New home theatre set up

rajeevbansal

Novice Member
Hello, I am very new to AV setups but have been working on a home theatre set-up for last couple of months. I have double garage of near 6 by 6 m, and one half will have pool table and the other half will be home theatre (no wall in between though). With my research and some professional input, I shortlisted Denon X3600H amplifier (not bought yet) for a 5.1.4 setup. The fronts are standalone, and top and rear in-wall.
I was settled on MA Silver 300 front speakers, C150 for center, MA C265-FX for the four atmos, MA WSS230 for rear speakers and SVS PB2000 Pro for sub. However, I saw open box deals and bought Silver 500 for front and four of MA C380-FX for atmos. I know that this may not be the best way to get speakers. Now I am concerned after some reading that Denon X3600H may not be strong enough amplifier for these power hungry speakers, especially Silver 500s. I have tried Denon X3600H, compared it to X4500H and did not notice any difference. Will Silver 500 and C380-FX be fine for the space, and is Denon X3600H a suitable amplifier to drive all of them. Also, I feel C350 may be better suited to go with Silver 500, rather than C150. Many thanks.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
The Silvers can be a hard taskmaster for some receivers and the more speakers you add to your layout the more the power if diluted and difficult speakers may have trouble in very heavy active scenes. With nine speakers being driven the actual power available may be as low as 50 watts per channel. You would have to have the 6500 or 8500 models to get that extra bit of power and they are a considerable cost over the 3600.

It's possible though, because the 3600 has a full set of pre-outs, to add power amps to drive the front three which will give the power delivery required and take the burden off the 3600 which in turn will then have more power available to give the remaining connected speakers. It is certainly a cheaper and often better option than going up the receiver ladder.
 

rajeevbansal

Novice Member
The Silvers can be a hard taskmaster for some receivers and the more speakers you add to your layout the more the power if diluted and difficult speakers may have trouble in very heavy active scenes. With nine speakers being driven the actual power available may be as low as 50 watts per channel. You would have to have the 6500 or 8500 models to get that extra bit of power and they are a considerable cost over the 3600.

It's possible though, because the 3600 has a full set of pre-outs, to add power amps to drive the front three which will give the power delivery required and take the burden off the 3600 which in turn will then have more power available to give the remaining connected speakers. It is certainly a cheaper and often better option than going up the receiver ladder.
Thank you, that makes sense. Can you please suggest one as a prototype that may fit in this setup. Shall I leave sub with the Denon receiver (which takes some power I suppose) and use amplifier for front three speakers. Many thanks
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Thank you, that makes sense. Can you please suggest one as a prototype that may fit in this setup. Shall I leave sub with the Denon receiver (which takes some power I suppose) and use amplifier for front three speakers. Many thanks
I've no experience of power amps but use a integrated stereo amp with my Denon X6200 to power the front speakers. Same applies as to power amps as it relieves the receiving of driving the fronts. Stereo amps need the ability to have HT by-pass and they can prove expensive and is only better if you have separate music sources going direct to that amp. The reason I have a stereo amp is because I was very disappointed with the Denon's stereo music abilities and wished to use the same front speakers.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Now I am concerned after some reading that Denon X3600H may not be strong enough amplifier for these power hungry speakers, especially Silver 500s. I have tried Denon X3600H, compared it to X4500H and did not notice any difference. Also, I feel C350 may be better suited to go with Silver 500, rather than C150. Many thanks.
You should pick the C350 definitely and make sure you get it on free on air as high as possible to seated ear height. Think it as a heart of your speaker system and put some effort for the positioning!

Not sure where you heard they would be power hungry speakers, maybe the old ones were but the new ones not so much. Measured data doesn´t support such claim either. The Silver 500 impedance may drop tad lower at top, but it´s in the tweeter range which shouldn`t be problem. Sensitivity in the ~90db range is on the higher side also for the C350, S500, C380-FX. The latter you need to use in bi-pole mode if you want to do Atmos. For the surrounds you could check some other models than the super slim in-wall if you aren´t restricted to it.

My estimate of the Silver 300's sensitivity was 88.8dB(B)/2.83V/m, which is close to the specified 90dB. The Silver 300's nominal impedance is specified as 8 ohms, and its impedance magnitude (fig.1, solid trace) remains between 5 and 9 ohms through almost the entire audioband. Although the minimum magnitude is 3.6 ohms between 150 and 170Hz and there is a combination of 5.4 ohms and –39° at 97Hz, this speaker won't tax the amplifiers with which it is used.
If you are going to add poweramp then X3600H makes sense to keep the cost down. But if you aren`t going to add it yet, then X4500H will cost 200£ extra and is bit stronger with lower impedance loads.

X4600H & X6600H with HDMI 2.1 (no confirmation yet) will be introduced at around Sep/Oct, X1600 - X3600H will continue to next year. But clearly you aren´t going to wait until summer for prices to go down.

