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New "HD-ready" plasmas totally inpractical?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by darrens, Jun 21, 2005.

  1. darrens

    darrens
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    Perhaps I'm being daft but it seems to me that all the current panels advertising themselves as "HD Ready" have one major flaw. Assuming that many people like me are buying it with a view to watching Sky HD, and also watch DVDs then it seems that none of these panles can actually cope with that configuration.

    Why? Only one HDMI socket. So which do you plug into it - the DVD or Sky HD?

    Am I missing something or does this tiny flaw makes these panels totally impractical?.
     
  2. SonOfSony

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    There are boxes to give you additional HDMI connections.
     
  3. darrens

    darrens
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    But how do you switch between them? Do I have to program my remote to switch an additional box? Not exactly elegant and it means that I need line of sight with the switcher to.

    I also don't really want switchers in my signal path.
     
  4. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    That's a good reason to wait a while for second-generation HDTV plasmas to arrive. There's always a price to be paid for being first. There probably be much to watch in HD during the next 12 months anyway.
     
  5. chimpmagnet

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    The 42PD7200 has a HDMI and a DVI input. Surely this will help alleviate some of the issues?
     
  6. foz

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    the hdmi switching boxes have there own remote control although i no what you mean about not wanting swithchers in your signal path
     
  7. Ekko Star

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    It's an all digital signal so switcher in the path should not present too many problems I would have thought. However, you are right, it's like buying a TV with only one scart at the moment.
     
  8. hornydragon

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    why on earth would you use HDMI for DVD? DVD is an SD source, not HiDef so why waste your HDMI socket on SD material? soon enogh AV amps with 3-4 HDMI inouts will be available
     
  9. Ekko Star

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    Actually that's very true Horny, a good set of analogue components from a good player might actually give a you better picture than merely due to a HDMI connection.
     
  10. k0rn

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    I totally agree with that. :smashin:
     
  11. reklor

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    but surely hi def dvd will need a hdmi?.........thats only around 12 months away over here. Its worth noting that some of the latest LCD/Plasma from Toshiba etc have 2xhdmi and component (and RGB scart). Personaly im not going to upgrade until the end of next year........by which time -1, Hi Def TV (42" plasma will be around the £1500 mark) with multi (at least 2x) HDMI. 2, Sky HI Def will be cheaper. 3, Hi Def DVD will be out. 4, Home Cinema Receivers with HDMI switching readily available. 5, PS3 will be out.

    Thats 5 very good reasons to wait 18 months.....but its going to be VERY hard ;)
     
  12. darrens

    darrens
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    I have been led to believe (perhaps wrongly) by all the press that HDMI is far superior to component even for SD material. I remember when the Pioneer 435 first came out all the reviews said that the HDMI connection was a breathe of fresh air.

    Even now, the general consensus appears to be that HDMI is generally superior to component. Have they all got it wrong?
     
  13. Ekko Star

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    Technically being all digital connection yes it should be better. A lot of that talk was with the 435 partnered to an 868 if I recall. Which is without doubt a very good combo.

    Thing is you have lesser HDMI players such as the Samsung and the Panny S97. These models sport the connection and will also upscale SD material. How good they do that is your own opinion. Being HDMI doesn't mean they do it well or better than the scaler in your progressive panel.

    Because it is early days for HDMI, a quality analogue YUV from a good player and letting the panel do the scaling can and sometimes result in a more preferential image. This is all down to opinion, but the difference in quite a few cases is closer than what you might imagine.
     
  14. hornydragon

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    On pioneer that is true (partly because the media box scart and component inputs are CRAP) but HDMI is mainly marketing BS designed to get you to buy a new DVD player does a film on DVD look better than one broadcast on sky?
    And when you say the general consensous who do you mean manufacturers? Delaers? Magazines? or owners?
     
  15. darrens

    darrens
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    Magazines

    Ekko, thanks for the reply
     
  16. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Still goes through quite a bit of processing and can look better if the digital image processing is better than the analogue image processing.....................So it comes back to the same old question of where to do processing and what to use one advantage of a handfull of HDMI DVD players is the 4:2:2 output available in pure interlaced ofrm that can be sent to a scaler for processing this meands all the DVD player has to do is convert MPEG-2 data to Video making it the purist form of video transport while still being totally legal (SDi does this to but isnt 100% within the rules)
     
  17. thornton

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    I don't agree with much of the above. I bought my PV500 specifically to deal with hidef stuff in the full knowledge it has one HDMI and one component input and am very happy with the plan. The following is pertinent.

    1. If you want more than one HDMI input but NOT an expensive HDMI-switching amp, there are two key makers of HDMI switching gear with stuff on the market already - Gefen and Cinemateq. They are not pretty but at least one and possibly both (I forget) has a magic eye option so you can both hide them and remote control them. So that deals with that.

