New 'Full HD' projector, but with a compromise!

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by MoFoHo, May 4, 2007.

  1. MoFoHo

    MoFoHo
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,982
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    87
    Location:
    Bradford
    Ratings:
    +412
    Hi all you wise ones! I've just made the upgrade to HD, (HDMI amp, Blu-ray player, HD-DVD player) and would like to consider upgrading from my aging Sony VPL-HS1. The 2 units I'm considering are the Panasonic PT-AE1000E, and the Sony 'Pearl' VPL-VW50. Although of course I'm quite welcome to any other suggestions, since its been quite a while since I was looking around at projectors. (incidentaly, I'd prefer NOT to have a DLP projector, I seem to be really affected by the colour wheel effect).
    HOWEVER, there is a slight problem, well for now anyways. I have always used the 'side-shot' function on my old Sony, as at the moment it is not possible for me to get a projector sited slap bang in the middle of the screen. I know its a terrible compromise, but until I relocate, siting the projector in the middle of the screen just isnt easily possible. So, can these new HD projectors 'skew' the image, (either optically or electronically) to compensate for off-centre projection? (what do the 'lens-shift' functions do? Again I do know that this is a compromise on picture quality, but if I bought a new projector I would be looking at using this unit for many years, and hopefully a more sympathetic front room in the future!
    Any suggetsions/advice?
    Thanks in advance,
    Steve.
     
  2. Critters

    Critters
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2006
    Messages:
    203
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +21
    Lens shift allows you to position the PJ off center without having to keystone, the epson TW1000 is a 1080p projector with such a feature that you should consider also.
     
  3. MoFoHo

    MoFoHo
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,982
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    87
    Location:
    Bradford
    Ratings:
    +412
    So this function optically skews the image to compensate for off-centre projection? Why isnt it just called horizontal keystone then? I notice the Panasonic can be had for a very good price on-line!
     
  4. Member 14847

    Member 14847
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Messages:
    491
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +54
    Keystone - either horizontal or vertical - is done via video processing. Lens shift mechanically moves the lens in the body of the projector.
     
  5. KelvinS1965

    KelvinS1965
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    17,077
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +8,025
    The Panasonic allows you to put the PJ well off to the side, but possibly not as far as your Sony. Until I construct my PJ lift in the ceiling, I'm using my AE1000 on the sideboard at the back of my living room. As my head would be in the way when viewing, I've put the PJ on the far left of the sideboard (roughly in line with the left edge of my screen) and there is plenty of adjustment on the lens shift to line it up with my screen.It may even go further into the corner, but TBH I've not tried...if I get chance this weekend I will and I'll post back.

    Also there is a vertical lens shift dial which allows me to line up the image with my bottom black bar and the pelmet which the screen drops down from. I have no need to use any keystone BTW.

    The AE1000 has a zoom (remote controlled too) of 1x to 2x so you can be very flexible in terms of distance from the screen. Mine works from the back of my 6 metre long room, albeit onto a 120" screen (but I could zoom back if I had a smaller, say 106", screen).
     
  6. MoFoHo

    MoFoHo
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,982
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    87
    Location:
    Bradford
    Ratings:
    +412
    Thanks for that info Kelvin.:thumbsup: I've downloaded the manual and it says that it can accomodate up to a 40% horizontal and 100% vertical offset from the centre of the screen. So the lens shift is essentially an optical keystone adjust, to prevent the image looking skewed? All I need to do now is try and find it at a decent price! What do you think to the unit Kelvin, good with HD material?
     
  7. KelvinS1965

    KelvinS1965
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    17,077
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +8,025
    Yes, it is a kind of optical keystone if you like. I don't know what the pricing is like as I got mine from Purelygadgets for £1950 (ish), just before they put the price up to £3,500.:eek:

    I only have BBCHD via my HTPC, but 'Pirates of The Carribean' recorded last Christmas is my favourite demo...you can see such detail in the backgrounds that I'd never noticed before on the DVD. FWIW BBC HD is 'only' 1440 x 1080i (anamorphic, so it gets 'streched' to widescreen by my software, or Sky HD box if you have one). A BlueRay/HD DVD player at the 'full' 1920 x 1080i/p should be even better.:thumbsup: I'm making do with SD DVD for now, but that is still really good and I don't notice it looking 'soft' unless I watch HD first.;)

    Hope that helps...I'm off to watch a film on it now it's getting dark.:D
     
  8. Sunshinewelly

    Sunshinewelly
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,074
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +462
    i have just finished watching kingdom of heaven on blueray at 1080p. what a fantastic experience that was.

    the quality of the image is amazing - this projector just gets better and beter.

    the film was also fantastic - the additional footage turned what i thought was a jumbled piece of visual candy into one of the best films i have ever seen.
     
