New Amp for use with TV and CD seperate

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by Arnoldb, Jul 18, 2018.


    1. Arnoldb

      Arnoldb
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      Hello,

      Would really appreciate any advice here.
      I am looking to buy an Amp and seperate CD player. The amp will be used mostly for TV sound but obviously for CDs whenever I am in the mood.

      I have been looking at the Marantz HD AMP 1 Integrated along with its CD player HD-CD 1.

      Alternatively i was considering the Denon DRA 100 with the DCD 100.

      The Marantz is on the market longer, original list price was about £899 but i've seen its price reduced so that I can get it for slightly cheaper than the Denon whose price is about £799.
      The prices are essentially comparable for both the amps and CD players, so its not going to sway me.

      Obviously the DRA is newer and offers a lot more functionality - but for my main needs of TV and CD would it be comparable / better or worse than the Marantz ?
      If it was similar, i would probably go for it to get the extra functionality of streaming etc.

      Any comments welcome, my speakers are Dali Zensor 1.

      Thanks


      EDIT : My TV only has digital out
       
    2. Ugg10

      Ugg10
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      Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
    3. gibbsy

      gibbsy
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      You would be better off as Ugg10 has said with a Marantz PM6006 and CD6006. The HD amp 1 is basically a DAC and headphone amp, 35 watts into 8 ohm. It will drive high sensitivity speakers but will not be as efficient as the PM6006, 45 watts into 8 ohm, which in itself has a very good headphone stage, as indeed does the CD6006. The CD6006 is a very good CD player and I would be happy to pair it to any good amp.

      There are some PM8005s available and that is a very good amp with 70 watts into 8 ohms and would certainly make for a far better purchase than the Amp 1.
      Marantz PM8005 Integrated Stereo Amplifier
       
    4. dollag

      dollag
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      I have seen the 8005 for as little as £500 and is a very very good amplifier. Shop around and look for ex demo models.

      Regarding the CD player, the matching Marantz is an obvious choice.

      however just as an alternative, you could at a separate pre/power combo

      Yamaha WXC-50

      Emotiva Black BasX A-300 2 Channel Power Amplifier - AV Power Amplifiers - AudioVisual Online - UK Home Cinema and Hifi Specialists

      The Yamaha pre has a great dac and all you would need is any old cd player with coax output as all the decoding is done in the yamaha. It's also future proof with all it's streaming capabilites

      The emotiva is a bit of a powerhouse and some would argue overkill but @ 6ohms and low sensitivity, They will appreciate the extra power and really sing

      The Marantz HD will not be good for such a demanding speaker. @Ugg10 suggested, try and get down a local shop and have a listen.
       
    5. Arnoldb

      Arnoldb
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      Thanks for the replies.

      My cabinet space is only 400mm wide, that is why I choose the narrower units.

      Unfortunately standard width gear isn't a runner.

      With that in mind, is there any reason why I should chose one over the other of my selections, or an alternative narrow width unit.?
      Non standard width integrated amps with DAC are not that common so choice is relatively limited.

      I did look at the yamaha wxa 50 as an amp, would that be similar to wxc 50 and would they be comparable in general to the denon or marantz hd amp 1?
       
    6. dollag

      dollag
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      I do not think the Yammy or the Marantz will suffice, well they will but your probably better off looking at the rega brio r as a slim amplifier. It has a decent psu to supply current to the Dali's

      The 'Cyrus one' may be another i'd audition.
       
    7. Arnoldb

      Arnoldb
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      Thanks, would you be able to elaborate why the marantz or yammy may not suffice?
      I don't think the models you suggest have digital inputs?
       
    8. dollag

      dollag
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      It's mainly due to your speakers. They are not the most efficient. The marantz is 35w @8ohms

      As far as the speakers, look at the Sensitivity Rating. Keep in mind for common Consumer Speakers, it is likely to be in the 85db to 95db range with perhaps 87db to 90db being common. Each 3db increase represents a Doubling of the Power. Sensitivity is how much you get out of a speaker for a fixed standard amount of input (1w or 2.83v). Your Dali's are 6ohm rated with a sensitivity of 86db, meaning they need sufficient wattage and current to get them singing.

      I am not saying the amplifier will not work, heck i am sure it would pretty decent; however, for the money there are better amplifier out there for your speakers. If you had a pair of say monitor audio silver 100's, they have a nominal impedence of 8 ohms instead of 6 fairly sensitive at 89db. this would be a lot less taxing on the amplifier.
       
