1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

New features we would most like

Discussion in 'TAG McLaren Audio Owners' Forum' started by Thunder, Oct 24, 2004.

  1. Thunder

    Thunder
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,763
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Ratings:
    +14
    Ok, I thought it might be usefull for people to come up with some ideas about the features they would most like added to their Tag kit. As it seems that the AV processors are the most likely to be continually supported by IAG I thought I would focus on those. It might be a good idea for us to get together and e-mail IAG with the most popular ideas so they are aware that we Tag owners still exist, perhaps for a change they might listen if there are enough of us :thumbsup: My top five are as follows;
    1.) HDMI audio interface with AV32RDP/AV192R
    2.) HDMI audio/video interface with AV192R
    3.) A more automated but equally accurate method of executing TMREQ
    4.) more processing flexibility, e.g ability to add PL2X to DTS and Doldy PL2x game to DD5.1
    5.) The ability within TMREQ to assign as many filters to each speaker as wanted. E.g if you want you can use all the filters on the sub rather than being restricted to using eight on each speaker when they might not require eight.
    Of course most of these are just niggles as our TMA kit is still pretty cutting edge as I dont know of any other high end pros with HDMI yet? :D
    4
     
  2. Stevesky

    Stevesky
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2004
    Messages:
    454
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    PLIIx Games is only applicable to material that has the surrounds derived from the LR (ie. processed using Prologic II(x). The only difference between PLIIx Game and PLIIx Movie is a change in bass redirection rules.

    As for the HDMI interface the Silicon Image chipset gives two HDMI inputs, so why not have two in, and one out so you can continue the digital feed to your screen. To make it extra appealing how about a 1394 input so SACD can be fed in and then either converted to 96/24 PCM (to go via the SHARC) or fed directly to a set of DSD aware DAC's. And if we're putting the icing on the cake an SDI in/out with cross conversion to HDMI so the various SDI modified players, sat boxes etc. can be used.
     
  3. Joelc

    Joelc
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2004
    Messages:
    414
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +5
    Steve:

    I will one up you in respect of my upgrade/wish list... how about the return of TMA, Udo, John, Steve, and everyone else.

    What do you think.

    Joel
     
  4. Stevesky

    Stevesky
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2004
    Messages:
    454
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    Considering we have other jobs now (or lucky enough to be soaking up the sun in Portugal, drinking wine, changing dirty nappies etc..... :D ) then that's highly unlikely!
     
  5. audionutter

    audionutter
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2004
    Messages:
    117
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +1
    So anyone selling their black front/colour DP? Still looking from a few months ago and missed the recent one from Martin Kleiser as it is silver front/colour :rolleyes: Steve? Udo? John? Anyone???
     
  6. Thunder

    Thunder
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,763
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Ratings:
    +14
    There is a guy selling a SP for £650.00 mint nick in the classifieds, dont know how much it would work out to have it upgraded?
     
  7. life sucks

    life sucks
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    yes, i heard mr. "magic" self will make f1 amp under cambridge audio label :)

    what are you doing steve?

    regards under the sun

    pedro
     
  8. Scott Smart

    Scott Smart
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2000
    Messages:
    50
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Maidstone, Kent, England
    Ratings:
    +0
    HDMI and Windows Media Audio WMA support please...
    -Scott
     
  9. Teejoo

    Teejoo
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2004
    Messages:
    221
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Ratings:
    +3
    Things I would like:

    - DTS + PLIIx
    - possibility to adjust a + LFE channel gain if you have your front speakers set to bass limited. This way you are able to make a difference between the actual LFE channel's level and the redirected bass level.

    The nice thing about these two things is that it can be done with the current hardware. Perhaps a nice challenge for IAG software chaps!
     
  10. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    You assume IAG have software chaps....

    Anyway, I'd like the DVI switcher as I have more than one DVI source now....... As Steve says it would be best to use the HDMI chipset now and just get cables with the correct ends on them.... As for SACD well that would be really nice but very very late in the day for that one.......
    As for TMREQ, I think John would want paying for his time!
     
