New AV set up - help speaker placement 5.1 longer term 7.1

decson74

Active Member
Hi all

So I have finally made the plunge and ordered a Denon 3700 with Q Accoustics 5.1 speakers, to replace my ageing (and often crashing) Lifestyle 28. Hoping it will make a big difference! And was too worried if went for the 2700, I'd always think what if I had of got the 3700 lol.

Firstly apologies for mess, doing changes now pre decoration so flats all over the place lol. New sofa arriving next month (and dog is camera shy lol).

Front speaker wise I think I am good with the X's marking the spot on each side of TV with slight tilt down aimed to sofa, note moving to 65" tv in next few months.

frontroom.jpg


But the surrounds are causing confusion, I aim to keep the wires in place that are used fore the Bose satellites as seems a good opportunity to move to 7.1 (rear speakers) when finances allow it; though still debating if I need it as mainly just stream movies, apple tv 4k - hence new tv will be 4k dole vision ready; will 7.1 make a difference?

But then where for surrounds? you can see the X's on the pics as initial ideas, would be 1 and half foot (ish) behind sofa and 2-3 ft above listening position. Ideally would love to put them above the picture rail, but my research says 2-3ft above is better. I don't really want them directly on each side of sofa as will look wierd.

Though concerned that they are too close the rear speakers and move to 7.1 if do invest in future as would put where the Bose speakers are if do.

broom.jpg

bls.jpg
brs.jpg


So what do you all think? Recommend?

Thanks

Garry
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Is there way to keep the speakers on top of the unit like below, if the apple tv and other stuff would be moved? The aim would be to have the tweeters at seated ear height. You didn´t mention which models you bought but i think it would look very odd if you mount QA 3020i which are quite deep speakers on walls. On the picture you see the old 3010 as front heights, the new ones are larger and when they are middle of wall they are quite in your face. The QA wall brackets are quite raw looking.

dsc_0097_small-jpg.779131



I hope you got good deal and also changed the poor slim subwoofer to either QB12 (+130£) or some other. If you didn´t then contact your dealer if you can spend the extra bucks.


 

decson74

Active Member
Is there way to keep the speakers on top of the unit like below, if the apple tv and other stuff would be moved? The aim would be to have the tweeters at seated ear height. You didn´t mention which models you bought but i think it would look very odd if you mount QA 3020i which are quite deep speakers on walls. On the picture you see the old 3010 as front heights, the new ones are larger and when they are middle of wall they are quite in your face. The QA wall brackets are quite raw looking.

dsc_0097_small-jpg.779131



I hope you got good deal and also changed the poor slim subwoofer to either QB12 (+130£) or some other. If you didn´t then contact your dealer if you can spend the extra bucks.


Hi

I planned to put the 3700 where the Bose unit was so aimed to put the 3 front speakers on wall - went with the 3010i package deal from Peter Tyson. Initially just using the slim sub woofer, as will fit to the left hand side of the unit where the current Bose sub is but planned to get another one in future to add more weight to it.

Its an interesting idea to redo the lay out and put speakers on the unit. Only concern is the centre would be very low. But this would save me the head ache of putting the speakers on the wall (and cost of the brackets lol).

I'd initially thought of going for this approach.
IMG_1776.PNG


Which would sound better?

I guess I could eventually add 3010's as heights if went your suggested route too. (Cheaper than 3010i) and 3010's for rear too. (cost of 2 pairs of 3010s is only a little more than 1 pair of 3010is!)
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I kinda hoped the av-unit has decent height so all three would be placed on same level. You wouldn´t put center channel inside cabinet as that would be huge mistake. Picture can trick you so can you measure from floor to top of the av-unit? Center channel can be aimed to shoot upwards, but ideally it shouldn´t go too low. There is also some DIY or other solutions to buy/build some table stand for it to raise it up.

