Discussion in 'Headphones, Earphones & Portable Music' started by cpj, Jan 12, 2005.
I don't need to say any think just have a look!!!!
does anyone have any thoughts,
they certainly kept this quiet
Dunno about the rest of you, but I like to know what I'm listening to, so lack of a screen is a big no-no for me.
I know what mean about the screen thing,
but surely thats apart of the fun the randomness of it all, besides you know whats on there as your the one who put it on in the 1st place,
Not if there are 1000+ files/songs on it. And what if just once in a while, you wanted to listen to a particular song? Can't do it.
1000+ !? You'll be lucky - Apple quote 240 songs for the 1Gb shuffle.
ok didnt check the spec. I assumed it would be similar to the iPod Mini. Still, suppose you had about 1000 songs on your PC, and 240 of them you copied across to the iPod - would you honestly always rememebr which songs you'd copied across?
Yes and no. If I'd built a custom playlist, I might be able to recall which album's I'd put on there (say 24 albums ? Possible ...).
I do buy the whole 'shuffle' thing though - it's exactly how I use my 20Gb iPod today. Smart playlist based on the whole library, don't play anything that I've heard in the last couple of days, turn on shuffle. I just hit next if I don't like what comes up.
Not at all sure about 'Aufofill' though. Then you'd (a) have no clue what's on there (maybe you like suprises though ), and (b) how annoyed would you be if it had autofilled with all the stuff you really don't want to listen to today ? There are ways around both of these, but none are really convenient. I'd stick with my own playlists. Maybe.
Still, I'm sure it'll be a big hit with the gym crowd, runners etc. A solid state player is going to be much more robust.
And if you want a screen, it's not like you haven't got a hundred and one other players to choose from.
Here's what Creative's CEO Sim Wong Hoo has to say about it:
"Were expecting a good fight but theyre coming out with something thats five generations older. Its our first generation MuVo One product feature, without display, just have a (shuffle feature). We had that thats a four-year-old product. So I think the whole industry will just laugh at it, because the flash people its worse than the cheapest Chinese player. Even the cheap, cheap Chinese brand today has display and has FM. They dont have this kind of thing, and they expect to come out with a fight; I think its a non-starter to begin with."
lol, too funny. Couldn't resist posting it.
It will be interesting to see how well this sells though. It probably will. It doesn't have to be cutting edge since Apple's products are about style.
I have to say that i pretty much agree with the above post. Not to knock Apple though as the IPOD is a truly fantastic product.
However, i really don't see the point in this device at all! It is old technology, and has been done before. (and is still being done but only better...)
Strong price points for the 2 models and the power of the Apple brand name will no doubt help to produce excellent sales...
..... http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/images/iProduct.gif ....
However I have to admit to just ordering one! Have an iPod and wanted a second to stop arguments over who was going to use it today
Didn't need another 20GB iPod so was going to go for the iPod mini but waited as there was such a shortage everywhere. Then this came out - perfect. Might have been done before but as its an Apple its easier as it links up to existing playlists, you can either autofill or drag and drop selected songs/albums. As its not the main player 240 songs on the 1GB is plenty and its tiny!! You don't need a separate docking station it just plugs straight into USB.
Could turn out to be a bad buy but I'll let you know!!
it looks really cool and for small change it looks like a great product. People should stop knocking a company that have done it right for once.
I don't own anything Apple but I really like what they have done. When was the last time anyone really wanted to buy a "walkman". Years ago thats when, so Apple have kick started a new wish list there. Competition will keep them and everyone else on their toes, but without the iPod it wouldn't even happen.
I wish them luck with the new one
kwijibo, I think you're missing the point. The shuffle doesn't offer ANYTHING that other flash mp3 players don't already offer, in fact, it offers less. And because it offers less, apple are focusing on the shuffle feature (which is hardly a new technology, CD players have come standard with it for 15 years and flash mp3 players have had it for 4 years.) They're using it as a marketing gimmick to divert attention from the fact that this is a sub-par product.
They haven't 'done it right' as you say, they've just done it to get into the flash market.
