New Denon coming next month?

[Hoddle63]

Hope this is true! When buying new plasma from Sound and Vision in Bolton the person from there told me that the new Donon 3808 and 4808 will be in stock early next month.
I was gobsmacked that it is coming so soon, cant wait to see True dolby on front of screen but not as much as hearing it. I will be buying one straight away to go with XE HD player and new pj. Probably 3808 expect 4808 to be around 1500, am I correct?
Hope this happens

 

[Greg Hook]

Same here! Can't wait for the 3808 to come out. My next AV Purchase for sure. Finding HD-DVD picture quality fantastic but find the sound not up to the same standard on my old 3802 so hopefully the 3808 will improve things.

 

[themmings]

Blast, haven't had time to save. I was banking on a July launch.

Good news though. I wonder what price tag the 4808ci will have on it?

 

[Jase]

cant wait to see True dolby on front of screen but not as much as hearing it.

Be a long wait seeing as HD-DVD discs are authored in the advanced content mode which mandates the players MUST performing the decoding on-board. The decoders in the Amp will be doing nothing and aren't likely to ever be used.

You can hear Dolby TrueHD here and now. All you need is an Amp with HDMI 1.1 audio capability. The Toshiba HD-XE1 etc decode the Dolby TrueHD signal and pass it as LPCM to the Amp.

 

[andy82]

Sweet....

I've been waiting on the Denon for a few months now

I can't wait to hear HD sounds at last

Andy

 

[owenfarmer]

In response to Jase, say for example my ps3 has dolby true hd on board but only standard DTS, are you saying that if i play say Kingdom of Heaven that has DTS-HD on the disc that the Denon 3808 will not decode it? i have been told by 2 retailers that you WILL need hdmi 1.3 to hear the next gen sound formats. Will somebody please clear this up as obviously there are many people who are not sure!

 

[Jase]

Depends how Blu-Ray discs are authored. Certainly in the case of HD-DVD's the players have to perform the decoding internally. If Blu-Ray discs are authored the same way then their players will also have to decode internally. If the player doesn't have the necessary decoder on-board then you'll be knackered, you'll only get the core DTS track.

You definitely don't need HDMI 1.3 for the next gen formats as I was quite happily listening to Dolby TrueHD last night via my Amp which is HDMI 1.1. Countless other people are doing the same.

 

[owenfarmer]

Time will tell i guess, but i for one am not certain and will definately purchase a reciever with 1.3 the retaillers who told me the need for 1.3 have been debating with me for 6months that you do NOT need 1.3, and that pcm is only telling you that the amp is not decoding but my point is that it doesn't tell you what you are listening to! where the 1.3 recievers will show this.

 

[kingfats]

In response to Jase, say for example my ps3 has dolby true hd on board but only standard DTS, are you saying that if i play say Kingdom of Heaven that has DTS-HD on the disc that the Denon 3808 will not decode it? i have been told by 2 retailers that you WILL need hdmi 1.3 to hear the next gen sound formats. Will somebody please clear this up as obviously there are many people who are not sure!

Retailers will tell you that you'll need the new HDMI 1.3 receivers to hear the next gen sound formats (they've got to sell them) but you don't!
I listen to the new HD soundtracks through my Denon 2807,no need for me to upgrade it's here and now.

 

[owenfarmer]

The retailers don't have any 1.3 recievers to sell! and it looks like Denon will be one of the few who do release in the next 3-6 months so it's actually in the retailers interests to take your angle on things and sell existing stock that we would happily buy if they said you do NOT need 1.3

 

[Jase]

Time will tell i guess, but i for one am not certain and will definately purchase a reciever with 1.3 the retaillers who told me the need for 1.3 have been debating with me for 6months that you do NOT need 1.3, and that pcm is only telling you that the amp is not decoding but my point is that it doesn't tell you what you are listening to! where the 1.3 recievers will show this.

I don't need an Amp to tell me what I'm listening to. I select the Dolby TrueHD track on the disc, the player decodes it and passes that to my Amp as lossless multichannel PCM. The Amp picks it up as a multichannel 24bit 96khz LPCM signal.

At the end of the day it's all lossless PCM, that's what Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD MA are. You can't get better than lossless audio.

Massive thread at AVS Forum about HDMI 1.3 here:-

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=789994

 

[owenfarmer]

Jase,
my point to you was regarding the dts, that will surely be decoded by the reciever? because the ps3 only has standard dts, i guess we will all see when the new recievers come out if there is any difference what so ever.

 

[kingfats]

The retailers don't have any 1.3 recievers to sell! and it looks like Denon will be one of the few who do release in the next 3-6 months so it's actually in the retailers interests to take your angle on things and sell existing stock that we would happily buy if they said you do NOT need 1.3

I know there's no 1.3 receivers at retail i was just making the point that retailers will big up the HDMI 1.3 feature as it's in their interest to do so.The line will probably be if your receiver has no 1.3 it's useless chuck it in the bin.
I could be wrong.

 

[Jase]

Jase,
my point to you was regarding the dts, that will surely be decoded by the reciever?

It's the way the disc is authored that dictates where decoding will be done, that's the problem. If the current crop of Blu-Ray discs that have DTS-HD MA tracks are authored so that the player must perform decoding, you'll need a player with a DTS-HD MA decoder (of which there aren't any yet). The best you'll get out of them will be the core DTS track.

