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New Blu-Ray pics and info anf the IFA in berlin.

Discussion in 'TVs' started by loadsofleads, Sep 11, 2005.

  1. loadsofleads

    loadsofleads
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    Some more Blu-Ray goodies to salivate over here. Scroll down to the bottom of the page and hear how their rivals were struggling to get a HD-DVD player to work at the show, shame :rolleyes:
     
  2. kourosh

    kourosh
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    hey thanks for the pictures,the blu ray machines look really cool even though they aint the final products,we have to wait at least 12months before they are available to europe :( :( i hate waiting :rolleyes: :(
     
  3. AML

    AML
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    What I find amusing is that all those players that had a rear panel shot had analog component conections.
    One player was even being shown through D4 which is basically component in japan.

    Most did have HDMI but only Sharps model was being shown through it.

    All this talk about HDCP and they dont even follow their own rules?

    Im sure it wont be long before people will find a way to watch HD DVD and Blu Rays through analog outputs!!!
     
  4. loadsofleads

    loadsofleads
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    Do as I say not as I do please ignorant consumer :nono: :nono: :lesson: :lesson:
     
  5. loadsofleads

    loadsofleads
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    Notice how they all have a modem connection on the back.......... :(
     
  6. AML

    AML
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    Yeah. Im worried we will need to conect our players to the internet in order to play disks.

    Currently though, these conections are used for "EPG" in japan. (Remember that most of these models came directly from japan.)

    These players are also recorders and a lot of people who record from digital TV use EPG to program their players to record stuff automaticaly.

    Im sure the lan port will have other uses though.
     
  7. ianh64

    ianh64
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    Can someone please explain to me why the preference seems to be for blu-ray. Surely a few GB storage cannot be the only reason. Some people have said its down to how the studios are aligned but this have been going on since before the studios showed their hand and you only seem to have to blink and its all change again yet people still seem to be anti HD-DVD.

    Last thing that I heard that "Sony is using MPEG2 at 18 Mbps for their BD titles". It is certainly nothing to write home about since D-Theater is apparently > 21 Mbps and beyond using the same compression system so we have an existing format that sounds like it will be better PQ than Sony's offering on blu-ray. Maybe that is why they need the extra storage as their compression schemes are not as efficient.

    -Ian
     
  8. loadsofleads

    loadsofleads
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    I personally think the CEO of Sony would rather eat rotten Sushi than use MPEG 2 on Blu-Ray, it will be MPEG 4, of that there is no doubt. Personally I back Blu-Ray not only for the extra capacity (which can be increased upon exponentially over the present 50GB) but that it is media that has been built from the ground up. It will use HD menus, HD-DVD will not, the data transfer rate has a maximum limit of 54.8mps, HD-DVD's maximum is 36.5mps, etc etc. Don't get me wrong HD-DVD is much better than DVD, but I have a gut feeling that Blu-Ray will offer so much more
     
  9. Starburst

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    Interesting question.
    I heard of Blu-ray before HD-DVD and it's spec were certainly more impressive not to mention being recordable from the word go (if required) so the early battles were won by the SONY brand (another major issue).
    I also recall that early talk was for HD-DVD to use red laser for economic and technical reasons which as far as I was concerned was pathetic, in hindsight that rumour(?) more than anything swayed me to blu-ray.
    Nothing has changed really, if both products enter the UK market next year then if I had to buy one Blu-ray would probably be it although as in the VHS/Betamax wars content could eventually be the deciding factor.



    When you are talkign about video quality around 18mbps for well mastered/encoded pre-recorded media the difference I suspect becomes insignificant between that and say video above 21mbps. As for SONY stating high bitrate mpeg2 well that still leaves other studios free to use mpeg4, VC1 or another exotic codec as they see fit. I believe Warner are going to use VC1 on the HD-DVD discs?
     
  10. tim k

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    well i for one really want one of those nec hd-dvd drives so i can start backin up my 200gig of .ts files!!

    It says a christams europe launch, any know how much theyll be?? I'd be happy to pay 200 quid for one.
     
  11. ianh64

    ianh64
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    Isn't that drive only a reader ? Without any media to read it is about as useful as a car in downtown New Orleans.
     
  12. Starburst

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    Yeah, a lot of money for a read only drive:)
    For the time being a large capacity hard drive (300gig under £100) is a practical solution.
     
  13. supermackem

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    Wow those units are hugeeeee. Look like an old betamax player i have in the loft.:)
     
  14. AML

    AML
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    They do look rather large. Dont know if I can fit one! More money spent on new furniture too!! :(

    Recordable Blu Ray players are already availabe in Japan just now. The best one out is the sharp one they had on display in that Berlin show.
    They do record hi def stuff, but only though component. (D4)

    Disks available go from 25gb to 50gb.

    A PC version is what I want. So much data that needs backing up. DVDs are just so small these days! (never thought i would see the day!)
     
  15. Drew2

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    If I am not mistaken, IO Data or Buffalo are making a computer version of this drive - will need to investigate again. :rolleyes:

    All went quite when Hitachi & Toshiba joined forces to produce a green laser HD player using a 46Gb disc. So don't know if the above are waiting for the outcome of that. ;)

    China has just gone full HD broadcasting and HD discs are available to be played on the up and coming players- they ain't Blu-ray so if Japan don't develop cheap HD players then China will! :thumbsup:

    Sony BDZ -S77 is 215,000 yen about 1,120 quid
    Sharp BD-HD100 is 198,280 about 1,033
    Panasonic DMR-E700 BD is 214,800 about 1,119

    Cheers the noo :)
     
  16. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    :D No HDMI? Well it might just be a hint that these devices are not as close to production as the companies might have you believe :D

    Blue ray currently in Japan is VERY different to the product that might be launched here, VERY.