  11. Kenny Glasgow

    Kenny Glasgow
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    3,346
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Livingston, Scotland
    Ratings:
    +225
    Universal player, full digital switching for my AV32R :lease:
     
  12. Teejoo

    Teejoo
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2004
    Messages:
    221
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Ratings:
    +3
    I believe they do, since Barry forwarded these same request from me some time ago. On the other hand I didn't get a reply.....But perhaps they read this!
     
  13. AMCross

    AMCross
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Messages:
    5,657
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Livingston,Scotland
    Ratings:
    +187
    "HDMI audio interface with AV32RDP/AV192R"

    Now thats what most of us would like but does any of the old Tag guys really believe this is possible.

    Was any thoughts or development done before the demise
     
  14. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    Can I ask why you want an HDMI audio interface and what use you can actually put it to currently or even in the future?
     
  15. AMCross

    AMCross
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Messages:
    5,657
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Livingston,Scotland
    Ratings:
    +187
    (1) my NEW sky + 500 High Definition :laugh:
    (2)IAG Universal Player :laugh:

    No seriously with all this talk of new formats i have just asked the question to see if any of the old skool can throw some more light on the subject

    Obviously with the new Arcam range having HDMI inputs and outputs we now feel left out. :smashin:
     
  16. Stevesky

    Stevesky
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2004
    Messages:
    454
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    A latest generation AV32R and AV192R has the connector on already to feed the multichannel digital audio in. Having now dabbled with these HDMI IC's for a different project a few more mod wires, pin lifts etc would be required as you definately need access to an interrupt line which wasn't exposed on the reserved connector.

    Power demands are a bit of an issue and personally I would do a transformer swap out to resolve the issue and introduce a secondary 5 volt and v3.3 digital rail.

    192kHz mode has issues and could only run from derived clocks and I'm not convinced the Siemens micro would be too happy measuring 192kHz and handle all it's other tasks ... me thinks a divider is required to keep the peace! Add the odd little link required on the 21065L due to a little clocking thang and it might just fly.

    So yeh, it's feasible, it wouldn't really be a dealer fit and due to the licences and development attached to it you would have to be pretty confident that you could sell quite a few DP's/192R and upgrades to make it worth while.

    Alternatively it would be technically far nicer/reliable to respin the mainboard and PSU and just offer a trade-in scheme for an AV64R!
     
  17. AMCross

    AMCross
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Messages:
    5,657
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Livingston,Scotland
    Ratings:
    +187
    Thanks Stevesky

    Just what i thought ,this little digital input is it next to the internal dab input ?


    Heres hoping :thumbsup:
     
  18. AMCross

    AMCross
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2003
    Messages:
    5,657
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Livingston,Scotland
    Ratings:
    +187
    Stevesky so it was you in your long coat walking round maplins last week with a carrier pack full of bits and peices :D
     
  19. Stevesky

    Stevesky
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2004
    Messages:
    454
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    Considering the latest wave of DVD players are HDMI 1.1 compliant, hence give DVD-A et all down the HDMI interface it seems like an ideal thing to have stuck on the back of the AV. Also with DD Plus and DTS Lossless looming it's an ideal way to get these hidef digital signals into an AVP.
     
  20. Plump

    Plump
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    636
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    under the bridge
    Ratings:
    +0
    Can you tell us one brand that will have it soon :)

    P.S. (other thread) My Alpha 9 is on its way to Arcam - Thanks again for your efforts.
     
  21. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,133
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,277
    HDMI audio / video interface
    DAB electronic program guide, which I believe a few DAB receivers are now capable of this, is helpful, relevant here
    Easy automated TMREQ
    DD Plus and DTS Lossless

    Oh did I mention HDMI :)
     
  22. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    But DVD-A is a dead duck and no real music available on it worth listening to...... As for DD Plus and DTS lossless, what is wrong with using the existing bitstream input assuming it works? Please don't tell me I can go and buy yet another different format copy of DSOTM.....

    DVI gives the same signal video wise does it not?
     
  23. jolaca

    jolaca
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Stevesky...May I ask who are you working for right now?? Maybe you already told or maybe not, I do not want to be curious, neither to bother. It is just that I am sure that the products you are know helping to develop at your new job are going to be really nice because I do feel that you enjoy what you do and we may be tempted in the future to buy these items.

