New Epson 4k Lasers

Going even further off topic but isnt DTM ultimately just making HDR more like SDR. I get the whole WCG thing but can completely do without it. All seems a bit of a waste of time and money. Now if they would just release 4K SDR with the best sound on discs/streaming then that would do just fine for PJ’s. HDR is the biggest mess/pain in the arse invented.
 
I think you are at the mercy of your sponsors and those providing the equipment, what they say goes so to speak.
When someone offers to sponsor an event like that, you check what they're offering, and what strings are attached. If one of the strings is that you deliberately make projectors look poor (which is what you're doing with OOTB settings) then just say no. What a farce.
 
That scene from 1917 is so hard for the projectors.

I felt the mapping from the Envy during the 'lightning' effect in Harry Potter dumbed down the highlights too much (it looked like it should just about clip), but at the same time it did help with the ghost of Harry's face, which suggests the original source wasn't as well made as it could have been.
This scene was the WOW moment, I got the whole concept of set and forget but this face scene and him checking his watch and climbing the stairs to the window was the point I realised that DMT on the N5 was something a bit different.
 
I'm not entirely won over to 4K HDR either, more often than not you barely notice the difference in resolution and the colours aren't hugely better either. That said when you do get one that's delivering on all counts it is magical. :love:

To be honest, when everything aligns, i actually find that there is much more detail. It's kind of like the HDR enhances the 4K resolution and i find my jaw dropping.
It's not the pop, specular highlights or anything like that, but more depth to the image, things like cityscapes & wide forest shots are where i seem to really notice, there is MORE image up on the screen to watch!

I also guess it is why i was impressed with the Tone Mapping on those 1917 shots in the "shoot out" because you were seeing much more of the image. Also why i tend to like colour accuracy and calibration. More movie, more things to connect you with the experience.

I like my black velvet cinema cave because there's less to distract, the room fades and it is all about the screen. Great for contrast and black levels, but there's way more to an image than ultimate black (and that's as a Goth speaking ;) )
 
This scene was the WOW moment, I got the whole concept of set and forget but this face scene and him checking his watch and climbing the stairs to the window was the point I realised that DMT on the N5 was something a bit different.

Have a feeling I'm going to have to pick up 1917 and have a watch!


EDIT £11.99 ebay, UHD ordered!
 
Definitely worth having. I use the first 10 mins or so for judging DV calibration and the same 10 mins or so at the beginning of Ford vs Ferrari for HDR.
 
I've had a look at the video and am simialrly unimpressed. I used the same Harry Potter duelling scene as a test when demo-ing the LS12000. Here's the image I posted months ago. As you can see, the LS12000 (with those settings) delivered WAAYYY more detail than the Youtube shootout obtained using their settings.

I've had the LS12000 for a few months now. I'm using the HDFury Vertex2 hack. I've not had to make any adjustments to settings across all the streaming, 4K disks, SDR vs HDR, etc. apart from simply turning the laser power down from 75% (HDR) to 55% (SDR).

All of the above re-inforces the points made by others here. That video shootout has VERY limited usefulness. Even worse, it may put off people from buying a projector which is best suited to their requirements. It's a real shame as it would be very interesting to see a meaningful comparison of these projectors.
 

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On holiday at the minute. Anyone know the time stamp in 1917 with the characters face in the dark. Curious to try a few different things when I get home ie PJ static tone map vs JRVR vs MadVR vs infuse tone mapping. Might rip the Blu-ray version as well out of curiosity.
 
On holiday at the minute. Anyone know the time stamp in 1917 with the characters face in the dark. Curious to try a few different things when I get home ie PJ static tone map vs JRVR vs MadVR vs infuse tone mapping. Might rip the Blu-ray version as well out of curiosity.

I'll be interested in this when my disc turns up. Guessing it's HDR10 not DV ?

Will be vanishing off to an airfield in Germany later for a Festival, but should have the disc when i'm back next week.

I'm very curious to see how my ol' 9400 set-up will do with it!
 
And the
On holiday at the minute. Anyone know the time stamp in 1917 with the characters face in the dark. Curious to try a few different things when I get home ie PJ static tone map vs JRVR vs MadVR vs infuse tone mapping. Might rip the Blu-ray version as well out of curiosity.
Harry Potter time stamp would be good too.
 
