new build Cat 8 cable

twozero

Standard Member
do i need to use cat 8 cable to network my home? i'm very new to this and just wantto check te advice i've been given.

thanks :)
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
Cat5e is rated for 1Gbit at 90 metres.
 

vex

Well-known Member
do i need to use cat 8 cable to network my home? i'm very new to this and just wantto check te advice i've been given.

thanks :)

NO, NO, NO.

I have are several issues with the way some of the CAT8 systems are being sold and a well designed Cat5e and Coax system could easily out perform them.

Happy to help out with more advise or arguments against if you want.

V.
 

AndyH747

Active Member
Hi All,

Sorry to hijack this thread but I'm after similar advice. I'm in the process of starting a new build and want to 'future proof' the house as far as possible. I'm only starting to look at integrated control and distribution so could do with some advice. There seems to be so many options and different companies offering what they all say is the best system! I've had a look at Singlepointnetworks.co.uk which uses Cat8 cable to distribute multiple feeds from a single location. This does look attractive and seems to offer an all in one solution. However most of the forums seem to think Cat8 is not the easiest to use or very compatible.

I'd like to put in all the required cabling in at the build stage even if I can't afford the actual distribution system interface. I've looked at Netstreams which looks impressive but no idea on cost.

Can anyone recommend a company who could advise on the cabling required and the most suitable system for my needs. I'm located in Gloucestershire if anyone knows of a local company.

Thanks in advance.
 

vex

Well-known Member
Hi AndyH747.

I am not keen on Cat8 or more importantly, the way it is being promoted.

Before you start thinking about the type of system you want to use, think about the solution that you want to achieve.

This will help installers give you a range of solutions to meet yor ideas and / or costs.

We would be happy to work with you as wired-life and one of our partners supports on here allot and is in your area.

Use the link in my sig to talk to hornydragon directly or send him a pm.

Vex
 
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hornydragon

Distinguished Member
I'd like to put in all the required cabling in at the build stage even if I can't afford the actual distribution system interface. I've looked at Netstreams which looks impressive but no idea on cost.

Can anyone recommend a company who could advise on the cabling required and the most suitable system for my needs. I'm located in Gloucestershire if anyone knows of a local company.

Thanks in advance.

If you would like some advice and even a pricing on various solutions have a look Wired Life Home Page While cat8 and singlepoint is a nice idea its a lot less flexible than other solutions and due to the specialist nature of the termination and cabling the costs soon mount up. If you are doing a full refurb of a property or building from new you can put in a very flexible infrastructure for a very reasonable sum which will allow you to run everthing from a couple of extra phone points to a full Audio and Video distribution solution.
 

AndyH747

Active Member
Thanks guys for the feedback and advice. I'll have a look at the website. I'd like to discuss things further so will pm you for further contact.

Thanks again.:)
 

Trollslayer

Distinguished Member
do i need to use cat 8 cable to network my home? i'm very new to this and just wantto check te advice i've been given.

thanks :)

Cat8 is only of use if you are going to try and send analogue 75 Ohm signals along 100 Ohm wires and then out to 75 Ohm loads. Needless to say this idea can create lots of problems.
For digital signals, Cat5e is rated for 1Gb/sec up to 90m, I would expect even Cat5 to be fine within a house.
 

hornydragon

Distinguished Member
Cat8 is only of use if you are going to try and send analogue 75 Ohm signals along 100 Ohm wires and then out to 75 Ohm loads. Needless to say this idea can create lots of problems.
For digital signals, Cat5e is rated for 1Gb/sec up to 90m, I would expect even Cat5 to be fine within a house.

Even if you want to send 75 Ohm video over cat5 you can you just need impeadence matching baluns... Cat5e can carry alot more than cat8 when used with baluns for example 1080p video with audio and IR control all down 1 cat5e
 

JohnWH

Active Member
Even if you want to send 75 Ohm video over cat5 you can you just need impeadence matching baluns... Cat5e can carry alot more than cat8 when used with baluns for example 1080p video with audio and IR control all down 1 cat5e

I do not beleive this is correct. Cat8 cable still consists of 4 twisted pairs just like cat5, with each pair having exactly the same characteristic impedance as cat5 i.e. it is backwardly compatible with cat5 so any kit designed for cat 5 should work with cat8 cabling.

However cat8 it is constructed to much tigher tolerances than cat5 and also introduces per pair screening (as does cat7) to minimise inter pair cross talk, this means that cat8 is capable of carrying a lot more bandwidth than cat5. So use of cat8 will give you a more future proof installation, however it does cost quite a bit more.

Edit, here's an artical on cat8 http://www.hiddenwires.co.uk/resourcesarticles2005/articles20050905-03.html

John.
 
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hornydragon

Distinguished Member
I do not beleive this is correct.

Not true there are systems smart-e for example which will run on Cat5 cat5e and cat6 but not on cat7 or cat8 there is more at work and per pair sheilding while a benefit in some circumstnaces is not a benefit for all aplications......

This is one example of where a home wired with cat5 has more options than one wired with cat8...
Smart-e is the only system that can deliver 1080p video in YPbPr VGA and RGBcvS with audio and control down a single cable.

CT100 and WF100 has much higher bandwith than Cat7 or cat8 it isnt all about bandwidth and domestic data requirements are very unlikely to go beyond 100Mbps even IP Video can run on 100Mbps full Duplex
 
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JohnWH

Active Member
Isn't it actully the case that the smart-e systems have just not been qualified against cat 7 or 8 cabling?

