New diesel and petrol vehicles to be banned from 2040 in UK

Discussion in 'Hybrid, PHEV & EV Electric Cars Forum' started by Stuart Wright, Jul 26, 2017.

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  1. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    New diesel and petrol vehicles to be banned from 2040 in UK - BBC News
    Following the same move from France recently France set to ban sale of petrol and diesel vehicles by 2040
    Honestly I think the policy will largely be redundant since the vast majority of new cars will be electric by then anyway. Electric cars will be cheaper to run and maintain, more reliable, and have better performance.
    Some car makers are heading that way quicker than others Volvo goes electric across the board - BBC News
     
  2. jason g

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    there would need to be a major overall of access to charging points as people like the idea of electric cars but it needs proper charging access, starting with every fuel station having them installed.

    it will be interesting to see whether the government can make sure the costs stay low, house hold energy prices are a rip off and i can see motoring ones doing the same.
     
  3. True Romance

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    Honestly don't think we'll have the infrastructure for full EV motoring by 2040. At present there is only really one player on the motorway network (has monopoly). A quick look on their Twitter feed will see numerous posts about chargers being out of order and this is with very light use currently. If you do small runs and can charge at home no problem but no sure how your sales rep is going to manage?
     
  4. Alan CD

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    The government jumping on the bandwagon without too much research or thought. A political policy to be carried out well in the future without any substance.

    As other members have said - the country is heading in that direction anyway.

    I notice the political policy only applies to cars and vans. Diesel lorries, coaches and buses will continue to spew 'filthy' and 'dirty' pollution. IMO the policy should apply to all vehicles and not just the easy targets.
     
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  5. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    Agree the infrastructure is still in its infancy. I think it will expand, though, as it's the nature of business to supply demand.
     
  6. lovegroova

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    Repost: UK to ban new diesel and petrol cars by 2040

    ;)

    More importantly, where is all the electricity going to come from? I thought that our current grid was already operating at near capacity, and is 20/30 years enough time for everything to be sorted out?
     
  7. gibbsy

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    There doesn't seem to be a lot of flesh on the policy as yet. What worries me is is it a political sound bite before government starts hammering diesel owners with punative tax increases.
     
  8. Clem_Dye

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    Seems like a case of style over substance to me. As I've mentioned elsewhere, the date is so far off in political terms that it's pretty meaningless now. As others have mentioned, where's the extra electricity going to come from to charge all our shiny new electric cars, what about the charging infrastructure, range anxiety and so forth? Manufacturers have also got to do their bit, and in real terms such a marked change will take many years (perhaps why HMG posted a date so far in the future). I support the move to EV, but at present, I just don't see how we're going to get there. Right now, I see 2040 as an aspirational target, but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

    Clem
     
  9. lovegroova

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    the sooner they do this and get people out of the stinking nasty things that are diesels, the better. Given that diesel owners have massively underpaid for road fund license and fuel taxes, a balancing up would be no bad thing.
     
  10. domtheone

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    23 years is a long time so, whilst it may seem a long shot, anything can happen.

    Won't be long then till the government start hammering electric car owners with new taxes.:D

    Still not convinced by EV anyway.
     
  11. gibbsy

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    I'll cherish that remark when I get the keys to my new Golf GTD in September.;)
     
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  12. Delvey

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    This won't happen. Due to the fact our electricity production is already near capacity. Yes wind farms and solar panels will help as the technology gets bigger but by 2040 the population would of grown massively and nuclear power plants are a pain the rear end to get built
     
  13. lovegroova

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    I'll be getting my superior GTi in November... ;)
     
  14. gangzoom

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    I'm not entirely sure why so many think 2040 is an unrealistic aim?

    I've now done 20K miles in EVs since 2015, and cannot remember the last time I wanted/needed to drive a petrol/diesel car. In 12-24 months time, depending on how quickly the next generation 200 mile EVs come to market at a sensible price point. We'll than be replacing my wifes hybrid with an EV. For us the concept of buying a new a petrol/diesel car already seems bizarre, right now in 2017, let alone by 2040.

    Anyone following the trend on electricity generation will see big changes are coming, probably bigger than even the switch from combustion cars to EV for personal transport. Contrary to urban myth UK electricity demand is FALLING!!!

    National Grid forecasts low UK electricity demand this summer

    Electricity shake-up could save consumers 'up to £40bn' - BBC News

    I do feel sorry for some indivulas though, human civilization had developed based on a need to constantly change/adapt/innovate, yet some members of the species really do seem to struggle with the concept of progress :).

    I’m only glad I won’t live to see 2040, says tearful Clarkson

    [​IMG]
     
  15. PRESSTOG

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    There is a much much better and larger coverage network run by Chargemaster called Polar, available on PAYG or with a Monthly subscription, loads of great chargers located in towns and just off the Motorway network.

    To Compare to the Ecotricity ones on the Motorway that cost £3 connection charge and 17p Kwh used, the Polar Ones are No Connection Charge and 10.2p Kwh

    Filling my BMW i3 on the Motorway ones cost over £6.00 and at Polar under £2 so no brainer really, the Govt needs to kick EocT off the Motorway network and get more competition in
     
  16. True Romance

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    Agree. They've got pretty much full control of the motorway network. Wonder how long the contracts where for with the service stations?
     
  17. PSM1

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    On the TV this morning they were talking about hybrid cars alongside EVs. I have not seen any info on this new policy but I wonder if hybrids are being classed as a non petrol/diesel vehicle. If this is the case then the switch to non petrol/diesel will be a whole lot easier and could be done well before the 2040 deadline if required.
     