    2. If you want to use more than one HDMI input with an HDMI switching amp - you have all kinds of choices ranging from the Panasonic 2 input job to the Denon A11XV with 3 and all kinds of upconversion. Depends on what you want to spend. I bough the Denon 2105 purely for 5.1 audio switching and output. for now.

    3. My own experience was based on expecting to do (1) above in the short term and then (2) in the long term when one can get an amp like the Denon A11 for three figure money. Having got the TV I have found the following. With the Panasonic S97 DVD player, plugged into both component and HDMI for now (I do not have anything else worth plugging in to those slots). I CANNOT tell the difference (on average over about 20DVDs played so far) between the picture quality from the component and HDMI routes! Most of the DVDs have a picture of identical and fantastic quality over both routes; a couple of more recent ones looked slightly better on HDMI and some older ones looked better on component. These comments applied with the S97 set to 720p or 1080i, and before anyone says it, I am not blind and am very picky about PQ.

    4. So I have stuffed all my plans for switch boxes and HDMI-switching boxes/amps etc. and reckon that until I need 3 or more hi def inputs I do not need to worry about it. Reckon this will be about 2010 when the BBC gets round to hi def.

    5. Other issue now is that SKY will output at least some of its HD stuff on component after all, but that is subject of several other threads!!

    So I reckon that worrying about >1 HDMI input is bottom of list.
     
  18. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    thornton i agree mate I keep trying to tell people HDMI for DVD isnt worth it HDMI is just to appease hollywood not to improve PQ but my view wont sell lots of HDMI euqipped DVD players will it ;)
     
  19. ash

    ash
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    What do they do in Japan? Everything there is HDTV.
     
  20. greyhorse

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    First generation of sky boxes will have component feeds anyway.
     
  21. darrens

    darrens
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    Thanks to everybody for their views on whether HDMI is worth it on DVDs. Certainly would help things ....

    ...except now I have to search around for what people are talking about with Sky HD being component. If true then just replace "HDMI" with "component" in my first post and the worry still applies ;)
     
  22. dilsher

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    :D ..well then, get a bloody mega mighty scaler - like a Lumagen HDP right?..and you can plug in 10 different things and output via one HDMI cable. thatll do the trick!!
     
  23. Sulis

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    How many wires do you want going into your plasma anyway? Personally, I can't wait to just have everything going through one wire...
     
  24. tutu

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    Take your pick from the available models, or wait for what is around the corner. Their is always something around the corner, and if you are like me you often go without upgrading for a long time because of it!!

    Everybody has probably heard this too much already - but my PV500 that I received yesterday.. it is just outstanding.
     
  25. Welwynnick

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    Where the source and the display are digital, you would naturally expect a digital interconnection to be best, but digital is not more perfect than analogue, you have to compare like with like. It is misleading to make a blanket statement that HDMI or DVI gives better PQ than component or RGB.

    Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. It depends on the implementation of the interface in the equipment and how it's configured in the system. The Pio 868 & 435 combo is well known, but ironically is a bad example. That's because the player and the display do not support a common format that allows one or the other to work at it's native resolution. They can both interface at 720p, but that leaves BOTH devices scaling the image, which you want to avoid.

    An additional unwanted scaling stage may degrade the PQ more than an digital/analogue stage, which can work very well, AND support an interface that runs at the native resolution of at least one of the units.

    Which configuration gives the best PQ will depend on the implementation of a particular system. Journalists should know better than to make what will be widely read blanket statements about the superiority of one type of interface, but sadly they don't always seem to.

    HDMI is certainly the way forwards, but it's general implementation is not yet as well developed as analogue, and if it's going to take over from scart, then TVs should certainly have at least two or three sockets. That would be something to look forward to: no need to support multiple inputs of differents formats of both video and audio signals.

    One source; one lead.

    regards, Nick
     
  26. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    In anything but a very bloody good setup, component will give as good a picture quality as HDMI. It's just all that marketing BS and crap reviews written by people who don't know what they're talking about that make you question yourself when you're considering plugging something in that doesn't conform to the (insert AV mag name here) point of view.

    Pioneer Plasma TVs have issues on RGB and YUV inputs, hence the HDMI connection looking better. And the 868s YUV output is inferior to the earlier 757 IMO.

    Sky will deactivate the component outputs on their HD boxes as soon as they think they can get away with it.

    Get a scaler ;) if you want the best digital connection from DVD get an SDI mod (it is better than HDMI imo, quite noticeably in fact)
     
  27. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Ahmen Brother
     
  28. dilsher

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    Liam said: "Get a scaler if you want the best digital connection from DVD get an SDI mod (it is better than HDMI imo, quite noticeably in fact).."

    so here is another Amen... Bruvver.
     
  29. RobbieTT

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    If you look on a Pioneer Plasma in Japan or USA they have 2 HDMI sockets rather than one. No scart though... how do they manage??
     
  30. migas

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    Will these HDMI switchers be HDCP-compliant? That's a big issue for paying now a premium price for a HDCP PDP with only 1 DVI or HDMI interface. :rolleyes:
     

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