New Kitchen for the Wife, new PC for me.. Please help...

Discussion in 'PC Gaming & Rigs' started by StevePSIV, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. StevePSIV

    StevePSIV
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    So.. as the title says, the wife is getting a new kitchen and I'm looking at getting my first gaming PC setup. I'm hoping a few of you around here can give me a hand over the next few weeks in helping me understand what it is I need..

    A few things to note;

    First of all budget - it ranges between £1,000 to £1,500.. This needs to include an Operating System. No monitor needed just yet but that will probably come a little further down the line.

    What will it be used for? If I'm talking to you guys then 99% of the time it will be specifically for gaming. Obviously to sell it to the wife I'll also be branding it as a place to be able to work from home and for somewhere the kids can use further down the line for homework (don't worry, they're only young so not likely to be touching it for a few years yet!)

    I've had a look around the internet and the threads on here and everywhere you look you get recommended different things. Been around AVForums for a good few years so tend to trust the respsonses from people here..

    Appreciate the responses.
     
  2. StevePSIV

    StevePSIV
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    Something like this was recommended on TrustedReviews

    CPU AMD Ryzen 5 1500X £168
    Motherboard MSI B350M Gaming Pro £75
    RAM Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB 3000MHz £129
    Graphics card EVGA GTX 1060 £300
    SSD Samsung 850 Evo 250GB £82
    HDD WD Blue 1TB HDD £43
    Power Supply Corsair CX650 £61
    Case NZXT S340 £70
    Cooler Included with CPU £0
    Software Windows 10 £102

    Total: £989
     
  3. Kwman

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    What resolution will you play at will determine what GPU you will need. For example if you say I want to play at 1080 with max settings, I'm sure someone can recommend a card and other specs.
     
  4. Delvey

    Delvey
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    Go with this but maybe upgrade to a GTX 1080 instead of the 1060. The 1060 will be fine at 1080p for current games, but I would not think it would be great in the near future.
    As for windows, buy OEM, like this: Opium Pulses - View
    I got mine from them for £10
     
  5. StevePSIV

    StevePSIV
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    1440p. I don't have the monitor just yet but that will come in the near future.
     
  6. StevePSIV

    StevePSIV
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    If you were going to upgrade that list though, what would you go for? So if I stretched the stuff in the list to spend an extra £200/£300 where would you spend it?
     
  7. StevePSIV

    StevePSIV
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    And how would it compare to my friends setup from a few months back..

    · CORS 750W CP-9020015-UK BRONZE (Power)

    · INTEL CORE i7 6700 s1151 3.4gh (Chipset)

    · 2x8G CORS VENG LPX DDR4-3200 (Memory)

    · Asus H170 Pro Gaming Mother Board (Mother Board)

    · Corsair SPEC-ALPHA (Case)

    · 8G Asus GTX 1070 Founders Edition (GFX Card)

    · 500GB Samsung 750 Evo SSD (Hard drive)

    · TLWDN4800 450 N Duel PCIe Adaptor (WiFi)
     
  8. DrEskimo

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    I would get a much better PSU (people always cheap out on this...) and I currently have a 1070 (was a 980ti, but was RMA and they sent me a 1070 to replace it) and it works well at 1440p resolution. 1080 would be great, but it's a hell of a price increase...

    Don't know enough about the new Ryzen, but i stuck to Intel when I bought my machine a few years back. Maybe it's different now?
     
  9. Delvey

    Delvey
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  10. TheNameIsJambo

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    CPU AMD Ryzen 5 1500X £168
    Don't be shy with your CPU power, Ryzen 7 all the way:

    AMD Ryzen 7 Eight Core 1700 3.70GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail
    Motherboard MSI B350M Gaming Pro £75
    A slightly more robust motherboard never hurts:
    Asrock AB350 Pro4 AMD B350 (Socket AM4) DDR4 ATX Motherboard
    RAM Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB 3000MHz £129
    As long as it's low-profile, it's okay.
    Graphics card EVGA GTX 1060 £300
    As per what the lads have been saying - If you're gaming at 1080P then this will suffice, if you're going for 1440P or higher, you're going to need more horse-power.
    SSD Samsung 850 Evo 250GB £82
    Just don't forget to partitions this, please. You'll thank me later. I've already had to do a clean Win10 install, recently - and one of my mates was plagued with Win10 freezing yesterday, you guessed it: a fresh install of Windows 10 and he only had one partition.