I'll be interested in this when my disc turns up. Guessing it's HDR10 not DV ?
1917 should be DV. Not aware of any regional differences.

Will be interesting to see if the LLDV hack brings anything to the table on that scene. The shootout would have been straight HDR10
 
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Have a feeling I'm going to have to pick up 1917 and have a watch!


EDIT £11.99 ebay, UHD ordered!

On the 9400 with the filter in place I found the colours amazing, Gordon did a stellar job on it's calibration. Funny because of the YouTube video on the projectors I rewatched it myself, absolute classic war time movie IMO.
 
I've had a look at the video and am simialrly unimpressed. I used the same Harry Potter duelling scene as a test when demo-ing the LS12000. Here's the image I posted months ago. As you can see, the LS12000 (with those settings) delivered WAAYYY more detail than the Youtube shootout obtained using their settings.

I've had the LS12000 for a few months now. I'm using the HDFury Vertex2 hack. I've not had to make any adjustments to settings across all the streaming, 4K disks, SDR vs HDR, etc. apart from simply turning the laser power down from 75% (HDR) to 55% (SDR).
That's great to hear, ideally you don't want to have to keep adjusting the settings for different movies so if the HDFury hack delivers this then everyone without a DTM solution already should be considering this or at least be aware of it's benefits.
All of the above re-inforces the points made by others here. That video shootout has VERY limited usefulness. Even worse, it may put off people from buying a projector which is best suited to their requirements. It's a real shame as it would be very interesting to see a meaningful comparison of these projectors.
Couldn't agree more, I was completely shocked by the review because like you I have watched most of the stuff they used and never experienced anything like what I saw, it wouldn't inspire me to consider a projector especially when ones north of £10K weren't delivering the kind of results you'd expect based on what I was seeing in their video.

Regardless of the projector I own now or in the past each of them have left me in awe with their image quality and frankly no TV can approach the sheer scale of image they deliver at anything close to the same price.
 
Just in case anyone is interested the time stamp when the main character comes into view in 1917 as per the shootout is 1:06:34.
Using J River MC29, JRVR showed his face perfectly as did MadVR performing DTM to 1080P SDR on my PC screen, which should come as no surprise really.

Will try later using HDfury LLDV to see if anything at all shows up on the PJ or if it is the same as the shootout with basically a black picture. Will also try infuse on ATV outputting 4K SDR which normally also does a pretty good job at DTM, albeit a tiny bit bright.
 
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I feel almost everyone will say yes to this as the improvement over the older LS10000 is noticeable although I do feel that the LS10000 is very much still completely relevant for its ability to create an amazing experience. But the extra brightness, image shifting tech improvements really are a step up in bring 4k to life. I shall let users who have made the jump though as these like you were pioneers making the jump and if it wasn't for you and others, Laser wouldn't be where it was today :smashin:
 
Hi, I moved from an LS10000 to an LS12000 (via a JVC N5) and if you have a smaller screen I’d stick with the LS10000, the contrast is better than the LS12000 and it’s built like a tank. You can also get excellent wide colour through the filter with 4K discs, but if you need the brightness of HDR / are a gamer and want HDR with higher frame rates, and have a larger screen, it’s worth going for the LS12000
 
Thanks for the replies. I have a 100" screen in a dedicated room, so brightness is not an issue. It was more a question of curiosity really, as the image I get from my Lumagen/LS10000 is very good. But like the rest of us in this hobby, we're always looking to improve the experience.
 
Thanks for the replies. I have a 100" screen in a dedicated room, so brightness is not an issue. It was more a question of curiosity really, as the image I get from my Lumagen/LS10000 is very good. But like the rest of us in this hobby, we're always looking to improve the experience.
OK so then unless you’re hugely invested in gaming or want 4K HDR from the streaming services, I’d probably stick where you are as you can get WCG SDR with the LS10000 with 4K discs, and fantastic it looks too. Also it’s a projector that gives you excellent WCG coverage so as tempting as it is to upgrade (believe me I know!) I’d wait for now. Hope that helps!

PS sorry I see you’ve also got a Lumagen, in which case I’d definitely stay with what you’ve got
 
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Is it worth updating a LS10000 to the LS12000?
It probably depends on screen size. The LS12000 is brighter, but on a more modest screen the LS10000 might have a contrast advantage (it was a different technology). Particularly if you had a processor between the source and projector.
 

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