Iota`s poweramp is well received and very powerfull 70lbs weighting big boy! 190w x 7ch @4ohm measured so good amount of headroom to drive big systems to ear bleeding level.



For 6x6 room you could also consider the PB3000 model which one member is selling now and you could chat about the price. Warranty transfer should be possible for SVS products.
 

rajeevbansal

Novice Member
Thank you for so many good tips. I have never spent anything like this on AV, but am indulging myself for once.

C350 will definitely makes sense, and I will most likely have an installer fine tuning the set-up.

I didn't realise that power amplifiers add so much to the cost, will IOTAVX PA3 not go along with X3600H (it only costs a third of IOTAVX AVXP1). Otherwise X4500H will be an easy upgrade (and the price has gone down by £200 since I last checked!!). I am not after playing loud, just at levels as in cinemas at the most, but don't want sound fading in high demand passages, rather the other way round.
I felt that rear atmos with bigger drivers will compensate for smaller rear surrounds. The space in wall for rears is 10cm, though WSS430 instead of WSS230 could be an option? Dont want to have rears outside wall. I am not sure about going further on subs, may be add one more few years later.

Thanks again for taking time to reply.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thank you for so many good tips. I have never spent anything like this on AV, but am indulging myself for once.

C350 will definitely makes sense, and I will most likely have an installer fine tuning the set-up.

I didn't realise that power amplifiers add so much to the cost, will IOTAVX PA3 not go along with X3600H (it only costs a third of IOTAVX AVXP1). Otherwise X4500H will be an easy upgrade (and the price has gone down by £200 since I last checked!!). I am not after playing loud, just at levels as in cinemas at the most, but don't want sound fading in high demand passages, rather the other way round.
I felt that rear atmos with bigger drivers will compensate for smaller rear surrounds. The space in wall for rears is 10cm, though WSS430 instead of WSS230 could be an option? Dont want to have rears outside wall. I am not sure about going further on subs, may be add one more few years later.

Thanks again for taking time to reply.
Yep, better to start with X4500H which if you can pull the plug on this weekend you can get it for 799£ with 5year warranty! Add it to cart and voila. :)

Pick the WSS230 then as it has similar dome tweeters. Remember to mount them so that tweeters are about seated ear height so you get some separation between surround channels and in-ceiling speakers.
 

rajeevbansal

Novice Member
Yep, better to start with X4500H which if you can pull the plug on this weekend you can get it for 799£ with 5year warranty! Add it to cart and voila. :)

Pick the WSS230 then as it has similar dome tweeters. Remember to mount them so that tweeters are about seated ear height so you get some separation between surround channels and in-ceiling speakers.
Thank you, definitely. You do have eye for deals. I am sure there will be time when power amplifier will follow, but this should be a decent start hopefully. Not sure if there is much that will happen for few months now, stay safe. Many thanks.
 

rajeevbansal

Novice Member
Hello Gasp 3621
I hope you wouldn't mind a follow-up question. I now have Denon AVR4500X and all the speakers, but not the TV yet. I already have a Blu-ray player.

I am thinking if I get good smart TV then I should not need a media player for streaming Netflix / Prime Video etc. Would you agree. I suppose the TV I buy should have HDR+10 / Dolby Vision to get proper home theatre sound (most good quality TVs have that), and then I do not need separate media player?

And is that right that Blu-ray will connect to Denon via HDMI and does not have to connect to TV. Denon will then send video stream through to TV and audio to all the speakers. Many thanks.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Hello Gasp 3621
I hope you wouldn't mind a follow-up question. I now have Denon AVR4500X and all the speakers, but not the TV yet. I already have a Blu-ray player.

I am thinking if I get good smart TV then I should not need a media player for streaming Netflix / Prime Video etc. Would you agree. I suppose the TV I buy should have HDR+10 / Dolby Vision to get proper home theatre sound (most good quality TVs have that), and then I do not need separate media player?

And is that right that Blu-ray will connect to Denon via HDMI and does not have to connect to TV. Denon will then send video stream through to TV and audio to all the speakers. Many thanks.
Hello. I will quote straight from article so you understand it best.

The best way to connect a Blu-ray player to the rest of your system is also the simplest—a single HDMI cable from the player's HDMI output to one of the HDMI inputs on you're A/V receiver or preamp/processor. (Of course, you'll also connect the HDMI output from the AVR or pre/pro to the TV.)

As for the tv those Dolby Vision and HDR+10 are more for picture quality, nothing to do with sound. I think you also need Dolby Vision support for bluray player then. I`m really not familiar with these new formats cause i couldn`t care less about them. I still use plasma (1080p) and projector (1080p). :) If you feel the tv picture quality and size is fine then just enjoy. If you want new one, then get the largest you can afford! 65" is absolute minium these days, the prices of larger ones has come down so think carefully! You won´t regret going larger one esp. if you sit bit more far away! Of course projector + screen would be most ideal for movies. Nothing beats the large picture experience. :)

To see the extra detail of 4K, you can sit closer — 1 to 1-1/2 times the screen size.