Really shame you bought the gear before chatting here. 3070 sub is discontinued very soon if not yet and it has lot of amp failures and the bass quality seems very poor by owners feedback here. There would have been alternative option called BK Double Gem (283mm width), but you would have bought the bundle deal without the sub. You can buy as many 3070 as you like but it roll offs around 35hz so quite poor and with the issues/sound quality being what it is.. Quality subwoofer can play such big role for the whole system in mind. That´s why most people opt product from company that specializes in woofers, there is no matching requirements for speakers and woofers.

 

decson74

Active Member
I kinda hoped the av-unit has decent height so all three would be placed on same level. You wouldn´t put center channel inside cabinet as that would be huge mistake. Picture can trick you so can you measure from floor to top of the av-unit? Center channel can be aimed to shoot upwards, but ideally it shouldn´t go too low. There is also some DIY or other solutions to buy/build some table stand for it to raise it up.

Really shame you bought the gear before chatting here. 3070 sub is discontinued very soon if not yet and it has lot of amp failures and the bass quality seems very poor by owners feedback here. There would have been alternative option called BK Double Gem (283mm width), but you would have bought the bundle deal without the sub. You can buy as many 3070 as you like but it roll offs around 35hz so quite poor and with the issues/sound quality being what it is.. Quality subwoofer can play such big role for the whole system in mind. That´s why most people opt product from company that specializes in woofers, there is no matching requirements for speakers and woofers.

Hi

The unit is only 30cms high.

As I sit at a distance it would be max 2 fit below ears. Lol

Only other concern is left and right speakers can only really go as far as tape measure in pic but would be under the corners of a 65” tv when upgrade. Would that work?

Regarding sub it’s actually the 3060s not the 3070. or is that still as bad?

Thanks

Garry
 

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decson74

Active Member
I kinda hoped the av-unit has decent height so all three would be placed on same level. You wouldn´t put center channel inside cabinet as that would be huge mistake. Picture can trick you so can you measure from floor to top of the av-unit? Center channel can be aimed to shoot upwards, but ideally it shouldn´t go too low. There is also some DIY or other solutions to buy/build some table stand for it to raise it up.

Really shame you bought the gear before chatting here. 3070 sub is discontinued very soon if not yet and it has lot of amp failures and the bass quality seems very poor by owners feedback here. There would have been alternative option called BK Double Gem (283mm width), but you would have bought the bundle deal without the sub. You can buy as many 3070 as you like but it roll offs around 35hz so quite poor and with the issues/sound quality being what it is.. Quality subwoofer can play such big role for the whole system in mind. That´s why most people opt product from company that specializes in woofers, there is no matching requirements for speakers and woofers.

Being visual. Did you mean something like this?

AE86FCF1-A855-43EA-B7D4-40FC94410961.png

Or if thats too low something like this?

78FE1D3B-17FF-4C8E-A93E-42A807B66E65.png


im guessing front heights are more beneficial than rear speakers?
Though technically the Denon 3700 could do both.

Thoughts ?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Ah that is tricky, both aren`t what i would accept for myself. 30cm being too low as typical speaker stands are 60cm so they stay too low. And mounting the speakers so high doesn´t make much sense either, well perhaps look wise but is it not possible to mount them so they would be at "correct" height meaning you ask your gf/wife to measure the height from floor to your ears when seated and apply that height to your main speakers (tweeters)?

The front mains should be about 2meters apart minium. And same distance from each main to center so the stuff on the unit would need to go.

If there is some possibility to mount the new tv bit higher and then you would mount the center channel right below it (as high as possible). These seem quite handy and cheap for the center channel:

Amazon product

If you dream of height channels you really would need to have the main speakers and surround speakers rather lower than higher cause you want height separation between bed layer channels to those height channels. Imagine when you listen some Atmos / DTS:X flick and all the speakers are mounted high, then you don´t get as noticeable effect as you would otherwise for the overhead effects if all sound comes high up. For the surrounds they can be little higher sure, but i wouldn`t like the idea with the front mains. If optimized i would go for 7.1.2 if possible although the surround backs should be 1meter away or so, not really close or as high as Boses so perhaps 5.1.2 in that case.