    Thank you for still being there, helping us with our tag kit.
    Regards.
     
  24. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    DAB EPG, ooh you have been listening then... ;) Software update for existing TAG DAB modules maybe?

    Easy TMREQ, we are well down that route matey already but as I said I'd expect John would like paying for his efforts....
    DD Plus and DTS lossless, again software updates maybe? But does anyone really want yet another format to pick from, its like asking for 10.2 output..... IAG won't be doing anything that isn't a popular marketing exercise and profitable otherwise we are back to the TAG days where they chased Meridian on the format release race and we all know where that got them.....

    Using the AV32R/DP or AV192R as a video switcher is neat obviously but in these times of simple control devices being able to address many bits of kit it is just as easy to integrate another manufacturers device that does what you require and I'll wager a bit cheaper..... IAG would also know this and do the sums...... Sorry nice to have's are not going to happen in real world finance methinks there has to be a profitable reason for them.....
     
  25. Stevesky

    Stevesky
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2004
    Messages:
    454
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    I hate to say it but Arcam have an HDMI 1.1 player based on the Zoran 5 DVD decoder and Silicon Image HDMI chipset.

    You are limited on the amount of data you can churn down an SPDIF link, which in turn limits the amount of channels and "lossless" that you can support.

    HDMI is backwards compatable with DVI, however HDMI brings new things to the party like optional 10bit and 12bit video support which may come in kinda handy for the high def. DVD formats. For a punter friendly summary of this see:

    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-dvi-hdmi-hdcp-connections-11-2004.html

    That I definately won't argue with... Quack Quack Bang!
     
  26. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    Hi Steve.

    Right then lets look at this logically:-

    Forget DVD-A transfers via digital link for now as it don't make that much difference from CD assuming a decent CD transport and decent recording, if you really want it, use the analogue stages in the 32/192 as they ain't too shabby....

    Does anyone really want more than 7 channels? Nope......Frankly almost everyone is happy with 5.1......Divorce is far more expensive surely......

    High def DVD formats......By the time we can afford them we will all be using HTPC's anyway and downloading all our movies and not worrying about upgrades as it is a PC............I'll wager PC games will drive any graphics upgrade and they will be 10/12 bit if they can make use of it first.....

    Is HDMI v1.1 actually the V2 we all talk about? i.e. carries DVD-A digitally etc.....

    Once we get to the stage where SPDIF can't cope with the sound then is the time to upgrade to an HDMI3/4/5 interface?

    The thing that really would be nice is to have the existing 5.1 bypass inputs TMREQable,bass rules etc. That would be enough for just about anyone surely, use the inputs with a SACD or if you fancy, DVD-A and sit back and enjoy.

    Not wishing to single out Arcam but as good their stuff is it don't sound or look any better than what most of us already have and the day of the HTPC is getting very close and presently the AV192R/32DP can deal with everything it can throw at them. You should see the ridiculously good picture showing a 720p file via the TAG AV192R/VSM 2048 and out via DVI to the pj...... Seeing as it is likely that 720p will be the format for the UK we simply won't need anything else..... The day of the DVD is drawing in slowly......

    BTW if I get the T2L logo up, have I cracked the sync issue? Sounds pretty good to me and 4 out of 5 people I tried it on could not tell the difference between the DVD32R and the PC playing the same track....... I might be on a winner finally......

    I'll concede that an HDMI interface might be necessary to keep up with the "boys" in this game but then a lot of us still listen to good old stereo.... When there is a point to having one (increased picture/sound quality) I'll ask if an upgrade is possible until then I'll concentrate on what I have, a lot of people expect HDMI but don't have a clue why they want it and don't realise they can get the same result other ways.
    Anyone want to prove to me that HDMI gives us something you can't get any other way now (digital transfer of DVD-A excepted) with identical results? Hi-def broadcasts are not going to worry what we have now either...... Sorry guys I just don't get the burning desire for HDMI "2" in the AV32R/DP or AV192R presently.
     
