Dismiss Notice
Attention AVForums app / Tapatalk users
Sadly GDPR means that, from 25th, we can no longer offer access to AVForums via the branded app or Tapatalk.
Click here for more information.

New HT Amp equipment

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by lemke, Jan 1, 2005.

  1. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Am looking for a new HT Amp, and the Denon 2105 in combination with the DVD1910 is one of my choices. Others are the Yamaha 750, Pioneer VSX-1014 or Panasonic sa-xr70 ... or the new Kenwood KRF-X9080.

    In my quest I came up with the following:
    My plasma has RGB Scart (and a DVI interface which is HMDI capable).
    Because I have different video sources (RGB, Y/C and composite), my dealer tells me that it's possible to switch all these input signals to one out RGB signal to my Plasma with the Denon 2105. Nice because there's only one cable going to my Plasma. All inferiour signals are then upscaled to the RGB.

    But I only see Component out on this machine!! It has the correct R(ed),G(reen),B(lue) jacks, but this is not the same as RGB ... I think.

    Or is it ??? Any good explanation for this?
    Of course the 1910 also has a DVI (with 1080i). So that's also a nice solution.
    Or should I go for the other systems. Would be nice to use the HDMI of the Pany. Then I need a conversion from HDMI to DVI.

    Dang, so difficult to choose from ... with all those functions and possiblities.
    Many Thanks for the advice.

    Greetz
    Lem

    PS. : Oh, combination will be with the KEF 2005.2 or the MS Genie (Hello in BE)
     
  2. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Let's make it less complex.

    My Plasma has RGB (scart).
    Can the Denon 2105 switch RGB signals so I can only go with one cable to my Plasma.

    Greetz,
    lem
     
  3. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    OK, getting desperate ;) ... but maybe like this.

    Can I use the Denon 2105, Onkyo TX-SR602 or the Marantz 5500 to switch RGB (Scart) Video signals via the Component in/out ports of these receivers?

    Greetz,
    Lem
     
  4. Wasabi

    Wasabi
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,188
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    SBC (Swedish Born Chinese)/lived in UK since 96, C
    Ratings:
    +32
    lemke,

    Before we start giving advice, what are the sources and what outputs do they have?

    Dvd player, digital box etc?

    Wasabi
     
  5. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi Wasabi,

    Best input for my Plasma (philips 42pf9966) is RGB-Scart, so no component.
    I have a PS2 (composite), DVD (RGB) and PC (Composite). Digital Sky or what so ever is not available here, but you never know what's coming up.

    But I've been looking into the different video streams. Component YPbPr is setup differently than the RGB signal. They are not compatible. So I won't be able to use my newly receiver to switch the different video streams. If it was only relay switching, you could use a receiver to switch RGB via the YPbPr connections, but all those systems do upscale or convert to one output.

    Main limitation is that my Plasma has no Component, only RGB, Y/C and composite. So I'm now looking into it with Philips. They deliver a Component to VGA cable for the 50pf9966, and maybe that could work on my 42pf9966. Although the 50 is not ALIS and mine is.

    So no switching via my new receiver (whatever chosen) and maybe just go for the DVI (with additional DVI/VGA adpater) which is also HDMI compatible.

    Any other advice is always welcome.

    Greetz,
    Lem.

    PS. : ALIS with RGB on the Philips gives a excellent PQ (for the unbelievers ;) )
     
  6. Wasabi

    Wasabi
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,188
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    SBC (Swedish Born Chinese)/lived in UK since 96, C
    Ratings:
    +32
    Wow, difficult stuff Lem,

    If your plasma have a VGA input then what about this;

    Denon dvd-1910 dvi out -> dvi in
    PS2 out -> RGB scart in (should bring considerate improvement)
    PC VGA out -> VGA in

    And just route all your audio signals to your chosen amp?

    what are the prices of the all the amps you mentioned in Belgium?