    Allocate 120GB for Win10.
    HDD WD Blue 1TB HDD £43
    You'll fill this in no time. Look into larger HDDs.
    Power Supply Corsair CX650 £61
    I don't know why people are complaining about this, the PSU seems to do the job, see the shootout:
    600-650W power supplies review: 46 models compared

    If you plan on overclocking I would definitely buy a higher rated PSU [I.E 750W-860W] - The higher you go, the more efficient they are; in most cases. And with the AMD Ryzen series, you'll definitely want to plump an OC on there. They are behind Intel in single-threaded applications and an OC will help dramatically.

    As a final note - Ideally, you should go for a Modular PSU. That way you won't have a mountain of cables packed away into your case; especially if you go for a mid-size case. You will only use the cables you need.
    Case NZXT S340 £70
    If you opt for the above PSU, you need to remember that those cables need to go somewhere - I would focus on how much space is behind the side panel [behind the motherboard] for hiding them. As opposed to stuffing them inside a hard-drive bay [at the front of the case] or such like.

    Also, look at the case's cable-routing and whether they have rubber grommets (to protect the cables, and it also looks better).
    Cooler Included with CPU £0
    Always buy an aftermarket cooler. Even the cheap ones perform better than the supplied ones. You don't even need to go that high up the food chain - a simple one around £20-30 will suffice.
    Software Windows 10 £102
    I'd just buy a key online.​
     
  11. sykotik

    sykotik
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    Why should he partition the drive ?
    I have an 850 Evo 250gb ( used as storage games drive ) never had any problems with it.​
     
  12. alphaomega16

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    1080's can be had for ~500 some under, Scan and Overclockers have a good selection and if you like Overclockers they have been known to price match scan so may be worth a punt.

    When they come in stock at OCUK I will be getting a MSI 1080 Gaming X RGB for £539 (Price Match with Scan) but a 1070 should suffice for now as well.

    I am only going for a 1080 as when I got my current 670GTX it was mid range under £200 but I can buy the rest of the system later but I am buying the gpu now incase the prices start to rise.
     
  13. moonbeam120

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    It's not the drive it's if Windows 10 is installed as the boot drive. If you have never had any issues with it you are a lucky man.

    Personally I think W10 is crap. I have a £200 capture card it point blank refuses to support and a sat card that runs like a dog on W10 but runs great with W7 and W8.1.

    Partitioning the drive makes it easier to reinstall W10 without messing about with your games etc...
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  14. alphaomega16

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    That is why I like a small OS drive.
     
  15. moonbeam120

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    You don't need a separate device. I've got a 512GB M.2 NVMe SSD partitioned as a W10 200GB boot drive with essential programs. The rest is used for games and lower priority apps. I have a 3TB HDD for local storage.

    I use my old (2600K) PC with 10TB of storage in RAID 1 as a NAS.
     
  16. TheNameIsJambo

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    It's not to do with the drive, it's to do with having your OS on the same drive as the rest of your data. It's simply bad practice.

    Have you never-ever read the Bible?

    "He who shant partition hiera hard-disks shall reap the wrath of thy Lord." - Corinthians 13:37.

    There will come a time when Windows 10 automatically updates without your implicit knowledge; it likes to do it when you're not looking.

    One day, you'll get off of PC chair and head to the toilet. You'll be sitting on the toilet reading that joke book that always sits near the bog. You're having a good old laugh, but now, you put the book down: The Time has arrived. Before you can even enjoy the fruits of your labour, in the background, you hear this childish giggling noise. It's instantly put you off and you've had to cut it short.

    The sound was coming from nowhere, but everywhere, instantaneously. It's simply emanating from your entire house.

    You go check on the kids and they're sound asleep... You go give them a kiss, because you have a sinking feeling in your stomach.

    Where did that noise come from?

    It was a noise of which you've never heard before. It was like a child that is up to mischief, but it was like no child you've ever heard before. The pitch was off. It was too deep to be a child's giggle. You try and shrug it off, but there's something niggling at you, a buzzing at the base of your skull.

    When you return to your machine you'll be prompted to restart to update your computer and you'll hear a grave voice rumbling and ringing in your ears, "Restart sykotik... Everybody restarts.. And you will too." You won't have self-control, your hands have been possessed. You watch helplessly as your hands work automatically. They drift down to the Start icon and hit the power icons.

    Inside you're screaming as your system shuts down. It's installing updates and then has the penultimate restart. When your system boots and you're just about to launch your favourite game, you shall suffer at the hands of system lockups and blue-screens.

    Then he has you sykotik, right where he wants you.