3060s should be hopefully better sounding and fingers crossed the amp is more reliable. Performance wise it leaves lot to desire being small slim with 8" woofer, but you can upgrade that later so not really end of world. It would have been so easy to swap now as your order isn´t likely yet shipped so one phone call away, but up to you..
 

decson74

Active Member
Ah that is tricky, both aren`t what i would accept for myself. 30cm being too low as typical speaker stands are 60cm so they stay too low. And mounting the speakers so high doesn´t make much sense either, well perhaps look wise but is it not possible to mount them so they would be at "correct" height meaning you ask your gf/wife to measure the height from floor to your ears when seated and apply that height to your main speakers (tweeters)?

The front mains should be about 2meters apart minium. And same distance from each main to center so the stuff on the unit would need to go.

If there is some possibility to mount the new tv bit higher and then you would mount the center channel right below it (as high as possible). These seem quite handy and cheap for the center channel:

Amazon product

If you dream of height channels you really would need to have the main speakers and surround speakers rather lower than higher cause you want height separation between bed layer channels to those height channels. Imagine when you listen some Atmos / DTS:X flick and all the speakers are mounted high, then you don´t get as noticeable effect as you would otherwise for the overhead effects if all sound comes high up. For the surrounds they can be little higher sure, but i wouldn`t like the idea with the front mains. If optimized i would go for 7.1.2 if possible although the surround backs should be 1meter away or so, not really close or as high as Boses so perhaps 5.1.2 in that case.

3060s should be hopefully better sounding and fingers crossed the amp is more reliable. Performance wise it leaves lot to desire being small slim with 8" woofer, but you can upgrade that later so not really end of world. It would have been so easy to swap now as your order isn´t likely yet shipped so one phone call away, but up to you..
Thanks. Final mock ups for you.
Have already ordered a centre speaker shelf so the plan was under the tv directly.
7EFBD9E5-A907-486A-AABD-FA6844A4BD49.png

with measuring tape the left and right are at listening height. The front heights in the corners would be just under 4 ft away from them. Would that work?

or
23686E05-8C2A-4870-AAF7-01BC7ED24A4B.png

Centre speaker on wall.
2 front speakers on unit with slight tilts. Then 2 front heights directly above with tilt down.

I like idea of the speakers on the unit. But agreed they are low hence thought centre on wall the other 2 with tilt.

Thank you!
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Should be plenty then if you measured the tweeters on 3010i being around seated ear height. If you can mount the 3010i on wall at correct height and can also decide how far apart they are i would first listen them on top of the av-unit just use the boxes under them which they come with and push them more apart and closer. This is because you are wall mounting them so you can´t really change that later so you want to get the placement spot on.

Just wondering will you want another bulky speakers below the ceiling and you need to have some kind of brackets that lets you angle them down good amount. Also the old 3010 looks bit different, not sure which finish you picked. You have of course other options like QA 7000i pair or totally different brand speakers which are kinda made for that with the correct angle so they would be mounted flush against wall with couple screws (keyholes at rear). These two can be wall mounted easily, but perhaps will cost bit too much. You could look the first one used too.



Eltax would be cheap option, but i don´t know how you would mount them as they didn´t put the keyholes for screw mounting so they are basically stuck on used as upfiring bounce type. Shame!
 

decson74

Active Member
Should be plenty then if you measured the tweeters on 3010i being around seated ear height. If you can mount the 3010i on wall at correct height and can also decide how far apart they are i would first listen them on top of the av-unit just use the boxes under them which they come with and push them more apart and closer. This is because you are wall mounting them so you can´t really change that later so you want to get the placement spot on.

Just wondering will you want another bulky speakers below the ceiling and you need to have some kind of brackets that lets you angle them down good amount. Also the old 3010 looks bit different, not sure which finish you picked. You have of course other options like QA 7000i pair or totally different brand speakers which are kinda made for that with the correct angle so they would be mounted flush against wall with couple screws (keyholes at rear). These two can be wall mounted easily, but perhaps will cost bit too much. You could look the first one used too.