    Wasabi
     
  7. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yeps,

    That was one of my conclusions. Forget switching via my newly receiver and just go for a DVI or HDMI DVD player (Maybe Denon 1910 or panasonic 97S). And connect all other equipment directly to the Plasma. Interfaces enough so (DVI, 3x SCART and Y/C on the side).

    This way, I can always watch the Plasma without using my HT.

    I can only hope that Philips has a solution to use Component with my Plasma.

    Thanks anyway.
    Lem
     
  8. Wasabi

    Wasabi
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,188
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    SBC (Swedish Born Chinese)/lived in UK since 96, C
    Ratings:
    +32
    Lem,

    I think that is the best way, unless as you say Philips comes up with a solution, but I doubt that.

    So what about the amp choice, still needing advice from us?

    Wasabi
     
  9. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hey Wasabi,

    Nice that you're still interested. Here it is:

    First a speakerset, small but good. I heard the Harmon Kardon KT7 together with the MS Genie. MS is twice as much more expensive but a lot better. MS Genie has a much better center as the HK. And the subwoofer was more straight and darker. Realy nice.
    I also heard the Kefs 2005.2 but not in the same run with the MS Genie. So I can't really compare with the Kefs. I think they are the same except for the base and center. MS is IMHO slighly better.

    MS is also a new set so I go for that speakerset. But there are not a lot dealers in Belgium and the prices vary a lot, going from 1000 to 1350 Euro. Kef's are already available for 800 Euro. When I find a good vendor, I'll buy. Maybe in Germany. I live 30 Km from Aachen, so ...

    About the Amp: The AV and DVD should be the same brand. I think I'll go for the Denon 2105 together with the 1910 and use the DVI interface (1080i). But I'm not sure if that interface is so much better than the RGB, which is already really really excellent on my 42pf9966.

    Other candidates are the Yamaha 750 or 1500, the Marantz 4500 or 5500 or the Onkyo 602 or 702. Those receivers are more or less the same. The Yamaha has a DVD player that plays MPEG4 (also interesting). And for the moment I have a complete Marantz set Amp PM711AV, Tuner, DVD CD-635E (player of the year in 1996 I believe) which is already more than 10 years old and still works very good (only dolby surround with a couple of DSP's).

    Which one would you pick ?? ;)

    I'm still waiting for a response of philips. But I don't think there is a solution for my questions.

    Greetz
    Lem
     
  10. Wasabi

    Wasabi
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,188
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    SBC (Swedish Born Chinese)/lived in UK since 96, C
    Ratings:
    +32
    Lem,

    I haven't heard the Genie, but over at the speaker forum it is a favourite because of the really good sound and design for a very good price.

    It seems that there is a concensus that Genie is worth the extra over Kef's. I would say if you can find it for 1000euros, then it is a great price indeed.

    Since you want a dvd player with dvi output and keep the same brand for the amp, that does indeed limit your choices.

    If you can afford, really try and go up a level and pick the 2805 as it offers so much more over the 2105 including a very good room calibration, sharc32bits dsp processors, audio delay, wide cross over filters, video up to component conversion, really good internal components and a excellent powerful, musical and dynamic sound.

    With the compoenents above, I think you will have a very very good set up indeed.

    Wasabi
     
  11. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    DVI is not a must. Depens also on what Philips is answering me.

    MS Genies for 995 Euro on www.bestekeus.nl
    Just gotta ask for the stands, need 2 of them.

    And they have a nice deal for the Marantz
    Marantz SR5500 + DV6500 for 945 Euro.

    Lem
     
  12. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    And I find the 2805 is too expensive.
    Then you better go for the Yamaha 750 or even the 1500

    Lem
     
  13. Wasabi

    Wasabi
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,188
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    SBC (Swedish Born Chinese)/lived in UK since 96, C
    Ratings:
    +32
    Ok, since 2805 is too expensive for you, out of the ones you have mentioned, I would def go for 1500.

    Wasabi
     
  14. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Speakers are important, and with the MS Genie I think it's OK.

    I heared the 2105 in a local shop, together with the Kef 2005.2. Nice, but MS was better (heard it with a HK 330).
    Is the 2805 expensive ? ... Yes and no, but how far should you go.
    So that's a range I put out for myself, 600 Euro for a receiver.