    I've partitioned my drives for years and it's saved a lot of blood, sweat and tears. Especially when you want to try new operating systems. I've got several operating systems: Win 7 [My fall-back OS], Win 10 & Linux Mint [Recovery OS].

    Win 7 is on its' own HDD, contained in its' own partition.

    When you have to recover an OS, it's much easier to simply wipe the partition, as opposed to your entire hard-drive - or have to boot up Linux Mint, recover all of your data to another disk and/or external backup medium.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  17. Cha1ky

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    Never done a partition nor have I ever had a catastrophe with the OS that i've had to totally re-install it.

    Doubt i'll ever bother either.

    Running Windows 10 fine here.
     
  18. sykotik

    sykotik
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    PMSL , brilliant , probably the best thing im going to read all day :rotfl:

    but now i know why ..:smashin:
     
  19. StevePSIV

    StevePSIV
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    Thanks for all the responses.. I must admit that a lot of it is going over my head at the moment.. Never really understood 'overclocking' and never heard of partioning drives before. Will do a bit of reading to get a better understanding..

    In regards to prices at the moment, are we likely to see any price drops in the near future or are the prices fairly acceptable as they are?
     
  20. DrEskimo

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    I'm sure there are plenty of people that say the same about backing up hard drives. Of course if it does happen, they jolly well wish they did back everything up!

    As they say, there are two people, those that back up and those that wish they had...

    I think the gentleman Jambo makes a very sound argument for putting an OS on its own partition, for what is very little prep for very big gains if something goes wrong!

    I mean, each to their own but your argument seems a little odd to me!

    I thank Jambo for his very sound advice [emoji106]
    Something I will be doing in future installs undoubtedly.
     
  21. TheNameIsJambo

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    Don't forget your toilet-based reading material.

    Overclocking these days has become an absolute doddle. It's no longer the mystic art it used to be. Hardware has become so refined and software has become so robust and user friendly that overclocking poses little-to-no threat to your system; unless you are going for the High Score, and you push it past the defined OC'ing boundaries.

    I remember the days of increasing frequencies and inching up Voltages in the BIOS, then waiting through the lengthy boot-up process, performing a stability test, all for it to crash. You go back and either increase Voltages or reduce frequencies, rinse-and-repeat... Rinse-and-repeat.

    Now, in order to squeeze more performance out of my rig it's all at the touch of a button in the BIOS, or you can even do it inside your operating system.

    Most of the time the GPU will self-overclock (GPU Boost, or such). And you can apply a very minimal OC on top of this - almost like a throwback to the good old days.

    CPUs are becoming the same - To the point where you can only squeeze a few hundred MHz out of your chip. My old 2600K has a base-block of 3.4GHz and a 'Boost' of 3.8GHz, but mine has been OC'd to 4.6GHz. The new i7 7700K has a base clock of 4.2GHz and automatically boosts to 4.5GHz - with some achieving a very small OC.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  22. Cha1ky

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    Each to their own. My documents etc are all backed up elsewhere so it's only the hassle of re installing everything again if it does go wrong, which in reality can sometimes be a good thing anyway to clean up the system.

    I understand why people would do it, I just don't bother personally. In all the years I've used Windows, not once has it just failed on me where i've lost everything (watch it happen now lol).

    Plus my SSD space is a premium i can't cut in half :)

    Its entirely a users choice.
     
  23. StevePSIV

    StevePSIV
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    I guess the over thing that concerns me is the upgrading.. Reading things like this for example in regards to putting in an Intel CPU;

    the only thing to consider is that upgradeability will be limited. Intel’s upcoming 8th-gen CPUs won’t use the same motherboards and there’s only one more processor that’s more powerful that’s compatbile with this board – the 7700K.

    It's also working out whether or not components are compatible. For example, if I went for a 1080 Graphics card, how would I know what CPU would be needed to support that? What about the other bits such as RAM...

    Any good bits of material out there that I can read up about these sort of things?
     
  24. jonnyc

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  25. TheNameIsJambo

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    Yes, Intel have a Tick-Tock cycle and unfortunately the result is that you need a complete chipset upgrade every 2 years. The last chipset that lasted longer than 2 years was back in the Core2Duo and Pentium 4 era [LGA775].

    AMD, on the other hand, are far more consumer friendly. Their AM3 chipsets were DDR2 and DDR3 compatible, so you could throw older CPUs onto newer motherboards. I think that resulted in about 7-9 years of backwards compatibility! (You'd need to Google/verify that, but I'm probably not far off!)