Eltax would be cheap option, but i don´t know how you would mount them as they didn´t put the keyholes for screw mounting so they are basically stuck on used as upfiring bounce type. Shame!
Thank you so much!

Well going with carbon black, as room is being decorated to a grey/sage colour so will look good.

Confession, during our chat I got all excited about Atmos... and found another pair of 3010i's on eBay for just £100! So even cheaper than the 3010's. Put a bid on them and got them for £102 lol. The 3010i's are only a little bigger than the 3010's so wall friendly. Will use the proper brackets for them which can tilt, and then the centre speaker is going on a shelf.

So I guess I go 5.1.2 now... Just working out if option A just below ceiling or option B just below picture rail (one day I will get rid of it lol).

Considering I was originally looking at the 2700 package, this got very expensive this weekend. But every review says its worth the upgrade to the 3700; and doing this before decorating makes sense.
 

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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Just below ceiling so A is most likely best option to get good amount of separation. I have seen few systems on the US forums where the height channels have been placed wider than mains and then aimed toward listeners. So that is still option.

Yep the 3700H was good choice, more future proof in few ways and better Audussey version with dual sub eq (individual level&delay set for each), preouts etc.
 

decson74

Active Member
Just below ceiling so A is most likely best option to get good amount of separation. I have seen few systems on the US forums where the height channels have been placed wider than mains and then aimed toward listeners. So that is still option.

Yep the 3700H was good choice, more future proof in few ways and better Audussey version with dual sub eq (individual level&delay set for each), preouts etc.
Yes would look tidier in corners just below ceiling... so may go that way. :)
 

decson74

Active Member
Just below ceiling so A is most likely best option to get good amount of separation. I have seen few systems on the US forums where the height channels have been placed wider than mains and then aimed toward listeners. So that is still option.

Yep the 3700H was good choice, more future proof in few ways and better Audussey version with dual sub eq (individual level&delay set for each), preouts etc.
Sorry to reach out again. But reading other posts do you think the little minx speakers would work for Atmos as well.

Just thinking it will look a lot on wall lol. Or would the 3010is make a big difference for Atmos. I can find another use for the ones I got cheaper or sell on to a friend. So no money lost.

If you think it’s worth it to use the 3010is I will go for it. :)
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Sorry to reach out again. But reading other posts do you think the little minx speakers would work for Atmos as well.

Just thinking it will look a lot on wall lol. Or would the 3010is make a big difference for Atmos. I can find another use for the ones I got cheaper or sell on to a friend. So no money lost.

If you think it’s worth it to use the 3010is I will go for it. :)

Well the 3010i are better speakers! I have owned QA 2010i and Minx 10s so have some idea. I did mention here earlier that they will look quite big on wall as you are mounting the other stuff too. Perhaps wait you get those on wall and then think about which way to go. Minxes are very small and the 10s were quite thin sounding vs normal bookshelf speakers, but many seems to enjoy them and if that is only option then they are clearly the way to go (22 model preferably). Purely performance wise QAs would be better, but personally i couldn´t do that in living room. Just would look bit too much as you said.

Post #64 has the pictures:
 

decson74

Active Member
Getting two 22’s kinda blows budget now lol.
But ordering the minx 12’s in white will blend in well for front heights. Keeping the 3010i’s just in case. Worst case could use those for rear heights :) as no one looks that way :). So could end up with 5.1.4 😂.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
You also need the wall brackets.


Save up for 22s! :) One month saving.. They have the extra driver which reportedly makes big difference.
 

decson74

Active Member
@Gasp3621

Ha ha you should be a salesman! Unless you are :) Sadly next few months is for new tv and redecorating :)

Already ordered the 12's with brackets. So this weekend will try to get this up and running.
final.jpg


But I have options...

If don't like can save for the 22's in future. then switch these to rear.