TV Screen sizeViewing distance range for 4K
40"3.3-5 feet
43"3.6-5.4 feet
50"4.2-6.3 feet
55"4.6-6.9 feet
60"5-7.5 feet
65"5.4-8.1 feet
70"5.8-8.75 feet
75"6.3-9.4 feet
80"6.7-10 feet
85"7.1-10.6 feet



You can ask here, make a new thread and give your budget + watching distance. The guys will help you to pick best bang for buck tv. :)

 

rajeevbansal

Novice Member
Hello. I will quote straight from article so you understand it best.

The best way to connect a Blu-ray player to the rest of your system is also the simplest—a single HDMI cable from the player's HDMI output to one of the HDMI inputs on you're A/V receiver or preamp/processor. (Of course, you'll also connect the HDMI output from the AVR or pre/pro to the TV.)

As for the tv those Dolby Vision and HDR+10 are more for picture quality, nothing to do with sound. I think you also need Dolby Vision support for bluray player then. I`m really not familiar with these new formats cause i couldn`t care less about them. I still use plasma (1080p) and projector (1080p). :) If you feel the tv picture quality and size is fine then just enjoy. If you want new one, then get the largest you can afford! 65" is absolute minium these days, the prices of larger ones has come down so think carefully! You won´t regret going larger one esp. if you sit bit more far away! Of course projector + screen would be most ideal for movies. Nothing beats the large picture experience. :)

To see the extra detail of 4K, you can sit closer — 1 to 1-1/2 times the screen size.

TV Screen sizeViewing distance range for 4K
40"3.3-5 feet
43"3.6-5.4 feet
50"4.2-6.3 feet
55"4.6-6.9 feet
60"5-7.5 feet
65"5.4-8.1 feet
70"5.8-8.75 feet
75"6.3-9.4 feet
80"6.7-10 feet
85"7.1-10.6 feet



You can ask here, make a new thread and give your budget + watching distance. The guys will help you to pick best bang for buck tv. :)


Thanks for your reply. The Blu-ray part is clear. I will buy a 77-85" TV.

What I was trying to understand is sound from TV to Denon will be good Dolby sound or is it necessary to get a media player as well.
 

rajeevbansal

Novice Member
Thanks again. The Blu-ray connection point information was useful.
But about buying dedicated medial player for streaming net content or just using TV to stream video and feed sound to home theatre, I did find information on few sites like this (https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/articles/00007061). I think eARC is even better than ARC and is available on some models from 2019 onwards. I suppose media player is not needed. Thought will share this, thank you.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks for your reply. The Blu-ray part is clear. I will buy a 77-85" TV.

What I was trying to understand is sound from TV to Denon will be good Dolby sound or is it necessary to get a media player as well.
Thanks again. The Blu-ray connection point information was useful.
But about buying dedicated medial player for streaming net content or just using TV to stream video and feed sound to home theatre, I did find information on few sites like this (https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/articles/00007061). I think eARC is even better than ARC and is available on some models from 2019 onwards. I suppose media player is not needed. Thought will share this, thank you.
I think most new tv´s have the streaming services (Netflix, HBO etc) so no need to buy any extra players. @StefanBFC might be able to confirm this. The article shows you the connection which is with hdmi cable so very straightforward. For highest sound quality (lossless) blurays are the way to go, but Dolby Digital Plus is not bad either with streaming services.
 

StefanBFC

Well-known Member
I think most new tv´s have the streaming services (Netflix, HBO etc) so no need to buy any extra players. @StefanBFC might be able to confirm this. The article shows you the connection which is with hdmi cable so very straightforward. For highest sound quality (lossless) blurays are the way to go, but Dolby Digital Plus is not bad either with streaming services.
Yes pretty much all TV's now have Netflix and Amazon prime for streaming, if you use Sky for Netflix this currently doesn't support HDR so its better used with the TV app anyway.

If you're in the look out for a new tele, put up a new post in the TV forums.

Good choice of speakers, I'll agree with @Gasp3621 the C350 centre is a must with the 500's. Stick with the 4500, see how you get on then decide if you want a power-amp to add later-on.
 

rajeevbansal

Novice Member
Yes pretty much all TV's now have Netflix and Amazon prime for streaming, if you use Sky for Netflix this currently doesn't support HDR so its better used with the TV app anyway.

If you're in the look out for a new tele, put up a new post in the TV forums.

Good choice of speakers, I'll agree with @Gasp3621 the C350 centre is a must with the 500's. Stick with the 4500, see how you get on then decide if you want a power-amp to add later-on.
Thank you, read your reply just now. It is a good reassurance that you agree with choice of speakers as it was all based on internet search. Cant wait to open box for SVS PB2000-Pro and C350, I am running in Silver 500s for now, playing Spotify on AVR-4500X in my living room. Nice!! Thanks
 

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