Compatiility asside cat 7 and cat 8 will carry more bandwidth than cat5e, to suggest otheriwse is simply wrong.

Edit : and to add to this, the smart-e faq states compatibility cate 5+ cable networks i.e. they are compatible with cat 7 or 8.

John.
 
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hornydragon

Distinguished Member
Isn't it actully the case that the smart-e systems have just not been qualified against cat 7 or 8 cabling?

Compatiility asside cat 7 and cat 8 will carry more bandwidth than cat5e, to suggest otheriwse is simply wrong.

John.

Purely on bandwidth Cat8 will carry more (still less than RG6 or WF100 tho) is Cat8 more future proof? No as no one knows what the future is all you can say is ait has more bandwidth which may be useful in future. More cores may be more important than bandwith, no ones knows yet
 

JohnWH

Active Member
Purely on bandwidth Cat8 will carry more (still less than RG6 or WF100 tho) is Cat8 more future proof? No as no one knows what the future is all you can say is ait has more bandwidth which may be useful in future. More cores may be more important than bandwith, no ones knows yet

As we move to a more and more digital world bandwidth is king. Obviously More cores also = more bandwidth, however having knock holes in all your walls because you chose to stick with cat5 a few years ago doesn't sound like a future proofed system to me.

The problem with single ended cables is that they have relatively poor noise immunity (there is no common mode rejection), this is one of the reason why twisted pair is the pervasive standard for networking.

John.
 

hornydragon

Distinguished Member
As we move to a more and more digital world bandwidth is king.
IS it? The whole point of moving from analogue to digital was the ability to compress and send more data in the same bandwidth least it was in my lectures a few years ago!!!
 

JohnWH

Active Member
IS it? The whole point of moving from analogue to digital was the ability to compress and send more data in the same bandwidth least it was in my lectures a few years ago!!!

Yes it is. Compression is only a requirement as we don't have sufficient storage or bandwidth to move uncompressed video around cheaply. Lossy compression as used for distribution of modern content, although very good these days, is still a compromise between bandwidth and quality i.e. more bandwidth still = more quality.

John.
 

vex

Well-known Member
Can I throw another one into the mix?

How does Cat8 cope with satellite frequencies, running up to 2100MHz (2.1GHz)?

Or wanting two seperate network points at the same location?

V.
 

JohnWH

Active Member
Can I throw another one into the mix?

How does Cat8 cope with satellite frequencies, running up to 2100MHz (2.1GHz)?

Or wanting two seperate network points at the same location?

V.

It copes in exactly the same way cat5 does i.e. you don't use it for feeding raw satelite feed, thats what your CT100 etc is for.

John.
 

vex

Well-known Member
So for a in room freesat or sky box to be connected you need coax as well as CAT8?

Sort of defeats the objective doesn't it?

V.
 

JohnWH

Active Member
That would be the currently recommended approach, it doesn't defeat the object at all as the idea is that the CT100 gives you a simple way of distributing non base band signals along side your base band/data network,

Note that I think may be possible to get a sat signal down cat8 cable with a bit of technical fiddling, but I don't think there's any products currently available that will do it.

To be clear on this, I understand that this ultimately comes down to cost, but I think its worth questioning why cat5 is being recommended over say cat6a which is only marginally more expensive yet offers BW that is 10x that of cat5e (6a certified for 10GBit networks I believe).

In my opinion, if you're burying infrastructure in your walls its worth making it as future proof as you can afford..

John.
 

hornydragon

Distinguished Member
It copes in exactly the same way cat5 does i.e. you don't use it for feeding raw satelite feed, thats what your CT100 etc is for.

John.

But that is not how cat8 is marketed, it is marketed as a solution which doesn't require coax just a double run of cat8 which for the cost i cant see it being worthwhile over 2 cat5e and 2 CT100. if you are going to run 2 x cat8 and 2 x CT100 then your defeating the point of cat8 being able to carry all sources. (and as its limited to 25m on Sat signals and uses a pair for each Sat signal you soon run out of pairs for running Data + phone+SAT+DTT) If you want max bandwidth pull Fibre it has much higher data rates than copper and with Light frequncy multiplexing huge amounts of data can pass down a single strand. I cant see domwestic data rate greater than 1Gig being required in my professional life time, feel fre to remind me of this in 30 years! The reason is the limit of getting data into the home is currently 100Mbps this is on Fibre to dwelling connections and realistic rates are lower even with a very high speed conenction to the outside world local traffic at 1GBPS is more than enough for multiple HD VIP data streams The switch gear becomes the limiting factor much soner than the Copper Cat5e is still used for commercial apps with multiple servers and users with IP voice connections running ont op of the data streams!
 

JohnWH

Active Member
But why install cat5e when you can install cat6a for 5% more cost and give yourself 10x the bandwidth headroom.

The fact that cat8 can transmit a sat signal is an advantage not a disadvantage as the fact that you can do it means that you can install cables that can be applied to applications that cat5e can't touch.

Personally I think its quite short sighted to think that 1GB is enough for the forseable future, after I remember people asking who woudl ever need more than 1MB of memory in their PC etc. Basically future proofing is never a bad idea.

You're right, fiber is also an option, but that appears to coem at a higher cost than even cat8.

John.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
A decent network of conduit with lots of pull wires/access points is about the only way to realistically 'future proof' your house.

Joe
 

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