I think I'll keep hold of the second hand pair of 3010is for now...
1. Could replace the minx 12 front highs if don't like sound
2. Could put them on the back room roof divider ie... where Bose is now - they would look fine there as its not a focal point, so rear high's (I think that's a thing?!)
broom.jpg

Well the wire is there, just not sure it will add any value. Can sell on if needs be :)

Just to think I only started asking for advice about the X's for surround.. and ended up going Atmos lol!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Well they look tiny & cute and hopefully they add enough for the experience. Just remember to mount the surrounds bit lower than those X marks. Assign the minxes as front heights.

I could make a strong case for you going with 75" tv but let´s leave that for now.. 😁

Keep us posted when you have all setup and hopefully lot of movies ready to be watched on weekend with bags of popcorn & cola! 🍿😎
 

decson74

Active Member
Well they look tiny & cute and hopefully they add enough for the experience. Just remember to mount the surrounds bit lower than those X marks. Assign the minxes as front heights.

I could make a strong case for you going with 75" tv but let´s leave that for now.. 😁

Keep us posted when you have all setup and hopefully lot of movies ready to be watched on weekend with bags of popcorn & cola! 🍿😎
Ha ha I know the space from sofa to tv is 9,5 ft, so yes 75" would work... but the jump from 55 to 65 will be big enough and I would have to get rid of a unit and use stands. couldn't fit speakers each side easily. Maybe 1 year!

I think the shift to a decent AV with 5.1.2 (speakers below x lol) will make a huge difference. Then can enjoy the 65" upgrade in June when the new Philips are launched.

I live in an apartment block and a neighbour opposite is handyman by trade, he has offered to do Friday early eve. Gives me Friday day time to rip out old system and cable tie all the wires etc. I have also got new HDMI leads, a network switch so not to rely on wifi etc to put in place. This project went from simple to huge!!!

And thank you!
But I am hoping it will be worth it. Saturday night Disney Plus and apple movies for a few Atmos films, even with the smaller tv :)

If you think of anyway I could use the additional 3010i's let me know ha ha!
 

decson74

Active Member
Well they look tiny & cute and hopefully they add enough for the experience. Just remember to mount the surrounds bit lower than those X marks. Assign the minxes as front heights.

I could make a strong case for you going with 75" tv but let´s leave that for now.. 😁

Keep us posted when you have all setup and hopefully lot of movies ready to be watched on weekend with bags of popcorn & cola! 🍿😎
Hey.

Just wanted to reach out. Apart from wire tidy up and new tv in a few months (and redecorating in between lol) I’ve done it.
Spent yesterday ripping out old stuff and Bose. Got speakers up last night.
5.1 q acoustics 3010i
2 sets of minx 12 🙈😂
And got a deal on a 2nd sub.
So in end I think it’s 5.2.4 😂

and wow!! It sounds amazing!!

Had a few phase issues setting up. But got there I think in end.

Worth every penny! And glad for the 3700 for extra channels.

Watching baby driver..

Thank you for your support.
Went with the better speaker wire on the 5.1 and as only got it today used the feee stuff for heights as put them up yesterday.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Can you post a picture of your new setup please? 🙂
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member

decson74

Active Member
Very nice mate 👌👍🏼
Cheers. Then surrounds at 3010i and a couple of extra minx 12 as rear highs.
Loving it. Though keep going through films to hear sound tracks and action scenes 😂.
Very glad apple is supposedly looking at hifi sound music - I’m ready for it.
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Cheers. Then surrounds at 3010i and a couple of extra minx 12 as rear highs.
Loving it. Though keep going through films to hear sound tracks and action scenes 😂.
Very glad apple is supposedly looking at hifi sound music - I’m ready for it.
Glad you're enjoying your new gear! 👍🏼🙂

On a side note, I can highly recommend this stuff to hide any speaker wires. It's called "D Line Trunking"


The micro stuff is good for speaker cable. For thicker cables (HDMI, coax, ethernet etc), get the 30x15mm stuff.
 

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