  9. jacko5

    jacko5
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,198
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +173
    If you can stretch to it financially, consider the JVC HD1. It has excellent placement flexibility and a far superior image to the likes of the Panasonic PT-AE1000u by all accounts.
     
  10. jacko5

    jacko5
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,198
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +173
    Having just made a search on my usual price comparison website, I see that the JVC DLA-HD1 and Panasonic PT-AE 1000u can now be bought for the same price! at around £3,500.
    The best value in 1080p PJ's has to be the Sony Pearl VW50 at around £2,735 followed by the Epson EMP-TW1000 at £2,440 and the Mitsubishi HC5000 at £2,673.
     
  11. Member 14847

    Member 14847
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Messages:
    491
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +54
    Your figure on the Mitsubishi HC5000 is a little high.
     
  12. Distman

    Distman
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    The price on the HC5000 has dropped quite a bit recently, so you should be able to get a good deal in the UK.
     
  13. jacko5

    jacko5
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,198
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +173
    Wow! you're right. Prices are dropping fast. £2,115 for the HC5000 is an absolute steal.
    I have the HC5000 and I think it is a cracking projector. The sharpness on HD is incredible and SD performance via HDMI is excellent.The only niggle I have is with the dust blobs, but even then I hardly ever notice them when viewing images. I only notice them when there is a scene fade to black/dark grey.
    If the latest firmware update cures or alleviates the dust problem, this PJ has to be high on anyones list when looking for a 1080p PJ where cost is a consideration.
     
  14. MoFoHo

    MoFoHo
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,982
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    87
    Location:
    Bradford
    Ratings:
    +412
    I'd never heard of the HC5000, can it do the offset projection trick that I need? Any other comments on this unit? Its about the same price as the Panny can be bought for.
     
  15. KelvinS1965

    KelvinS1965
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    17,077
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +8,025
    I don't think it can do such a shift range as the Panny ( I looked at this model when I was choosing myself). It uses the same LCD panels I believe.

    There is a thread somewhere on either here or the AVSForum about the dust blob issue and updated firmware to solve this issue.

    Here is a link to a website with a review of the HC5000 and other interesting PJ stuff:

    http://www.cine4home.com/
     
  16. stevos

    stevos
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2004
    Messages:
    6,189
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +585
    I strongly recommend going for a projector with horizontal lens shift rather than relying on digital keystone adjustments.

    On all the projectors i have owned the second you slightly alter the digital keystone the picture becomes darker and less vived (not sure the term to use). Optical lens shift causes no reduction in the picture quality.

    In my opinion, if your going to have your projector off centre its worth paying the extra for optical lens shift.
     
  17. dave_st185

    dave_st185
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Messages:
    279
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +31
    Try http://www.projectorreviews.com/

    Art has reviewed most of the projectors you are considering and has reviewed each in a similar way, so there's a good degree of consistency accross the reviews
     
  18. jacko5

    jacko5
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,198
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +173
    The vertical lens shift on the Mitsubishi is large, but unfortunately the horizontal lens shift is relatively small, in the order of 5%. So the Panasonic 1000u would be a better choice for you if you can find it at near the Mits. price. The Epson EMP-TW1000 which can be purchased for around £2,440 has a huge vertical lens shift of +/- 96% and horizontal +/- 47%.
     
  19. broomthundle

    broomthundle
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2004
    Messages:
    44
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    You can get the panny 1000 for approx £2000 if you look around, which is an absolute steal ! What Home Cinema rated it (and the Pearl) only slightly behind the JVC one, and I have seen all three in operation - the JVC is certainly not 'substancially better'. At this kind of quality the differences are marginal, and for the street prices that all of the above projectors are available for, the flexibility of Panny1000 made it my purchase choice, and it is a fab projector.
     
  20. MoFoHo

    MoFoHo
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,982
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    87
    Location:
    Bradford
    Ratings:
    +412
    Well thanks for the advise guys, I've decided on the Panny. It seems a good projector and at a good price. As always with this hobby, unless you're a millionaire, you have to know where to draw the line! I've read rave reviews on the JVC, but it looks very big and ugly (not that the Panny doesn't look like a fan heater! lol) and is more expensive. Hopefully I'll have the new gear up and running (new screen too!:thumbsup: ) within a few weeks!
    Steve.
     
