New DSLR

timus

Well-known Member
I had been looking at the new Sony A100 but looking in Jessops and talking to the guy he absolutley slated it saying that it wasn't very good, plus i had read some things on the net about noise issues on the higher ISO speeds.

I am currently the owner of a Canon 300x but when i was in jessops today i had a go with the D70s and was very impressed the excellent 18-70mm lense plus the sturdy feel to the body, having looked on the net and seeing the good reviews i am very tempted.

And Jessops also have good deal on a sigma 70-300mm lense at the moment at £130. So its either a Nikon D70s or Canon 350d. I am not sure what to go with any experienced users able to tell me how they find the cameras?
 

loz

Distinguished Member
timus said:
I had been looking at the new Sony A100 but looking in Jessops and talking to the guy he absolutley slated it saying that it wasn't very good, plus i had read some things on the net about noise issues on the higher ISO speeds.

Sales people and things they "read on the net". Dangerous combination :D
 

Ikki

Active Member
Please, don't listen to a Jessops salesman's comments about cameras let alone one that has just come into stock, he's talking utter tripe.

Check out the feedback in the DPReview Sony DSLR forum

The A100 is a development of the KM 5D and carries on from what was probably the best of the entry level DSLR's. The image stabilisation is now even better and it was good before, you don't get that with Canon and Nikon except on very expensive lenses. The DRO function appears to work well. From reading many threads on the above forum it seems that the new sensor gives the camera a lot more picture detail over the 6MP and 8MP competitors. It is true that noise is worse than a 6MP camera above iso800 (but so are the noise levels of the Nikon D200) and it cleans up nicely. The noise levels at iso 1600 are slightly worse than the Nikon D200 but there is more detail in the images which appears to be down to the way that internal noise processing is applied. Experienced users are saying that images at lower iso figures (i.e. the ones normally used) are simply stunning.

If you check out the forum you will find lots of images, just be aware that a good number are from people moving up from p&s cameras and who have not got the best out of it yet.

From what I have seen, I am very impressed with it. It is not enough of an advance for me to sell my 5D (that camera will come along in due course) but I would thoroughly recommend it over the other entry level DSLR's such as the D50 and the 350D.

You may also want to give the new Pentax K100D a look at. It will be in the shops very soon and is getting good feedback where it is on sale now. It also has in body image stabilisation.

What ever you do try to handle the cameras and take some images with each of your choices.
 

timus

Well-known Member
its a difficult choice but surelya 10mp camera is only good if you want to make poster size prints surely? I am not 100% sure what to go with at the moment i shall have to give it some thought.
 

barijohn

Active Member
How many lenses have you got for the Canon 300? The reason being is that if you stick with the canon you can use all you current ones.

I have the 350D and I find it excellent. The Nikon D70 and the 350D usually fight it out to which one is best. I have used Canons for ages so stuck with them as I can use my old lenses. Also any new ones I buy can be used on my old Film camera. (Which I haven't used since :D )
 

wyerd

Active Member
If you've already got a number of Canon lenses, I'd look at a Canon DSLR. The type all depends on your budget. I've found the 350D great value for money and a fantastic camera for a beginner upgrading from a point & shoot. As you've already been using a SLR the 30D might be the one for you.
 

timus

Well-known Member
all i currently have with my EOS 300x is a 28-90mm lense and a 90-300mm zoom lense. I am not to bothered about starting out with a brand new system from Nikon but at the same time i also feel that i should stick with what i know its a difficult decision.
 

Pirate!!

Banned
Frankly, the A100 has been causing quite a stir in the DSLR 'scene' with it's introduction.

As an Oly E500 owner, it has features that 'we' have been wanting since year dot! If you can afford one, then I would think it would be an awesome piece of kit to own. Remember, Sony 'acquired' Konica/Minolta's family jewels in the camera market, so there will be a whole array of lenses and support for this gem. According to my limited research the KM lenses will fit the Sony.

You pays yer money and makes yer choice (budget aside). Ask yourself exactly what YOU want in the camera YOU choose.
 

Radiohead

Well-known Member
Ikki said:
The noise levels at iso 1600 are slightly worse than the Nikon D200 but there is more detail in the images which appears to be down to the way that internal noise processing is applied.

That's some claim for a camera that's only been out for a couple of days and which as you say is often in the hands of previous P&S shooters. The D200 is reckoned to have 99% of the image quality of the D2x which is itself up there in terms of MF resolution.

I'd love to see a controlled head-to-head of RAW shots from both taken at varying ISO steps. Sadly I think we'll have to do without and instead listen to the usual in-fighting in the ongoing camera jihad.
 

barijohn

Active Member
timus said:
all i currently have with my EOS 300x is a 28-90mm lense and a 90-300mm zoom lense. I am not to bothered about starting out with a brand new system from Nikon but at the same time i also feel that i should stick with what i know its a difficult decision.

