active Member
Ah yes it would go over and look odd then. You also have the larger 3-way center channel which pushes the tv even higher. I got a neck pain just watching the picture, that tv is quite high up. :laugh: But if it`s fine to you then no problem. Get the 60" tv then, no regrets later and you would maximize the size of tv you can have. 65" tv`s are quite norm these days, so chances are 60" won´t cost that much more (vs. 55"). I guess you always want something more/better/larger, but in your case you would know that you can´t get larger than that (60") and would put your mind at ease. But for me if i would know i could have gone to something larger, i would regret it soon.

I´m not sure i got the atmos part right. Two pairs at back one firing up and one as surrounds. :confused:5.1.2 is what you are aiming for with that receiver (atmos pair at front upfiring or as front/side heights) and in that case the surrounds shouldn`t be too high up. So the Gibbsys placement advice would be spot on. If you can push the couch forward little bit, that would be very good not only for the surround effects but in general aswell as the seating position against rear wall isn´t the best idea.

Depends what you mean by struggle, it can`t do some things as good as example XTZ 12.17 at 580£ delivered. 80£ extra would give you more power/headroom (500w/800w), larger driver (12") with larger cabinet and of course ported design with the ability to run in sealed aswell. Read this comparison of SVS SB1000 (519£) which is very much similar to REL, it has slightly larger driver in similar size cabinet and 300w class-d amp aswell, digs little bit deeper than REL for same money but the comparison will give you idea where the sealed sub struggles compared to ported model. Start at part Movies/TV and read each movie comparison and the song comparisons. The PB1000 in this comparison would be very similar to XTZ 12.17 .
https://www.hometheatershack.com/fo...66069-svs-pb1000-sb1000-subwoofer-review.html
Amazing advice. Thank you again.

As for Atmos I’m still trying to get my head around that as not had it previously.

I wasn’t sure whether it was more beneficial to have a set almost above me on the sofa down facing. I could fix these to a bar or direct to the ceiling rather than fitted into the ceiling. Or whether I just fit them above the front LR speakers.

From what I can gather. Unless they are ceiling mounted or down facing they should ideally (according to Dolby) not be higher than half the height of your wall. Which seems low.

Or am I reading that wrong

Thanks again
 

gibbsy

Moderator
The advice for Atmos speakers not being half to height of the wall is meant for upfiring modules such as my KEF R50s. Upfiring speakers can be very discreet with no need to chase in cables as they are, or should be for best position, sat on top of the front left and right speakers.

The ceiling needs to be between 8 and 14 feet high and completely flat. Made of reflective material, ie plaster or flat artex (although mine has a slightly stippled effect). I find the R50s work extremely well in my room but others report mixed results, especially with the entry level units from Onkyo.

The new KEF Q50a can also be wall mounted, I think in a downward firing position high against the ceiling.

KEF Q50a Atmos-Enabled Surround Speakers

What KEF modules look like in my set up:
165315424.7JqH7i6z.jpg
 

Planter

Active Member
The advice for Atmos speakers not being half to height of the wall is meant for upfiring modules such as my KEF R50s. Upfiring speakers can be very discreet with no need to chase in cables as they are, or should be for best position, sat on top of the front left and right speakers.

The ceiling needs to be between 8 and 14 feet high and completely flat. Made of reflective material, ie plaster or flat artex (although mine has a slightly stippled effect). I find the R50s work extremely well in my room but others report mixed results, especially with the entry level units from Onkyo.

The new KEF Q50a can also be wall mounted, I think in a downward firing position high against the ceiling.

KEF Q50a Atmos-Enabled Surround Speakers

What KEF modules look like in my set up:View attachment 1054372
Thats a big help and that makes a lot more sense. I was getting a tad confused with Atmos positioning, but the pic/link is perfect.

By the way, lovely and tidy looking set up you have

Cheers again all
 

Gasp3621

Well-known Member
I wasn’t sure whether it was more beneficial to have a set almost above me on the sofa down facing. I could fix these to a bar or direct to the ceiling rather than fitted into the ceiling. Or whether I just fit them above the front LR speakers.
On-ceiling should be great if you can go that route. Just cause "If you want sound to come from a specific location, it's best to put a speaker at that location." That`s not to say others wouldn`t work. Do some research about the right placement if you go this route. Post #6; Dolby Atmos 5.1.2, Height Speaker Placement - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

XTZ S2 atmosphere on-ceiling with member @assosman ; Question - How to attach xtz s2 to the ceiling ?

XTZ Cinema S2 Atmosphere Matte White (Pair)
 

Planter

Active Member
On-ceiling should be great if you can go that route. Just cause "If you want sound to come from a specific location, it's best to put a speaker at that location." That`s not to say others wouldn`t work. Do some research about the right placement if you go this route. Post #6; Dolby Atmos 5.1.2, Height Speaker Placement - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

XTZ S2 atmosphere on-ceiling with member @assosman ; Question - How to attach xtz s2 to the ceiling ?

XTZ Cinema S2 Atmosphere Matte White (Pair)
Probably the most helpful forum I’ve ever been part of. So beneficial and has already guided me totally on what’s needed.

Thank you all again
Nick
 

Killbill118

Active Member
Wow. Looks good man.
Can you get away with doing some in wall or celling work and running cables.
Perhaps the inwalls Kefs ci series may be an option for the back walls and the celling (atmos). Some pretty cool brands out there. And from when Iv seen inwalls do get the spouse approval.
 

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