New Amp or New DAC?

[pavlf]

Hello, having always found good advice here I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

I've been running Monitor Audio RS8s with a Harman Kardon HK3490 for ten years now. All good. All of my music is digital, flac mostly, often high resolution (24/96 and upwards) which I pass through from my PC direct to the HK's DAC. TV at the moment goes through coaxial.

A couple of weeks ago I had the good fortune to get hold of some MA Silver 300s. Great speakers, but of course now I've gone back down the rabbit hole - could they sound better. They sound great anyway, but you know how it goes.

So firstly I've been wondering if I should simply upgrade with a new DAC - for e.g the Topping D50. What I'm wondering though is will there be that much difference? I assume so, given that ten years have gone by and DACs are relatively new technology. Can anyone enlighten me?

Secondly, is it a case of power is power, or will a different amp make a big difference? The HK is a powerful amp but is it worth looking to improve upon it? I know this is all quite subjective, but it's good to hear what other people think. Looking about I've seen the Yamaha a-s801 which looks pretty good. Also the Cambridge Audio cxa80 is going quite cheap at the moment - both have DACs, though whilst the Yamaha's is the better DAC and has more power, the CA has more digital inputs (most TVs are optical outs over co-ax these days aren't they?).

£500 is the absolute maximum. I'd be happy to hear that a new dac or a new amp probably wouldn't make much difference.

 

[MaryWhitehouse]

Aren't both of those way over your limit?

 

[pavlf]

No, I can see a Topping D50 for £130, a cxa for £390 and a Yamaha for £500

 

[MaryWhitehouse]

No, I can see a Topping D50 for £130, a cxa for £390 and a Yamaha for £500

Please do share

 

[pavlf]

There's a Yamaha on here for £450 but the seller isn't responding

 

[pavlf]

You'll buy them now!!!

 

[MaryWhitehouse]

Ah ok thought was new. For what it's worth I'd sell the HK and buy the Yamaha for a great increase in SQ.

 

[pavlf]

Thanks! Yes, this is what I'm thinking.

 

[MaryWhitehouse]

Both amps will be good. Yamaha would be my preference but if you can’t listen to either and there are no outstanding technical features one has over the other for you then go with your gut.

 

[dannnielll]

The HK is well good enough 120w real power per channel is hugel with the silvers should be very nice.

 

[pavlf]

Thanks, yes, I know that they are powerful so I'm not worried about driving the speakers. I just wondered if there would be any advantage in getting a DAC more recent than the one that's already in the HK.

 

[MaryWhitehouse]

The HK is well good enough 120w real power per channel is hugel with the silvers should be very nice.

True but a half decent stereo amp will always wipe the floor with it.

 

[pavlf]

And this is the other argument - the few people who know anything about anything that I've mentioned the HK to have screwed up their noses! Power isn't just power seemingly.

 

[MaryWhitehouse]

Power is nothing without control

 

[pavlf]

Well that went well. An a s8001 is on its way to my house. A Harman Kardon HK3490 will be appearing on ebay sometime in the near future. Will report back.

 

[dannnielll]

True but a half decent stereo amp will always wipe the floor with it.

I don't agree.... There needs to be a reason based on measurements and the measurements are very good for that class of HK amplifier... The bandwidth is superb.

 

[pavlf]

Well, I can report back with my subjective take on what things sound like - midweek sometime. If this Yamaha sounds sh*te I'm invoicing MaryWhitehous

 

[dannnielll]

Well that went well. An a s8001 is on its way to my house. A Harman Kardon HK3490 will be appearing on ebay sometime in the near future. Will report back.

I would be very interested in you doing that comparison... But it needs to be fair. If you are using a dac it needs to be the same one.

 

[pavlf]

The HK has its own DAC, as does the Yamaha. I'd use the DACs in each. I'm happy to report back with how it appears to me.

 

[MaryWhitehouse]

I would be very interested in you doing that comparison... But it needs to be fair. If you are using a dac it needs to be the same one.

With curtains in front of them and someone else switching between
You’ll enjoy the new one. Having recently moved from a very good AVR to a stereo system it’s very obviously better.

 

[pavlf]

'With curtains in front of them and someone else switching between' - yes that's exactly what's going to happen! Probably. Maybe

 

[dannnielll]

The HK has its own DAC, as does the Yamaha. I'd use the DACs in each. I'm happy to report back with how it appears to me.

Sorry.. but no. That is comparing two SYSTEMS.. My contention is that the power amplifier in the HK equals that of the Yamaha. Comparing DACs is a different excercise.. which can only be done using the pre outs The HK was a 500 quid machine ,a 12 years ago, so it will have a beefier power supply. HK would be almost like the Snowcat in comparison to a jetski..they went for huge high performance classical class AB amplifiers,of low efficiency ,but major power reserves.

 

[pavlf]

Ah OK, but I'm going to be using a 'system'. So in this instance your advice would have been to invest in a separate DAC as the HK amp is more than good enough? Surely the DAC in the HK has been improved upon over the last ten years.

 

[dannnielll]

Yes the DAC in the Yamaha is of later vintage and should be better. I do expect that there will be a slight difference in sound, but do not expect anything major.. and of course you lose the FM radio. I have both a HK and a Yamaha ..lower spec receiver, both of which I am very pleased with...they obviously are in different rooms with different speakers.
HK ...
Audio SectionStereo Mode:Continuous Average Power (FTC):120 Watts per channel,20Hz – 20kHz,@ <0.07% THD,both channels driven into 8 ohms150 Watts per channel,20Hz – 20kHz @ <0.2% THD,both channels driven into 4 ohmsInput Sensitivity/ImpedanceLinear (High-Level):200mV/47k ohmsSignal-to-Noise Ratio (IHF-A):95dBFrequency Response @ 1W (+0dB,–3dB):10Hz –110kHzHigh Instantaneous Current Capability (HCC):±45 AmpsTransient Intermodulation Distortion (TIM):UnmeasurableRise Time:16 µsecSlew Rate:40V/µsec

Specifications
	A-S801
Minimum RMS Output Power (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz)	100 W + 100 W (0.019% THD)
Maximum Power (4 ohms, 1kHz, 0.7% THD, for Europe)	160 W + 160 W
High Dynamic Power/Channel (8/6/4/2 ohms)	140/170/220/290 W
Damping Factor	240
Frequency Response	10 Hz-100 kHz +/-1.0 dB
Total Harmonic Distortion (CD to Sp Out, 20 Hz-20 kHz)	0.019% (50 W/8 ohms)

 

[pavlf]

Thanks, yes I know that the HK is very powerful - more so than the Yamaha. We end up in the 'is power just power' debate here, a debate I know very little about other than that it exists. I'll see how things sound later this week I expect. Losing the tuner is no loss as I never use it. I have a digital receiver going into the amp.