    Blue ray wins on spec, HD DVD wins on speed of market delivery, the customer looses on both :(
     
  17. Jim_Fear

    Jim_Fear
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    Dont forget that those RJ45 network ports could also be for diagnostics, its not unusual for companies to use such ports for diagnostics on devices, I cant imagine you'd need to connect it up unless maybe its one with a HDD and you can have network connectivity to use it as a media center or something.
     
  18. cerebros

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    I don't think the format issue is going to be decided conclusively this time round. Unlike with video tape, the new generation of discs will be trying to muscle into 3 seperate areas: home cinema, personal computers, and games consoles.

    At present things are up for grabs in the first two and rather than any proper resolution through a compromise format we'll probably end up with something akin to the current SACD/DVD-Audio or DVD +/- situation where the manufacturers ends up producing "universal" decks or drives capable of playing all formats. If universal decks appear at a reasonable price soon enough after the launch of both formats I wouldn't be surprised to see both formats surviving.

    (Personally I'd favour Blu-Ray for computer use as its higher capacities will be preferable for back-up's (it's a right royal pain backing stuff up to DVD-RAM right now, although the 16x DVD-RAM standard due early next year should make that less painless))

    The third area, games consoles, pretty much decides itself. Sony will use Blu-Ray for PS3 and MS will use HD-DVD if they do decide to launch a version of the XBox 360.
     
  19. Mr. Wilby

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    Lots of talk in the HW forum @ TheDvdForums that BR will feature internet-based verification (i.e check with some server to see if you are allowed to play it). I won't be buying (BR or HD-DVD) if that's the case....
     
  20. Jim_Fear

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    If they seriously go ahead with that I would be peeved, how the hell would they determine who can and cannot play content...grrrr, that would agrivate me because i know it would be just my luck that it would go wrong somehow
     
  21. cerebros

    cerebros
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    From what I've read in opinion pieces on DVDFile it appears both camps are heading down that direction. Apparently it's all to do with decryption keys being revoked if a particular player or discs encryption is cracked. Not fully up on this so not sure if the writer has got the wrong end of the stick or not (or whether I'm just not getting my head around what he's saying), but he's talking about possible situations where you've got a legally bought player and disc, but because there are hacked versions of the player about newer discs will have code on that will disable the player from being able to play them or something like that.

    Scary stuff if correct and commercial disaster IMO, as people would be constantly going back to their stores to get players reenabled and stuff. If anything this sort of protection would force normally law-abiding consumers to consider pirate material to overcome the restrictions and inconvenience.
     
  22. AML

    AML
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    At the moment only hard core AV enthusiasts are even thinking about Blu Ray and HD DVD.
    And most of us look for things like MR in a player. If they stop us from doing that a lot of people will put off buying these new players untill something can be done.

    If thats the case there wont be as many early adopters as sony and toshiba think.

    Average Joe wont dig into these new formats right away from fear of buying "the wrong one" due to there being 2 formats.

    The rest of the world will simply say "DVD is good enough" and leave it at that.

    I can see these formats being total failures and going the way of DVD-A and SACD.
     
  23. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    This early adopter is less than happy and is likely to pass.
     
  24. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    In the short term (IMHO) the problem is much more that average joe won't 'dig' into these formats because he won't have a compatible TV...simple as that. For the initial launch the machines will be aimed at a niche market much as SACD and DVD-Audio have been. That said the lack of a unified format will harm the new discs - Samsung and others have announced they will release dual format machines but odds are these are going to be twin drive solutions (much like the Panasonic E700) and so the sheer size will put many off :(

    Personally I am going to be an early adopter - there isn't much choice if you want high def material on disc. I have seen the HD DVD prototype and was impressed by what I saw - certainly some of the proposed launch titles are more than enough for me to invest in a machine. BluRay haven't announced any launch titles yet - but I'm sure there release range will also justify a purchase now they have 20th Century Fox onboard. It's disappointing there are two formats as it could harm long term adoption - but in the short term it's probably irrelevant. Those who want high def material on disc will buy one or both.
     
  25. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
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    I already have a way. Go to www.Keene.co.uk and search for DVIFIX. Use an HDMI to DVI cable to connect that. Daisy-chain that with a Key Digital ClearColor 3 (KD-VTCA3) to convert the Analog RGB into Y/Pb/Pr for your Component display. This is what I plan to do, anyway.

    As far as I know, both of these devices operate with minimal video lag so I can't see why this wouldn't work.
     
  26. ianh64

    ianh64
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    Until it gets disabled by playing source media/broadcast with the DVIFIX device on the revocation list.

    Some people believe that this will never happen as it will disable all legitimate devices manufacturered using the same chipset but the hdmi specifications indicate that the granularity of the secret device key is much greater than at the chipset level and can be implemented at the individual device level by a flash update as happens on most TV's at the time of manufacture - my TV for instance has its own unique MAC address so there is no reason why it does not have its own device secret key too.

    Want to know the reason why these devices do now work on some makes/models of DVD players already, ie Arcam - could it because they already have a revocation list that includes the key of the dvi->vga converter?

    Noone knows the true facts and it is all a gamble.
     
  27. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    and it only works with some devices. 1 in 3 is my average hit rate here but I always pick the hard targets :)
     
  28. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    oh and by the way my hard targets are HDMI HD sources :)
     
  29. eternaldark

    eternaldark
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    what would happen to those people that cannot get broadband to connect their HD devices to! Where i live i cannot get broadband and even if i could theres no way i would connect a player to it anyway, i would be forever paranoid every time I played a disc if it would melt or explode!! lol
     
  30. Jim_Fear

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    I wonder if the same rules will apply for the PS3? (and Xbox360 if they go HD-DVD)
     

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