  21. jacko5

    jacko5
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,198
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +173
    Where can you get the Panasonic PT-AE 1000u for around £2,000?
    Please share the info. I am sure many potential buyers on this forum would be interested.
     
  22. Avi

    Avi
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2004
    Messages:
    13,963
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +2,064
    Having owned two of those three for several months I don't agree.

    You really start to see the difference when you have had chance to watch plenty of material in a consistent evironment. In fact it's almost like watching a different movie somtimes it's that substantial to my eyes.

    Based I my experience I would avoid a dynamic iris. :)

    AVI
     
  23. broomthundle

    broomthundle
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2004
    Messages:
    44
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    I agree the JVC does produce a 'better' picture. For me, it all comes down to the best you can get the money you can afford. I couldn't afford £3500, and I certainly couldn't see a £1500 better picture on the JVC, so the choice was clear to me.

    Either of the 3 projectors give a great picture, and I don't think anyone will be dissappointed by any of them. All we need now is some 1080P/24 to play on them....
     
  24. Avi

    Avi
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2004
    Messages:
    13,963
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +2,064
    Unfortunately I did become disappointed the more I watched hence owning more than one of the three. Already have HD DVD and BD at 1080p/24 and it looks great. :smashin:

    AVI
     
  25. jacko5

    jacko5
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,198
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +173
    AVI, you have the HD1, which of the other two did you have and in what way is the JVC HD-1 better? I would like to know because I respect your opinion and it all helps when deciding which PJ to upgrade to next.
     
  26. Avi

    Avi
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2004
    Messages:
    13,963
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +2,064
    I had the Sony Pearl. Some of the main differences IMO based on hundreds of hours viewing in my HT.

    - No dynamic iris. Take a look at the bottom of this link as it's good example of the effect a DI has on the image. Many images appeared washed out or flat on the Pearl to my eyes.

    http://www.projectiondesign.com/Default.asp?CatID=1411

    - Greater sense of image depth (3D effect)
    - blacks look blacker
    - Brightness/punch even after D65 calibration
    - Image sharpness and clarity
    - Better convergence and lens quality although this may vary by unit
    - Better HD video processing i.e. fewer artefacts with 1080i

    The Pearl is not a bad PJ by any means and can produce a great image but I was looking for more. To me the areas above justified the extra cost and I spent time with the HD1 and other PJ's from Sim2, Progectiondesign etc before I finally made the purchase.

    I aways suggest the best starting point is to go see the PJ's first hand. Take along familiar material to test and go back as many times as you need. That said you really only get to know the PJ's when you've lived with them for a while and I guess that's were these forums can help.

    At the end of the day it's what looks best to you and works for your budget. :)

    AVI
     
  27. jacko5

    jacko5
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,198
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +173
    Thanks for the informative reply AVI. I am very tempted by the HD-1, although I have never seen it and it is difficult for me to do so. I have read so many good reviews and owner opinions that I don't think it would be too much of a risk to take the plunge eventually.
    I have a Mitsubishi HC5000 and I do like the sharpness with good HD source material. I don't know whether you are familiar with this PJ, but do you think I would be disappointed with the HD-1 in this respect without seeing them side by side.
    I agree with you about dynamic irises which is my main criticism of my PJ, which is not specific to the HC5000, but dynamic iris PJs in general.
     
  28. Avi

    Avi
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2004
    Messages:
    13,963
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +2,064
    Jacko

    I'm not that familiar with the Mits so I wouldn't like to say. I believe the Mits is one of the quietest PJ's on the market and the HD1 will produce a higher noise level in operation.

    I know it's difficult but try and get a demo. PJ HiFi in Guildford have a unit in their cinema demo room and I'm sure Elliot would be happy to help. :)

    AVI
     
  29. jacko5

    jacko5
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,198
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ratings:
    +173
    AV1, In the Cine4Home review of the HD-1 he reports a 'chroma sampling error over HDMI with 576p 4.2.2 sources. Would this cause me a problem watching SD TV via HDMI from my Sky HD box do you know?
     
  30. Avi

    Avi
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2004
    Messages:
    13,963
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +2,064

    I believe this has been addressed via firmware since those early reviews. I only watch movies on the PJ including Sky HD @ 1080i and the image is very good.

    AVI
     

Share This Page

Loading...