  18. John7

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    Whatever happens, it will not be cheaper to run electric cars. The Government will introduce road charging to compensate for the loss of fuel revenue.
     
  19. Greg Hook

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    23 years is a very long time. So we can easily be ready if needs be.

    Apart from the infrastructure the real change will be how the Government makes up for the massive loss of fuel duty. Whether that be tax added to the cost when you use charging points, or somehow added onto everyone's electricity bill to account for home charging, who knows!

    You also have some massive global companies that provide all this fuel, what will they do when 2040 comes around? (Yes I know they don't just sell car fuel).

    Also, does this include all vehicles such as trucks?
     
  20. True Romance

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    Bet black cabs are off the banded/taxed list. Good point about lack if fuel duty. They must have a back up revenue stream?
     
  21. amd mad

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    It will happen faster than that who's going to buy a diesel car in 2025/30 when in ten years it will be Un saleable/banded
     
  22. domtheone

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    Read earlier that fuel duty collects a staggering £29 Billion from public enemy number one (the motorist).

    Circa 4% of government revenue. So quite a lot.

    As this goes down (as more switch to electric etc) the obvious thing would be for government(s) to reduce spending.

    But oh now, governments are addicted to spending so that £29 Billion will have to come from somewhere else.

    Would hazard a guess that they'll attack the motorist again so, i'd say it'll be likely that fuel duty will eventually be replaced by a pay as you go type scheme. So you'll pay when you travel, not what you travel in.
     
  23. Alan CD

    Alan CD
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    Other members of the species seem to struggle with the concept of asking searching questions and challenging cherished certainties.
     
  24. gibbsy

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    :p
     
  25. elanvital

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    Guess who is gonna foot the bill.
     
  26. lovegroova

    lovegroova
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    All new black cabs in London will have to be non-diesel from January 2018:
    Taxi and private hire requirements

    They have to be "zero-emission capable", so hybrids or fully electric.
     
  27. Delvey

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    A lot of people. Most people don't keep a car for longer than 10 years.
     
  28. Chevyonfuel

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    It's an excellent way to kill off the motor sport industry in the UK. You have just around 50,000 people employed within the industry, which produces around £9bn per year. EV racing isn't much of a thing outside Formula E, and doesn't appear to be growing (if anything, people are pushing for nostalgia and older, more classic vehicles).

    Those who dislike or have no interest in motor sport, often don't see how the R&D carried out filters down into their road cars, particularly on a safety note. ABS, seat belts, materials technology, crash structures, you name it - it started life in a racing application and filtered down to daily drivers. If you take that away, the manufacturers still in business will take longer to produce new cars.

    It'll be interesting to see how it pans out when that industry goes under, and niche car manufacturers go under as well (McLaren, Aston Martin[1], Lotus, Caterham, Morgan, the list goes on). Fingers crossed there's lots more Hinkley Point projects (which environmental folk appear to also hate) in the pipeline to produce all the electricity required to fuel the nation's vehicles.

    In reality, governments change and there might be a step change - perhaps existing petrol and diesel vehicles will be permitted to stay on the road but pay more VED. It's a nice idea, but unlikely since the majority of vehicles will be electric and the business model for a petrol station wont make much sense if they're primarily providing electricity.

    [1] The recent announcement of the RapidE EV is more to satisfy the Co2 range regulations, similar to the Cygnet a few years ago. It's unclear whether it's the start of something new.

    ETA: I'm talking a lot of crap, ignore the above folks :thumbsup:.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  29. IronGiant

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    The announcement is that no new petrol or diesel vehicles will be sold. It says nothing about existing vehicles or their sales, nor motorsport where the vehicles aren't usually bought, but rather built. And petrol hybrids are excluded so I can see a whole new industry growing where the hybrid section is, shall we say, minimal :)
     
  30. Stiggy

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    As someone who works in the energy industry, and a PHEV owner, I have some comments on some of the posts above:

    Duty/tax: like petrol, a large proportion of electricity costs are taxes, and it's going to get worse. We all already pay taxes towards new energy generation and renewable technologies. Domestic users pay 5% VAT on electricity, and most business pay 20%. No doubt you'd pay the higher VAT rate if you charged away from home.

    Motor industry and motorsport: F1 has already used hybrid technology, and Formula E is growing. Electric cars are already faster than traditional ICE cars. Just look on YouTube for Teslas thrashing everything else in a drag racing. Jaguar is producing a 'state of the art' electric I-Pace ready for next year, and niche British car makers are well placed to get ahead of the pack.

    Generation and the grid: as mentioned above, there is now less electricity consumed than ever in the UK. This is mostly due to all the energy efficiency drives in recent years (yes, they work). There is a challenge in getting high enough capacity (kVA) to charging locations. A group of car chargers at a service station can potentially have the same impact the grid as a large office block; this costs a lot to install and maintain. The other factor is the 'smart grid'; EVs have big batteries, so they can theoretically feed back into the grid if needed.

    Vehicle costs: at the moment, EVs are expensive. This is due to the relatively small volume of manufacture compared to ICE cars. The other factor is high battery prices. This cost is coming down rapidly, and most manufacturers have worked out that by 2020 the sums work out for them to make affordable cars with a decent range. EVs are potentially a lot simpler to make than a traditional car; much fewer moving parts.

    Once you've driven a good EV, a normal car feels like something out of the Stone Age. They are silent, fast acceleration, and cheap to run. It's going to happen.
     
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