    AMD have put on their big boy boots now though. They currently have two new sockets: AM4 [For Ryzen] and TR4 [for Threadripper].

    It's good to see AMD finally making a massive impact in the CPU market again! :D
     
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  26. TheNameIsJambo

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    @StevePSIV - Here's the rules of the thumbs
    Gaming @ 1080 = CPU bound - You'll see AMD Ryzen fall behind Intel here because AMD is weaker in single-thread performance. The CPU has to feed the GPU data and Intel will do this quicker because the cores are faster.

    Gaming @ 1440+ = GPU bound - The gap between AMD and Intel virtually closes because you're pushing the GPU harder. The CPU will be feeding the GPU enough data, regardless.

    As an aside - The jump to 2560x1440 [QHD] is a 30% increase over 1920x1080 [FHD].​

    With a Ryzen 7 or Intel i5 / i7 you will not bottle-neck any GPU. Even my old 2600K will not cause a huge bottle neck at larger resolutions.

    Deciding on what resolution you're going for is fairly vital to what GPU you will go after. An FHD rig could get away with a GTX 1060; with a mix of High-Ultra settings, but a QHD rig is looking at 1070 / 1080 [depending on what settings you want]. A UHD rig is a definite call for the GTX 1080 Ti.

    Goto sites like Guru3d, [H]ardOCP, TechPowerUp! and Toms Hardware. Read some of the Reviews/Benchmarks on GPUs and CPUs :)
     
  27. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Can't help with your PC rig but would advise you get a better 'negotiator' - a New Kitchen vs. a New PC seems a bad deal!

    Joe
     
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  28. StevePSIV

    StevePSIV
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    Having done a bit of digging around, what makes you recommend the Ryzen 7? It would seem wasted for my gaming needs and more suited to those video editing etc..

    The upshot is that the 1700 is potentially ideal for those seeking huge eight-core multi-threaded processing power for tasks such as video encoding, batch photo editing, file compression, encryption, professional 3D rendering or scientific calculations – but on the cheap.
     
  29. stument

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    You might as well use those two or even just one M.2 PCIE Slots on the Mobo... might be a good Bootdrive just for Windows (thats what i usually do)
     
  30. TheNameIsJambo

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    It's an old adage, but software will follow the hardware.

    When the Core2Duo was released developers started making their applications multi-threaded. Bazinga! We could see 50% utlilisation across 2 cores. Core2Quad was released, again, software began to get more robust. Developers started multi-threading their software.

    Unfortunately, that wasn't immediately true with games. The consoles were vastly different from our desktop hardware - Even the PS3 and Xbox 360 were worlds apart; with their custom PowerPC CPUs and proprietary NV and AMD GPUs. Developers (almost) never optimised them for more than 2 threads.

    Then they'd simply kick the game off to a company like QLOC to create [or 'port'] the PC version. This didn't always translate very well; there are a whole raft of issues we've encountered. Therefore we basically had to brute force our way through games [with single-thread CPU speed] and rely on Intel and AMD to schedule the work on the CPUs efficiently. That's why Intel has run away with the market for so long - their single-threaded performance was far stronger than that of AMD.

    As a quick example of a brutal PC port - Skyrim. This was simply appalling when it was first released. The developer (BethSoft) never even had SSE enabled, resulting in the game running like utter crap - Not to mention that they had tied shadows to CPU rendering! :eek: (Yes, graphics rendering on a CPU, just like the console version).

    However, the tide is turning. Games have become more efficient on our desktops. There are some outstanding examples of multi-threaded optimization on the PC; Batman: Arkham Asylum, GTA V, Metal Gear Solid V, just to name a few.

    The PS4 and Xbone consoles have AMD's x86 architecture and 8 cores at their heart - the architecture may be different from Ryzen, but the synergy is already there. The new Xbox X and PS4 Pro have cross-fire GPUs; meaning the graphics-rendering will need to be split across 2 GPU cores for upcoming titles, but still be backwards compatible with one GPU.

    This is a period of transition and we are clearly moving away from 4 CPU cores as, "the norm". Intel is about to standardise 6 cores as their new (affordable) mainstream flagship in their new i7-8000 release and Ryzen have already taken the leap with 8 cores. Usually hexacore CPUs were reserved for the most elite gamers (who wiped their arses with £50s).

    As of right this very second, the affordable alternative to an 8 core / 16 thread Ryzen CPU is a more expensive 4 core / 8 thread Intel CPU. You can literally get twice the CPU for a similar price.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017

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