    Yamaha is also one of my favorites.
    The Marantz 7400 is the same as the 2805. How about the Marantz package. I don't see many reviews of it.

    Leaves the Kenwood X9080 and the Pioneer VSX1014.
    Or is that a different league than the Yamaha 1500?

    Greetz
    Lem
     
  15. Wasabi

    Wasabi
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,188
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    SBC (Swedish Born Chinese)/lived in UK since 96, C
    Ratings:
    +32
    There are not bad amps of those you mentioned, and Onkyo x02 and Pioneer 1014 are really really good amps, soundwise and are def on par with 1500 (some might even say its better, but its all down to personal taste in sound and branding I reckon), but there's really a trend with audio delay feature from the brands, as they recognise that lip sync problems are wide. In particular plasma owners suffers from it, but of course other telly sources. And the problem comes from dvd films, sky etc. The audio delay allows you to manually align the sound with the lip movements.

    Based on that, I would rather choose an amp that has that feature, which now many members here are also doing now.

    This narrows down your list of amps to Yamaha 750/1500 and Marantz 5500.

    Out of those three, I would choose the 1500, its a league up on 750 and 5500, and a very complete amp for the money.

    btw, i've noticed you mentioned onkyo 702 in your list, and if that can be had for 600euros then that is a truly a bargain if you can live without the audio delay. 702 is really fighting with e.g. denon 2805/ pioneer 2014/ yamaha 2500 price wise.

    so, based on your price information, I would choose 1500 if I thought audio delay is important, and 702 if its not.

    Wasabi
     
  16. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks Wasabi for your feedback.

    The onkyo is almost 800 Euro, so that rules out the Onkyo 702.
    So it's Yamaha 1500 or the Marantz 5500. Have to check the specs again to make a final decision.

    What are reliable online shops in Germany for the Yamaha? Anyone good experience with one.

    I also heard on a Belgian Forum that somebody had the Celestion AVP speaker set. It is said to be better as the Kef's 2005.2 Wow, so is the MS Genie.
    You can find them here: http://www.hifi-schluderbacher.de/oeffentlich/produktdetail.cfm?artid=304
    Cheap(er) !!!

    Is it any good? Have to check this.

    Greetz,
    Lem.
     
  17. Wasabi

    Wasabi
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,188
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    SBC (Swedish Born Chinese)/lived in UK since 96, C
    Ratings:
    +32
    Speakers
    Celestion AVP is quite an old speaker package now, and yes it is a good one, but Kef is definitely better from what I've read on this and Swedish forums during the years. For every one Celestion AVP owner there are probably 100 Kef 2005 owner, and that must mean something. And regarding reviews, the Kef's has got astonishing reviews from both British/Swedish/German magazines throughout the years.

    Here are some Kef reviews
    http://www.kef.com/reviews/ukreviews03.htm

    Here is a German test of them both from the famous Areadvd site -
    http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/celestionavp305.shtml
    http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/kefkht2005mk2.shtml

    But even Kef's had to be beaten and the newer MS Genie seems to be the new king.

    If you want a speakers in a smaller budget, do check out Canton CD.1's which has got some really really good reviews here on the forum and to a bargain price too - see here - http://www.preissuchmaschine.de/psm_frontend/main.asp?produkt=311344
    and check these German retailers as well for the Canton CD1's:
    http://www.hififabrik.de/
    http://www.tenspot.de/

    Amps
    Good retailers according to Swedish forum (the Swedes are massive buyers of home cinema stuff from German retailers due to huge price differences) - mediacheckpoint, hifi-regler, hififabrik, digitalo, technikdirekt, tsn-cd, all ending with .de

    Payment - usually advance payments through banktransfers, credit cards or cash on delivery.