  27. Stevesky

    Stevesky
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2004
    Messages:
    454
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    More channels, unlikely due to the sheer space it takes up in the room, but are people interested in hearing the soundtrack as the studio mixed and mastered it ... why have £10000's of quids worth of kit when current multichannel formats are inherently limited in their performance due to bandwidth limitations (a good quality MP3 in reallity). You know for one how a once great original mix can easily get slaughtered when it gets to the end user.

    Same thing. There is no v2 ... yet.

    Mass consumer wise I personally think the DVD and CD are king and will be around for a long long time.

    Ideally I would like to see a native progressive format become standard as de-interlacing is a very much a hit / miss technology and the artifacts that can be produced can be far more distracting than the lack of resolution in the original source material. I would like 10bit video to become standard to avoid the typical banding (or dithering to hide the banding) you get on 8bit video and a sensible bitrate for the video to avoid these nasty disc space/audio/feature/video quality compromises that have to be made with DVD.

    We've all been victims of technology that hasn't delivered and when a standard is pretty good already, it's tough for a new standard to deliver the goods. On the music front many a CD has shown that it's not so much the CD limitations, but rather the production engineering that limits the performance. Some of the material released on DVD-A sound worse than the equiv. Japanese CD releases... goes to show that having a person who knows what they're doing at the controls with decent kit is 95% of the equation.

    I personally think HDMI 1.1 will become the consumer standard to connect digital AV kit together in the future as it offers scalability for video (hidef, interlaced, deinterlaced, 8/10/12 bit depth) while on the audio breaks the bandwidth limitations that have cursed SPDIF, let alone the security for the copyrighted material. At the moment it's leading edge and there isn't really sufficient equipment or source material out there to take advantage, but give it a couple of years (expecially in the states) and I think hdmi will be a must have. At price sensitive consumer electronics level in a home enviroment there are so many factors that influence the end results and the connection link between source equipment is only a small part of the equation. However, with the mentallity of "I want the best" you have to remove the obstacles that are limiting progress and performance and hdmi knocks down one of those barriers. The goal is to have the potential to see and hear it as they did when mastering it without media or interconnection issues getting in the way.



    It means that it must be pretty close. Check out the jitter on the spdif to see if it's really doing the business and use a bench PSU to feed in to your sync link input to check that it bends the clocks the same as the DVD32R.
     
  28. Teejoo

    Teejoo
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2004
    Messages:
    221
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Ratings:
    +3
    Indeed, I forgot to mention this one.

    Interesting.....

    I agree! That's why I dropped my "modest" requests (DTS + PLxII & the LFE thing), allthough I understand from Steve that it's not so simple as it sounds :eek: But at least there's no new hardware involved.
     
  29. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    Indeed, having more bandwidth won't improve this mate....... Remember the arguement about 44.1/16 being enough.........I'm not saying I agree with that though.....


    So you mean no digital transfer of DVD-A (or SACD)?


    I'd say DVD will last half as long as CD, file transfer of very high quality stuff has enormous advantages in both delivery and security (look at the way the cinema business is heading).......


    I wouldn't bet on anything better than 720p........for broadcast.......


    Exactly so.....

    You would be surprised what kit people master on...... Our home setup's might even sound better already.... In a studio we have XLR's and miles of cable, AES/EBU, DSD etc.is just another headache to keep from interference...




    Thing is that a lot of people now think it sounds comparable to the DVD32R, I remain skeptical that I have it right but a weekend of listening is on the cards to see if I really can't tell myself....the next stage is to try it on a decent card.

    There is a lot of movement expected in the high end hi-fi world next year but asking for some of these features now means that they will date very very quickly, I'm sitting on the fence for a while, happily playing with my HTPC...
     
  30. Stevesky

    Stevesky
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2004
    Messages:
    454
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    The HDMI official versions are:
    1.00 - video + 2ch audio support
    1.10 - video + (upto) 8ch (PCM) audio support

    Well, measure it ol' chap - I wouldn't consistently trust just listening to the end result to debug hardware... it maybe hiding some nasties in the depths!
     

Share This Page

Loading...