In that case if you got a Canon DSLR you would only need a wide angle lens. (28 equates to 45mm on a 350D)

HTH
 

Roger Matthews

Active Member
timus said:
its a difficult choice but surelya 10mp camera is only good if you want to make poster size prints surely? I am not 100% sure what to go with at the moment i shall have to give it some thought.
Not really, often even with a good telephoto lens you can't get close enough to the subject and so need to print a smallish section from the middle of the picture, try doing that on a 6 Megapixel shot and you then know why 10 Megapixel is better (providing the sensor is good - and it is on the A100).
 

ush flynn

Well-known Member
Ikki said:
Please, don't listen to a Jessops salesman's comments about cameras let alone one that has just come into stock, he's talking utter tripe.

Excuse me? would you be a better candidate to talk to about a new camera thats just come out? because you looked on dpreview forums and read what a bunch of P&S upgraders thought of thier magical sonys?

At least that sales person took an active interest in the camera and did read something about it. He has more hands on experience than you and a lot of the people posting on that low-grades forum. As some people here know, i used to work for jessops and people who walked in with a pre conceived idea of a jessops sales person they wouldnt get to the stage where they and the sales person could fire a couple of cameras up and have a play around. Usually if a person walked in with a slightly better attitude you can try the thing out for yourself. Id let tons of people compare shots on our PC and even in print to test things they had concerns about.

A good friend of mine who still works for the company told me today that he thought the sony was pretty weak too. Not just on the body but, the range of lenses and planned range of lenses. He is someone i would probably listen to about photography in that he was work being exhibited around london, published in magazines and has a masters in photography.

Ive yet to have the camera in my hands but ive seen in plenty of times. Buying into a new system should be done carefully i think. Remember KM were pretty big in the SLR and dSLR field and all of a sudden they shut down leaving thier lens mount and SLR systems to sony. Where are sony going to go? is the buyer going to have full frame options at any point? is there going to be any room for a real upgrade? what if they want to turn pro or want to get a lot more serious? can sony cater for them or does the buyer have to completely switch to canon or nikon and start thier lens and accessory collection again, as well as getting comfortable with a new way of operating thier camera.

Everyone says this new sony is going to shake up the market and it may have done slightly but it can never compete with canon and nikon, Zeiss wont make a whole new set of options for one little enthusiasts camera
 

loz

Distinguished Member
Radiohead said:
I'd love to see a controlled head-to-head of RAW shots from both taken at varying ISO steps. Sadly I think we'll have to do without and instead listen to the usual in-fighting in the ongoing camera jihad.

Here you go and go on to the next page

Quote
As well as shooting our studio test scene at each camera's lowest sensitivity we also shot it at ISO 800 and 1600. As you can see the approach taken by Canon (clean data in, less need for noise reduction) really pays off at ISO 800 and 1600 where it demonstrates far more detail and less visible noise than any other camera here. Between the DSLR-A100 and D200 at these high sensitivities the A100 appears to maintain more detail.
 

loz

Distinguished Member
ush flynn said:
Excuse me? would you be a better candidate to talk to about a new camera thats just come out? because you looked on dpreview forums and read what a bunch of P&S upgraders thought of thier magical sonys?

Actually I think a lot of them are upgraders from Konica Minolta SLR.
KM 5D/7D owners for example who have been waiting for a resolution upgrade.

ush flynn said:
At least that sales person took an active interest in the camera and did read something about it. He has more hands on experience than you and a lot of the people posting on that low-grades forum.

There's nothing low grade about DPReview. It is widely acknowleged as one of the best camera forums. And their technical reviews are widely acknowledged as some of the best. They have just completed one on the A100 and compared it to Canon and Nikon
 

barongreenback

Active Member
The technical reviews on DPReview are indeed excellent. The vast number of elitist and arrogant children that post on their forums though is a serious problem. I come to forums for advice and to give advice where I can - the rudeness of many people who post there is simply astounding.
 

barongreenback

Active Member
Just to add (apologies for taking this thread off at a tangent), the guy in Jacobs today had a similar experience and wasn't keen on the Sony. They sold 2 at the weekend but customers have been unimpressed with the auto white balance in particular and don't see the resolution benefit of the 10mp sensor.
 

loz

Distinguished Member
barongreenback said:
The vast number of elitist and arrogant children that post on their forums though is a serious problem. I come to forums for advice and to give advice where I can - the rudeness of many people who post there is simply astounding.

It certainly isn't as actively moderated as AV Forums, that's for sure.
But it isn't true that it is a low-grade forum of inexperienced P&S users, as was being implied. Far from it - it suffers if anything from being the opposite extreme, people who think they know everything as you suggest.
 

timus

Well-known Member
I have decided on the 350d it seemed stupid to start with a new camera and leaving my old lenses reduntant, plus the price is amazing at the moment hopefully get it tomorrow.
 

Ikki

Active Member
Well, that's what I get for trying to help.

I have offended both a Nikon user and an ex Jessops employee with my post.
icon_telloff.gif



Originally Posted by ush flynn
Excuse me? would you be a better candidate to talk to about a new camera thats just come out? because you looked on dpreview forums and read what a bunch of P&S upgraders thought of thier magical sonys?