    Soundwise - There could be an advantage that Marantz suits Mourdant Shorts speakers better as they belong to the same parent group, hence MS use Marantz amps as reference, but, Yamaha is well known to sound good to most speaker brands, and looking at the Swedish forum, the 1500/2500 owner's speakers ranges from e.g. Dynaudio, B&W, Kef, Canton, Dali, Monitor Audio, JMLab to Mourdant Shorts, so I don't think you will have any problem whatsoever combining 1500 with Genies. But Marantz is well known for being such a good allrounder, and the 7400 is a beast to a bargain price, but for the new x500 series, we all are waiting for prices to drop a bit before many are jumping on, but I think there is no doubt that x500 series will improve.

    But between 1500 and 5500 I would definitely choose 1500, and for beginners their automatic calibration tool is a advantage.

    But of course, demo is always the best way to go.

    Wasabi
     
  18. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    It's getting a long story. Hope people like the going through the complete choice. Hope it helps them too. So thanks Wasabi. :)

    I'll order the MS Genie. Including 2 stands it will cost me 1044 Euro, which is a good price I think.

    I also checked the 2 new Marantz models 5500 en 7500. Only difference is the THX label and some extra in/outs. That's not so important. And the Yamaha has only the tool callibration tool as an advantage. But the Genie set has also such a tool included.

    Depends on availability, price and maybe the better accomanying DVD player.

    Greetz,
    Lem
     
  19. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    oh, and 5 years warranty on the Genie set.
    That's Nice.

    Lem
     
  20. Wasabi

    Wasabi
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,188
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    SBC (Swedish Born Chinese)/lived in UK since 96, C
    Ratings:
    +32
    Lem,

    7500 has the automatic room calibration too, although appearantly its not that good really, Yamaha's is not the best but better than Marantz one.

    Here is a compare list
    5500 vs 7500 vs 1500
    Watts 7x90 vs 7x105 vs 7x120 - but it must be said that Marantz are one of the few brands that outputs 90% of watts mentioned, and Yamaha has had the reputation of being week at 5 channel output when tested in the lab, but this article proves people wrong - audioholicsbenchmarktest

    THX - No vs Yes vs Yes
    DTS 96/24 - Yes vs Yes vs Yes
    CSII - Yes vs Yes vs Yes (really good for Mono and 2channel music)
    192 kHz/24-Bit DAC - Yes vs Yes vs Yes
    Variable x-over - Yes vs Yes vs Yes(9band for Yamaha, Marantz I don't know)
    Pure Direct - Yes vs Yes vs Yes
    upconversion to comp- Yes vs Yes vs Yes
    time base corrector - No vs Yes vs not known
    Room calibration - No vs Yes vs Yes
    Lip sync - Yes vs Yes vs Yes
    full pre outs - 8ch vs 8ch vs 9ch
    Multiroom audio - Yes vs Yes vs Yes (Yamaha 3zone, Marantz 2zone)
    Multiroom video - No vs Yes vs Yes
    Dolby Headphone - Yes vs Yes vs Yes (Yamaha's proprietry = very good one)
    RS232C - Yes vs Yes vs Yes

    I guess, that 5500 probably has most things you need including great sound, but again, 1500 for nearly the same money has a few more features that are useful if you intend to create a multiroom, including sending out a videosignal in room 2 as well, and Yamaha DSP is the benchmark, and that you could expand with a 9channel full preout. I guess probably its just a good feelgood factor to have as much features as possible, but of course sound is the most important, and you will see that both brands have very satisfied customers. Difficult choice then?

    What audioholics say about the custom install flexibility:
    "Custom Installation Flexibility
    The RX-V1500 also has some cool features that make it easy to achieve flexible custom installation in three different rooms (zones) of the home. Zone 2 power amplifier assignability and speaker terminals mean that Zone 2 can be fully independent with its own 2-channel power, while you still enjoy 5.1-channel sound in the main room. The video signal can be output to Zone 2 as well. Zone 3 has its own volume control, and there is an IR port for remote control capability and a trigger output for automatic power-on of other components. There is also an RS-232C interface for using a touch-screen controller or a PC to configure the receiver."

    source - http://www.audioholics.com/cedia/cedia2004/yamahaRX-V1500receiver.php

    What is the price difference between 5500 and 1500? (assume that 7500 is expensive).