I have no problem with apple, I own a 40Gb iPod and it's great. But this is just marketing talk. I'm sure it will do the job that it does very well, and anyone buying one, that's fine. But this isn't an innovative product, and for what it is, it's hardly cheap.
The one thing the shuffle offers that no other flash players offer is iTunes support.
Why don't they just say "Hi, now we're going to REALLY start taking the p*ss!".
The Apple/i-pod bubble will burst when people grow a bit of common sense...so no time soon, then.
To make out that 'shuffle' is a feature to be desired shows contempt for the piblic beyond words. The very earliest CD players had shuffle on them - and that's over 20 years ago, now. And I've never, ever used this feature!
mmm so I have no common sense then - thanks
Seriously, I'm not buying it for the shuffle feature, I'm buying it because as a secondary player it gives me everything I'm looking for and is compatible with my main player.
I haven't looked at all the advertising in detail but are Apple really marketing this as a 'new innovative' machine? Are they really calling it the iPod shuffle to advertise this stunning new feature?? Or are they calling it shuffle because as the smallest player in the range its basically all it does! I can't see calling it the iPod mini mini being a good marketing move Maybe this is just the latest in a successful range which offers consumers another option?
I had to chuckle at the Creative CEO's statement earlier in the post.
I had a look at Creative's website to try and find an iPod Shuffle competitor.
The Creative Labs MuVo 64 MB (no screen mp3 player) was the closest I could find at £40
So let's compare apples with apples. The 512Mb iPod (no screen) is £69
but with 8 times the storage!
Apple's new iPod will not be suitable for everyone, but I believe it is good value, especially in combination with iTunes.
Creative Labs MuVo 64Mb with no screen is £25 at Comet. No, not in the sale.
Creative Labs MuVoTX 512Mb with screen AND FM player can be found for around the £75-£80 mark. (microdirect)
Well having walked around CES last week listening to all the MP3 players that were there I can say that the Ipods were the best sounding by a long way...Creative mini thing was not that clever at all....Didn't get to hear one of these though(edit...this refers to the new apple stick thing not the mini zen thing).
I liked the new Ipod Photo. Not for carrying around my pics but because it downloaded the artwork for your discs....sad I know...
I think this will still sell bucket loads, however for me personally the fact that it doesn't have a screen is a big turn-off.
Sorry, I wasn't implying that you had no common sense - just that I can't see the sense in buying this, or a lot of other i-pod products. Apologies.
"Well having walked around CES last week listening to all the MP3 players that were there I can say that the Ipods were the best sounding by a long way."
Sorry, but I simply don't accept this.
Now fair enough, I wasn't there, and haven't listened to all these players.
HOWEVER, I have a f***ing good CD walkperson, and in general use I couldn't honestly say it was better sounding "by a long way" than any mp3 player I've listened to. If you're telling me that the new i-pods sound better than CD, then I have to question your ears.
We had this recently when discussing the i-pod click wheel, where someone argued that other players' controls were 'medieval' in comparrison.
Is it necessary, or constructive, or honest, to refer to tiny differences as if they were gigantic?
60GB capacity v 20gb capacity is a gigantic difference.
£250 v £450 is a gigantic difference.
The difference in sound quality & usability between these players isn't. For years CD players have had marginally different controls. Some flick through too quickly for some tastes when on ffw-search, others too slowly. Some 'un-pause' when you press pause, for others you have to press play. But these differences have rarely warrented a mention in reviews (or at forums like this), and certainly would only act as a deal-breaker if everything else was equal.
As for the i-pod photo, well the 60GB model is £200 more than my 60GB Zen, and the only real difference is the colour screen. I cannot judge whether or not the screen will be worth £200 to you (it's you money), but I couldn't justify it for myself. The latest edition of What Hi-Fi says the screen is pretty useless, and to make use of the i-pod pic you need to hook it up to a bigger screen. Sort of defeats the object, doesn't it?
Steve: You can read can't you? Did I mention CD players? NO.....Did I mention listening to MP3 players...yes! I am sorry you can't accept that I am telling you the truth of my experience. I guess that means you think I am lying....nice.....
I guess I am an idiot as well. I spent about 5 minutes trying to work out how to operate the Creative mini 5gb thing. I found it un-intuative and gave up. Eventually someone showed me and I managed to navigate my way around. I walked in to the Apple store and picked up an Ipod and had it sussed in seconds.
I do not know what rates the MP3's were stored on all the different devices and, of course, they did not all have the same headphones attached but I can say with confidence I found the sound I heard on the Apple products obviously superior. This was not a controlled demo obviously. Incidentally I myself own no MP3 portables and use no MP3 portables. On this outing though I'd be going IPOD.
You're absolutly right!
This whole iPod thing has become some kind of religion and every single piece on it is like the best thing ever happened to the world. It's just a f***ing mp3 player like every other else, except the fact that you're paying 100s of (I'm from germany) more just for the life style that comes with it...
And if someone is saying that the iPod sounds better than CD - it's like the people telling that jesus could walk on water...
mp3 is a compression and can never be the same as CD quality but if you want to believe in it, do it. And if you're opened to the "real world" than use you're brains and get the best out of your money!
Please direct us to where someone is claiming that MP3's sound better than CD. I myself will give them a kicking
"Steve: You can read can't you? Did I mention CD players? NO.....Did I mention listening to MP3 players...yes! I am sorry you can't accept that I am telling you the truth of my experience. I guess that means you think I am lying....nice....."
I think you've completely missed the point.
Look, it's quite simple. Portable CD players don't sound better than most mp3 players (Rios, Zens, etc) "by a long way". Subsequently, as it's not possible for an i-pod to sound better than a CD player, it is clearly impossible for an i-pod to sound better than a Rio or Zen "by a long way".
It's as simple as that.
I cannot argue that you found the i-pod to be a better sounding player (though I'd point to just about every review I've ever read which says different), but I'm going to stick to my guns, and a bit of simple logic, and point out that it simple cannot sound significantly better.
I wouldn't (and didn't) use the word "lying". I will say that I'm becoming increasingly fed up with i-pod users continued use of hyperbole, blowing small difference out of all proportion, in what I can only guess is an attempt to justify their unnecessary extra expenditure.
My point remains this. The sound quality & usability points are arguable, and at best small. The differences in price & capacity are unarguable and large.
Well I guess I am a deluded fool....but one who doesn't own a Creative or Apple product. I'll bow out now as it seems pretty pointless continuing in the face of such astounding logic
Come off it, it's hardly rocket science!
Steve - no apology needed - I didn't take offence, I've been told I have no commen sense (and worse) many a time
Still have to say though that the iPod I have has been well worth the money and I'm hoping the shuffle will be worth it too. Sorry but we'll have to agree to disagree
I like it....why :
Its cheap.. space is everything on a flash device.
Its simple to use and theres nothing to break on it.
It hooks into itunes.. which can take care of filling it everytime you plug it in.
The only real market imho for flash players is for younger children whom you do not trust with a ipod/hd based player and ppl using them during exercise/sports.. the display is unimportant for such a device.. if you need to really know therefore a ipod mini or eqivalent would be much better suited.
The quotes from creative are interesting but as Apples market share in the last year has risen from 35% to 70% of the digital marketplace.. with the remaining percentage being falsh based players then they should be worried. Flash players in comparison to HD based players seem very poor value.. hence additional features like FM radios and the like are added to raise their value..The competition may have produced these type of player 5 gens ago but they did not sell it for £69, nor did it have itunes behind it.
One thing in the past apples comptetitors have had is pricing.. apple is not cheap.. but now this should at least liven up the flash based market as anything over £100 for a less than 1 gig player is going to look bad.
Now many other ppl can join in the apple revolution.. use the shuffle with itunes and if they decide its not enough they are placed perfectly to move up the range.. all their music is sorted within itunes.. why learn something new.
I am quite tempted to get one as a second player.. I use all song shuffle all the time. it helps air parts of my music catalogue that otherwise would be missed.
Though currently I am not using any ipod players.. I have a Vaio Pocket hooked into Sonic Stage.. but the shuffle would be great for that quick fix.. or visit to the gym.
Anyway for me first thing on the shopping list is a Mac Mini
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