If you plugged that player into an Amp with HDMI 1.3 and relevant DTS-HD MA decoder you still won't have the Amp doing the decoding as the player won't pass the bitstream signal to it because the disc won't allow it.

 

[owenfarmer]

Understand and agree completely with your points regarding the authoring of the disc, but i'm pretty sure the denon 3808 has the relevant decoders on board to handle the next gen sound formats, i for one hope so!

 

[Jase]

It will probably have the decoders on-board but if you can't get the signal to it to use those decoders because the discs won't allow it, they become redundant.

 

[VDG]

you may also want to check out Denon owners thread as its been discussed there as well..

 

[charliecossie]

I have read nothing that indicates the Denon 3808 will have DTS Master Audio decoding, only "DTS HD".

 

[Hoddle63]

I may be wrong but one point that we are all missing is the transfer of the 1920x1080 picture only available through 1.3.

So sky HD, blue ray and HD can be connected to amp and then with ONE lead only connected to in my case HD pj or someone else full HD plasma with a top quality picture and the sound will be took care of by the amp. Imagine picture from Blue ray or HD to the luckyones with the new JVC projector (mine panasonic)

We will not know till the amp is present and we have got one to sort all the confusion.

Like Owen I cant wait to get one, more information can be carried by 1.3 so surely its got to benefit somewhere or there would not be 1.3.
The confusion progresses.
phill

 

[Jules]

I may be wrong but one point that we are all missing is the transfer of the 1920x1080 picture only available through 1.3.

Woahh! I seriously hope this isn't a real concern because I've just ordered a Denon AVC-A11XVA with HDMI 1.1.

I'm not too fussed about it decoding DD True HD as it can be passed as LPCM, but I thought the whole point of the A11XVA over the previous A11XV was that it will pass 1080p.

I'll be cancelling the order if it can't do this.

 

[pils]

I may be wrong but one point that we are all missing is the transfer of the 1920x1080 picture only available through 1.3.

Sorry, you are wrong. You can pass 1080p through HDMI 1.1 with no problems, and the current crop of Denon recievers support this.

As far as video is concerned, HDMI 1.3 supports Deep Color (xvYCC), which can be used on TVs/projectors that support it (rather rare at the moment, just like HDMI 1.3). As previously mentioned on this thread, the bandwidth of HDMI was increased in 1.3. This increase in bandwidth allows it to support resolutions *higher* than 1080p (some ways into the future I hope, I've not even got around to upgrading to 1080p yet!). This increase in bandwidth also allows for the transport of higher bandwidth audio, i.e. Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. Though, as Jase has mentioned, this is not required as the HD-DVD & Blu-ray players should decode these new codecs in the player and output Linear PCM over HDMI 1.1.

Unfortunately, HDMI 1.3 is mostly a marketing ploy at the moment in my opinion, until screens that support Deep Color become more widespread.

Cheers.

 

[madshi]

Sorry, you are wrong. You can pass 1080p through HDMI 1.1 with no problems, and the current crop of Denon recievers support this.

As far as video is concerned, HDMI 1.3 supports Deep Color (xvYCC), which can be used on TVs/projectors that support it (rather rare at the moment, just like HDMI 1.3). As previously mentioned on this thread, the bandwidth of HDMI was increased in 1.3. This increase in bandwidth allows it to support resolutions *higher* than 1080p (some ways into the future I hope, I've not even got around to upgrading to 1080p yet!). This increase in bandwidth also allows for the transport of higher bandwidth audio, i.e. Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. Though, as Jase has mentioned, this is not required as the HD-DVD & Blu-ray players should decode these new codecs in the player and output Linear PCM over HDMI 1.1.

Unfortunately, HDMI 1.3 is mostly a marketing ploy at the moment in my opinion, until screens that support Deep Color become more widespread.

Some false information in there, too.

(1) You seem to say that DeepColor = xvYCC. That's not true. DeepColor first of all means RGB and YCbCr in higher bit depths (30/36/48 bit). xvYCC is a new feature on top of that.

(2) You don't need any higher bandwidth for Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio. Actually the bandwidth needed for these formats is *lower* than the bandwidth needed for multichannel PCM transport, which is already supported by HDMI 1.1.

 

[KMO]

Unfortunately, HDMI 1.3 is mostly a marketing ploy at the moment in my opinion, until screens that support Deep Color become more widespread.

Even then that's not much use for HD DVD or Blu-ray, which only store 8-bit-per-channel video, so the standard 12-bit-per-channel 4:2:2 YCbCr of HDMI 1.0 is more than adequate. Might help for games consoles I suppose. The deep colour stuff is more about professional applications than consumer kit.

Anyway, the real problem we have at the moment is the poor quality of LCD and plasma compared to CRT - throwing extra bits at the link isn't going to fix that.

 

[pils]

Some false information in there, too.

(1) You seem to say that DeepColor = xvYCC. That's not true. DeepColor first of all means RGB and YCbCr in higher bit depths (30/36/48 bit). xvYCC is a new feature on top of that.

(2) You don't need any higher bandwidth for Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio. Actually the bandwidth needed for these formats is *lower* than the bandwidth needed for multichannel PCM transport, which is already supported by HDMI 1.1.

Thanks for the corrections.

 

[Greg Hook]

My Denon 3802 I have had for a long time now, so even if the 3808 has a load of features that I can't currently use or aren't widely available yet, at least I will have an amp that will hopefully last me a similar length of time as my 3802 has done.