    Wasabi
     
  21. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I also did a comparison yesterday. Prices are more or less the same, around 600 Euro. The Marantz is maybe 20 Euro cheaper, so no real argument to buy Marantz.

    But I'm tended to go to Yamaha. It's THX select, and indeed the DSP of Yamaha was the reference 10 years ago already.

    I don't use Multi-Room, but you never know. And Room callibration could be missed, because the MS Genie also has it.

    The 7500 is about 800 Euro, so over the limit.

    First get my Genie Set next week, and in the mean time, check the German suppliers what they have on stock.

    Greetz
    Lem
     
  22. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I was just checking your link and took a look at the back of the Yamaha. I see the front, back and center connections. And there is a sub pre out and in. But where is the Sub woofer connection. Or am I getting blind?

    Lem
     
  23. Wasabi

    Wasabi
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,188
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    SBC (Swedish Born Chinese)/lived in UK since 96, C
    Ratings:
    +32
    Lem,

    The subwoofer pre-out is the connection you should use, as you will be using the amp in the sub.

    Wasabi
     
  24. Wasabi

    Wasabi
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,188
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    SBC (Swedish Born Chinese)/lived in UK since 96, C
    Ratings:
    +32
    Lem,

    The subwoofer pre-out is the connection you should use, as you will be using the amp in the sub.

    So is it 1500 or 2500?

    Wasabi
     
  25. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Not sure yet. 2500 probably not, over the line price wise.
    It are both descent amps. Did also send a mail to MS to know what they recommend. It's be still 2 weeks before I get the MS.

    I'll keep you uptodate.

    Greetz
    Lem
     
  26. Tejstar

    Tejstar
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2002
    Messages:
    22,813
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +1,082
    I'm pretty sure that the genie's come with 2 year warranty. Tons of Fun should know!
     
  27. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Well Tejstar, Where I bought the Genie set, they stated that warranty is 5 years, so. Got this confirmed per mail

    Same about the price.
    Original price is about 1350 Euro, as distributer in Belguim says. And look at which price I a got it.

    Check it out:
    http://www.bestekeus.nl/shop/product_info.php/products_id/7815

    So maybe tons of fun could explain that?

    Hope to have it next week or so.


    Greetz
    Lem
     
  28. Wasabi

    Wasabi
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,188
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    SBC (Swedish Born Chinese)/lived in UK since 96, C
    Ratings:
    +32
    I guess another example of UK being ripped off, or could it be that MS stands for 2 years and the retailer throws in another 3 years?

    It's a very good price you got the Genie for ;D

    Wasabi
     
  29. lemke

    lemke
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    OH yes indeed a very good price. That's 400 Euro, maybe a bit less, because most shops give some (10%) reduction.

    Today I also went to a shop nearby. They had the Marantz 7400, brand new and never used. Because of the new 7500, could get it for 699 Euro.
    I'm realy tempted. Yamaha is a 100 to 150 Euro cheaper, and is also very very good (as it seems). But maybe I can make a deal with that guy and go for 650 Euro. For those extra 100 Euro, I should maybe go for the Marantz 7400 ... I think. Matches the MS better .. maybe ... or not, who knows.

    Just have to check the dept of the 7400. It's really deep and I'm not sure if it fits my table.

    Greetz,
    Lem.
     
  30. Wasabi

    Wasabi
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,188
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    SBC (Swedish Born Chinese)/lived in UK since 96, C
    Ratings:
    +32
    699euros for 7400, is 200euros less than what guys here in UK can get it for, based on that, if it was me, I would feel pretty awful having paid such a high price for a amp that has been replaced, no matter how good it is.

    1500 is an equally good amp, which is newer and cheaper.

    But that of course is just my personal opinion, again, as you said, Marantz matches MS better, but I am very sure that it will suit Yamaha too.

    Is there a dealer that has the 1500 and Genie where you live, which you can demo?

    Wasabi
     

Share This Page

Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice