New Epson 9400 or second hand alternatives? Epson EH-LS10000?

Harkon321

Well-known Member
Ready to purchase a new projector for my dedicated room.

This will be used for Movies primarily but also gaming, streaming etc.

Completely light controlled bat cave. Currently have 100" acoustically transparent budget screen. Will be replacing with Seymour UF or Dreamcreen V7 on this size or 110".

Epson 9400 is £2.5k.
There is a Epson EH-LS10000 in the classifieds for £1700

£2500 is the top end of my budget so can't stretch to the new price of things like the Sony or JVC N5 etc.
How do the Epson 9400 and the Epson EH-LS10000 compare? Does one suit my needs more than the other? I appreciate there is a risk on higher end laser projector without warranty. Imagine repairs would be £££.
 

ShanePJ

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
If you want a little more pop from the image, I feel that the traditional lamp still has that over the LS10000. But with the exception of the technical differences and standards (with one just being older than the other and technical advances during that period), they are both extremely good projectors and in a light controlled environment, the argument for going down the laser is a good one as it will deliver a good black level. But if you do want a pop in the image, then the 9400 certainly has it
 

The Dreamer

Distinguished Member
Ready to purchase a new projector for my dedicated room.

This will be used for Movies primarily but also gaming, streaming etc.

Completely light controlled bat cave. Currently have 100" acoustically transparent budget screen. Will be replacing with Seymour UF or Dreamcreen V7 on this size or 110".

Epson 9400 is £2.5k.
There is a Epson EH-LS10000 in the classifieds for £1700

£2500 is the top end of my budget so can't stretch to the new price of things like the Sony or JVC N5 etc.
How do the Epson 9400 and the Epson EH-LS10000 compare? Does one suit my needs more than the other? I appreciate there is a risk on higher end laser projector without warranty. Imagine repairs would be £££.

I was in exactly the same position as you a few years back. Had planned on the 9300? from what I remember, and then an ex-demo LS10000 became available for the same price - but it did come with a warranty (just expired).

Very happy with the LS10000, the only thing it doesn't really do is HDR - but I can live with that. The image is very 'cinema like'.

Note: It is quite a bit bigger than the 9xxx series - to the point where I think I'm going to have to cut some holes in my hushbox to keep it cool (there wasn't room to run my planned cooling ducts). I don't need to generally, as I run it in Low lamp mode - but I can't run it in 3D for very long as it goes into High lamp mode for that and then overheats.
 

GrazzaB

Well-known Member
The LS10000 is huge to be fair, and I don’t think it’s bright enough for 3D unless you’ve got a smaller screen (80”-90”) but if you’re not bothered about the size, 3D or HDR I’d go with the 10000 over the 9400 every time. You get better motion than the 9xxx models and a fantastically stable laser image. Plus it runs cool and has near-instant off and on, and for using the wide colour filter you can run it on medium brightness mode - something I wish the JVC models did, rather than just low or high.

Also, with a Linker you can get wide colour gamut images on 4K Blu-rays, and great tone mapping can be done by 4K players like the newer Panasonic models. It’s an absolutely stunning projector and my JVC N5 beats it but not by a huge amount.
 
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IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
If you couple the 10,000 with a 4*** used Lumagen then this will bring you to a level with HDR that is truly excellent. No comparison with contrast to the 9400. I have seen many NX PJ’s and have no desire to change yet. Z1 yes, Sim Nero 4S yes. But for me the difference with an Nx7 isn’t enough.
 

Saul Goodman

Distinguished Member
I used to have a 9300 and then upgraded to a JVC x5500.

There's one for sale here:


Not sure how much the 9400 is improved over the 9300 but if you can I would look for a used JVC, I much prefered the JVC over the albeit excellent Epsom.
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
Do you have a LS10000 then?
10500, interestingly Adam who has an NX9 was so impressed he has changed his screen and added more light control with his set up, after seeing this unit in a well light controlled setting. The contrast won’t be at the same level as the 9 but it’s way better than the 9400 in the right environment and has very very good shadow detail. I rarely crave more contrast
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
Interesting thread as currently looking at a 9400 and was considering the Optoma laser 4k as well, ~
good to consider the options...

.....light control is essential in a room. no matter the projector. especially any light directly on the screen. indirect light most projectors can cope with.

I was put off the JVC by its brightness
I dont understand the statement ? do you mean luminance ? which jvc what sized screen throw ?

I dont have/want a light controlled room as its a social space as well.
can certainly control light for a social space. you might not have a black hole light sucking theatre. but doesnt mean cant control light so pitch black. or for casual viewing there is no direct ambient light on the screen

Are you happy with the JVC in a bright room?
like any projector want to control ambient and direct light. the jvc has more contrast up the sleeve than most. be surprised how much light can tolerate... but most definitely light on the screen will kill contrast just like will for any projector :)
 

snapper3166

Active Member
light control is essential in a room. no matter the projector. especially any light directly on the screen. indirect light most projectors can cope with.
Sorry yes, it will have the 'normal light control has (blinds/curtains etc) and it wont have any light directed at the screen.

I dont understand the statement ? do you mean luminance ? which jvc what sized screen throw ?
Yes, luminance, the X5500BE compared to the TW9400 Epson or the Optoma (or even a SH TW10000).

I've always found the Epsons very good at coping with a 'normal' room.

Throw: 5.4M to a 120" screen (16:9)

like any projector want to control ambient and direct light. the jvc has more contrast up the sleeve than most. be surprised how much light can tolerate... but most definitely light on the screen will kill contrast just like will for any projector :)
Yep, I suppose I could us an ALR screen to give it a helping hand as well
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
Yes, luminance, the X5500BE compared to the TW9400 Epson or the Optoma (or even a SH TW10000).

I've always found the Epsons very good at coping with a 'normal' room.
the epsons once calibrated drop luminance. keeping in mind if you plan on running high dynamic modes and such everything colour wise all just goes whacko ! which is not great spending 1000s on a projector unless folks viewing dont actually care or know the difference :D

epson will cope fine as do JVC, infact as i mentioned the JVC have more contrast to start with...so actually cope amazingly well ! :) not only with normal rooms but also with some ambient light... not that am not suggesting to deal with ambient light or doing anything can do with your 'normal' room to make more conducive as will only aid to a better result :)

Yep, I suppose I could us an ALR screen to give it a helping hand as well
might be surprised how well cope even without an ALR screen...

as an illustration here with plain white gain 1.1 screen below is an epson (same 1080p dark chip as current 9400) and in a relatively 'normal' room ... charcoal carpet. surrounded with heavy curtains and soft furnishings, screen lowered down from ceiling and in this case even with some ambient light in the room from some table and floor standing lamps behind the line of the screen

1625044406322.png


this is JVC with not only the ambient light in the room but also doors opening up the room open to adjoining room with lights so some direct light on screen. this was just prior to eurovision, where we have some friends over and typically will close the doors do no direct light all fine for social setting but would never watch this way for any serious viewing and all lights off is usually the go
1625050821480.png


this is JVC daytime and with doors at back open again with light filled staircase and kitchen dining opened up... again fine with some friends over and even like with the eurovision and very compressed fta TV source its actually quite respectable for viewing...
1625051022253.png


as mentioned would never watch this way for any serious viewing...even during day time with blockout curtains cant even see hand in front of me and can achieve stunning results something i have been very happy with ... across 2 epson and now 3 jvc.... :)
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Sorry yes, it will have the 'normal light control has (blinds/curtains etc) and it wont have any light directed at the screen.


Yes, luminance, the X5500BE compared to the TW9400 Epson or the Optoma (or even a SH TW10000).

I've always found the Epsons very good at coping with a 'normal' room.

Throw: 5.4M to a 120" screen (16:9)


Yep, I suppose I could us an ALR screen to give it a helping hand as well


Be careful with ALR screens. I paired with a high-ish contrast Sony HW40ES and its lack of lumen output made it look crap. With the Epson 9400, it looked amazing.

Never had the pleasure of seeing a JVC in the flesh but in a batcave, its a no brainer; surely best in class.

In a room with tonnes of ambient light, I think I'd be edging towards the Epson 9400 for that extreme light output... but if you could adapt to the lower lumen output of the JVC, I don't think you'll look back.


Also good point above ^^... if you are calibrating, the Epson's lose most of its light output advantage.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
So.... 2nd Hand JVC X5500BE or new Epson TW9400.. Same money more or less
the JVC will need a calibration for room and setting. and id encourage same with the 9400... as to which will depend on availability and seeing both in action so can decide.... especially the jvc...unless buying a known quantity ...ie know in good nick and from someone you know trust... like anything 2nd hand can be an unknown quantity :)
 

KILLER NADS

Well-known Member
Having both of these projectors, i would say its a no brainer!!

Would go with the 9400 everytime over the ls10000, 9400 is just so much sharper, brighter and better in colors/blacks, plus it has HDR!! Its cheaper and much smaller also.

And i used to love my ls10000 aswell, was using it for over 5 years and 9k hours.

The only thing the ls10000 has over the 9400 is instant on/off, and ofcourse you dont need to keep changing the bulbs every few thousands hours.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Having both of these projectors, i would say its a no brainer!!

Would go with the 9400 everytime over the ls10000, 9400 is just so much sharper, brighter and better in colors/blacks, plus it has HDR!! Its cheaper and much smaller also.

And i used to love my ls10000 aswell, was using it for over 5 years and 9k hours.

The only thing the ls10000 has over the 9400 is instant on/off, and ofcourse you dont need to keep changing the bulbs every few thousands hours.

Why do u think this is? On paper ls series have insane contrast advantage. Is it the insane lumen advantage ?
 

KILLER NADS

Well-known Member
Why do u think this is? On paper ls series have insane contrast advantage. Is it the insane lumen advantage ?
Yeh it must be the extra lumens that give it that extra kick! Initially i thought it was cause of HDR, but even SDR is amazing on the 9400 and a much more popping image then the ls10000 and with HDR movies the black levels are great, i also find the 4K pixel shifting to work better on this maybe just because its newer technology, but i find it much closer to actual 4K then the ls10000 did.
 

494930

Distinguished Member
Yeh it must be the extra lumens that give it that extra kick! Initially i thought it was cause of HDR, but even SDR is amazing on the 9400 and a much more popping image then the ls10000 and with HDR movies the black levels are great, i also find the 4K pixel shifting to work better on this maybe just because its newer technology, but i find it much closer to actual 4K then the ls10000 did.
Out of curiosity, what picture mode do you typically use?

I ask because I moved from a 7300 to an LS10500 (so not quite an apples to apples comparrison here) and found the LS to be brighter than the 7300 once both have been calibrated. The 7300 was much brighter than the LS in dynamic mode which was useful for sport but its not even close to being accurate for movie content.
 

KILLER NADS

Well-known Member
Out of curiosity, what picture mode do you typically use?

I ask because I moved from a 7300 to an LS10500 (so not quite an apples to apples comparrison here) and found the LS to be brighter than the 7300 once both have been calibrated. The 7300 was much brighter than the LS in dynamic mode which was useful for sport but its not even close to being accurate for movie content.
My tw9400 was professionally calibrated in both Natural for SDR and Digital Cinema for HDR modes. Yeh dont worry im not using Bright Mode :D !!

I leave it on Normal power mode, as i dont think the Full power provides much better light, plus it makes too much noise!

On the Laser LS10000 i used to pretty much use high lamp mode i think as it was near silent still and other times Normal mode. That was calibrated also but i cant remember under which setting i think it was Natural.

The black levels were also great and so was the colors and contrast on the LS10000, i had 5 very good years with it, but really did wish that it did do HDR and that it was just a bit brighter! Thats why im so happy with the tw9400. However, after ive found a new house and moved there and built a new home cinema room, i havent decided if i will keep this projector or upgrade to a JVC N5 or N7 or something, as i really want that HDR digital mapping. Lets see.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
My tw9400 was professionally calibrated in both Natural for SDR and Digital Cinema for HDR modes. Yeh dont worry im not using Bright Mode :D !!

I leave it on Normal power mode, as i dont think the Full power provides much better light, plus it makes too much noise!

On the Laser LS10000 i used to pretty much use high lamp mode i think as it was near silent still and other times Normal mode. That was calibrated also but i cant remember under which setting i think it was Natural.
hi KN, its good have had the 9400 calibrated well worth it ! also good the LS10000 was calibrated as well. though by the sounds am not sure really calibrated for HDR ? keeping in minds calibration has come a loooong ways with 4k uhd and HDR as well ! not only in availability with tools, techniques and understanding even with pro calibrators. I can tell you it was only few years ago most of local calibrators while very competent with SDR and R709 calibration, a bit on the cluelsss side with 4k uhd sand HDR..and then there is the struggle with end user as well with folks also not really knowing what to do with projectors especially those with no static let alone dynamic tone mapping capability ... and very much not set forget !

The black levels were also great and so was the colors and contrast on the LS10000, i had 5 very good years with it, but really did wish that it did do HDR and that it was just a bit brighter! ~

the LS10000 had a few things going for it vs the 9400... keeping in mind the 9400 still uses the ole epson 9000 series 1080p chip just pixel shifted and with a new light engine :) the LS10000 according to epson came...

"With Epson's innovative 3LCD Reflective system, you get remarkably high contrast as well. Featuring advanced liquid crystal on quartz technology, this 3LCD Reflective projector boasts exceptional performance, including an improved pixel density and increased aperture ratio for smoother, film-like pictures."

so higher contrast ... which actually gives greater perception of detail, and pictures look richer and with more depth ie with more dynamic range ! and also a better inter pixel gap... so indeed a smoother film like look to it ... closer to the JVCs and Sonys...

the couple of things the LS10000 struggled with was light output with only 1500 lumens uncalibrated it really doesnt leave much up sleeve depending on setup. probably fine in most setups but lacking for HDR in most larger screens. the colour filter also i beleive took a bit away from output... then there is the other limitation of hdmi chipset which while ok in early days of 4k uhd is a bit lacking these days with not being able to support 4k 50/60 and fully across the gamut of what can throw at projectors today...

However, after ive found a new house and moved there and built a new home cinema room, i havent decided if i will keep this projector or upgrade to a JVC N5 or N7 or something, as i really want that HDR digital mapping. Lets see.
enjoy ! a new house is a pretty big thing to take on so probably just bide time...

the n5 will bring true native 4k which neither epsons can do. also jvc has the best inter pixel gap right now. for an even more analog smooth film look along lines of the ls10000. contrast wise will be a step up from both ! the dynamic tone mapping will also be a game changer with set forget between sources and movies ... every thing can throw at it. jvc n7 if want more contrast again the wcg filter which unlike the epsons only robs some 10% or so of light. both projectors will provide a step up in light as well from LS10000 and not too far from the epson 9400 as the JVCs dont drop as much light in calibration as the epsons do...

notice in no where above have posted anything about the laser...in my opinion its really irrelevant the light source ...in this argument. lamps are cheap and affordable when consider the price difference between quality laser and lamp machines...and especially when consider for most folks A lamp is all most folks would change in a lifetime of a projector maybe a 2nd lamp at most ...still justify on the basis of lamp replacement ...

All this said ...i do hope epson refreshes the LS10000 for 2022 ! it deserves too... hopefully can eek out more lumens with a new laser engine. fit a better p3 filter that doesnt sacrifice as mcuh light... and finally updates the hdmi chip set for something more in tune with folks current projection needs. hopefully in all this they can also pull off a more room friendly package size for the projector too rather than the behemoth of a thing every one here wheee i am kept away from !
 

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