From what I have experienced in major chain technology stores, the answer is probably yes, but don't let that upset you.

However, you are being very insulting towards many camera enthusiasts. Does their practice of using a p&s camera make them any lesser photographers than DSLR users? I think not.

Originally Posted by barongreenback
The vast number of elitist and arrogant children that post on their forums though is a serious problem. I come to forums for advice and to give advice where I can - the rudeness of many people who post there is simply astounding.

Yes, it's true that there are some very rude and arrogant people there. There are also many beginners and posters with little experience, but they are there in the most part to learn and ask advice. There are also a great many very nice and pleasant, experienced enthusiasts who are ready to give help and advice. Like in all populations, there are always a broad crossection of people, it doesn't make it a place to be avoided.

Another point in it's favour is that the structure means that posters interested in anything other than Canon or Nikon can discuss other brands without being swamped with the 'Canikon is the only way' mentality that is prevalent in some other photography forums on the net. (I say this as a Canon owner ;) )
 

ush flynn

Well-known Member
Ikki said:
From what I have experienced in major chain technology stores, the answer is probably yes, but don't let that upset you.

However, you are being very insulting towards many camera enthusiasts. Does their practice of using a p&s camera make them any lesser photographers than DSLR users? I think not.



)

I dont appreciate your attempt to try and make me look bad, i have said nothing against P&S users and it seems you havent notice any of my posts about cameras i own. Nor do you know the fact that i dont actually OWN a dSLR though use 3 models at work and have purchased one for my gf.
What i meant originally was that a lot of the threads i see on the A100 seem to be "fanboy" type people thinking that sony bringing out an SLR means imminent doom for everything else on the market. The type of people that hadnt heard of Nikon before it was suggested that perhaps Sony dont make the best P&S cameras. It seems that a lot of the people interested in buying and actually buying are the people who like to stick to Sony and cant make a real argument as to whats better or worse compared to something on the current market because they have no experience of Canon and Nikons history and expertise. And its hard to filter out the useless junk posts from the constructive ones

What i did mention that when i looked on dpreview forums (and i didnt mean the reviews were low grade, they are excellent but the forums leave a lot to be desired) There was plenty of useless info being tossed around and being unmoderated it can be daunting for a new buyer to get any sense out of the forums. Personally i find the forum part of the site next to useless compared to this one although i do check interesting sounding thread names... but am usually disappointed


Ps its getting late, i apologise in advance if this post makes no sense!
 

h4rri

Active Member
ush flynn said:
Ps its getting late, i apologise in advance if this post makes no sense!

It makes perfect sense mate and I hear you, I know Sony bought KM and are using their kit but I prefer a tried and tested solution. When I look at the lense range and the price it simply scares me :eek: I know you can use older lenses on the system but you can with everyone else too ...

I for one won't be rushing out to buy one of these. Oh and the subject of Jessops and their sales staff I have to stand in defence of them. I haven't always found them to be uber geeks on the chosen camera we are looking at but then they don't try to bullsh*t me when they don't know. They honestly state I don't know and we have a root through the manual or a play with the camera to find out :)
 
M

midtones

Guest
What's the big idea of slating the D200 re: noise, I knew that would crop up ;)

DPreview reviews are pretty good. The forums are hell. Constant brand loyalty wars, usually by the Canon kids. The only people who really don't get involved with all that are the Panasonic folk!

Isolated problems crop up and it spreads like wildfire. Last time I read them, a huge thread about some guy having gone thru 3 canon 30ds because of excessive noise at iso200 or something. Lo and behold everyone then had that problem.

Stay out of there, for your own sanity!

K.

PS. The feature list is good, the mount is good but from the samples I've seen from the Alpha, it didn't really impress me.
 

Ikki

Active Member
ush flynn, if you feel that I have tried to make you look bad, then that wasn't the intention. I was pointing out that your comments re the new Sony DSLR owners were too strong.

'Fanboys' exist for every brand, none more so than Canon and Nikon. The new owners are excited about their new camera and so they should be, it's a big move for many. While some have moved up from Sony, there are many who have used other brands previously. Buying a Sony camera doesn't mean that you are incapable of thought or of being able to make an informed decision about what to buy any more than buying any other brand does.

Just a final point, the term p&s encompasses everything from the cheapest snapper to top end non-slrs that are capable of producing very high quality images. Most of the users of the latter type of camera are quite serious about their hobby and see the DSLR as the next step. I expect the forum to settle down as the new users get used to their cameras and Sony provides a higher level model to satisfy the disgruntled KM users.
 

richard plumb

Distinguished Member
I don't really understand camera fanboys.

Surely Nikon and Canon DSLRs are both capable of great, professional results, otherwise professionals wouldn't use them?
 
M

midtones

Guest
richard plumb said:
I don't really understand camera fanboys.

Surely Nikon and Canon DSLRs are both capable of great, professional results, otherwise professionals wouldn't use them?

I can understand brand loyalty, if you use a product for X amount of years, you get the support you need and are happy, then that's fine.

I blame the fanboy phenomena on the internet!

K.
 

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