    9. ShanePJ

      ShanePJ
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      If you require a digital input together with a system which has to be narrow, why not look at something similar to the Denon CEOL RCD-N9 we have one on a warehouse offer. It's a reasonable amp, a built-in CD player plus some modern features for streaming music. It's not perfect and will not beat some more expensive solutions, but has enough ability to put a smile on your face when space is tight :)
       
    10. gibbsy

      gibbsy
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      For slimline amps the Rega Brio or some Cyrus amps are the best options. With the Brio you would need to introduce a separate DAC as like all Regas it is analogue only. For it's size the Brio punches well above it's weight, it would be certainly worth you auditioning the Brio.

      Getting an audition of the Marantz headphone amp may prove a little difficult. However it does have an excellent DAC built in, the same one as in my SA8005, but it would struggle to drive your speakers.
       
    11. Arnoldb

      Arnoldb
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      Thanks for the replies.

      There seems to be concern over the speakers - I could look at changing them but the Dali specs say 25-100 w recommended amp power, so i wasn't too concerned when I saw that, and I don't need very loud sound.
      I would be open to other suggestions on speakers though, but if the consensus is the Dali's should be ok, I will stick with them for now.

      I don't want to go with seperate DAC for space reasons mainly, although I imagine cost might go up too.

      So, going back to original choice - or sticking to compact integrated amps with DAC, is there a standout I need to know about or would one be better than the other ?
       
    12. dollag

      dollag
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      another alternative, getting a pair of actives. and using the yamaha preamplifier

      Adam A5X Active Studio Monitor, Single at Gear4music.com

      Like I said, the marantz/dali combo will work and would likely sound good. Is it the best? well no it's not but does not mean it's bad? of course not.
       
    13. muljao

      muljao
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      The marantz hd1 gets negative comments here. I'm fairly sure these comments are from non users. I've read quite a bit about it and though modest on paper apparently the 35watts power is backed up by a highly able system that is constant.

      Users seem to love this amp.
       
    14. dollag

      dollag
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      I done a bit of digging too and it uses the hypex class D modules which are very good indeed. It's a shame Marantz have not been transparent with the internals of the amplifier. Even on their website, they are giving 4ohm figures.

      Regardless of this though from experience, pairing a low sensitive speaker with small power has always ended in disappointment, regardless how good the amplifier is.

      I remeber when I paired LS50's with my marantz mcr611, which used a similar amp section and i was so disappointed.

      I think the right pairing is fairly important for an amplifier like the Marantz
       
    15. muljao

      muljao
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      I'm sure you are correct regarding the kefs, but they are known to require higher powered amps to run them. Dali's on the other handcshhand be a walk in the park for the marantz
       
    16. dollag

      dollag
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      I thought the same however their specs are very similar on paper hence the slight concern for the modestly powered marantz.
       
    17. muljao

      muljao
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      I think some specs are similar, the Dali's are 86.5 dB which isn't to bad also recommended 25 plus watts, which the marantz covers easily. If I remember correctly I think the kefs recommended 70 watts or more but that's only off the top of my head, could be completely wrong
       
    18. dollag

      dollag
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      AMPLIFIER REQUIREMENTS 25 - 100 W

      Kef LS50's requirments from their site; however their ohms swing quite a lot and is a contributing factor as to why they need the power.

      The Dali 1's are fairly consistent and a minimum of 5 ohms so the recommended power is probably a lot more realistic.
       
    19. muljao

      muljao
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      Ya, it was a (wrong) guess, I think many user reviews suggest more power alright for them ones.
       
    20. gibbsy

      gibbsy
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      I'm not knocking the Marantz, far from it. The DAC is first class, the same as in my SA8005 which I love. The headphone section is more powerful than that fitted to the 8005 which is limited to 30mV. This new amp has been designed to drive demanding 600 ohm headphones with ease and Marantz did pitch it as a high grade headphone amp that was a direct competitor to the Oppo HA1.

      With what I now know about having limited space then as a pure amp and depending on the sensitivity of speakers fitted it has to be a contender especially if headphone listening on quality 'phones is a big consideration. One of the reasons I bought the Oppo PM1s was for their low ohm loading and high sensitivity to use with the 8005 and I've not been disappointed, they work brilliantly together. The HD Amp1 will be exceptional with good 'phones right from 32ohm to 600ohm with it's three gain controls. It will make a fair one box solution.

      Would I choose the Marantz over the Rega Brio, especially if I have the room for an external DAC, then no, not having experienced the quality of Rega's sound and control. I don't think you'll find a better amp in a small chassis at the price point than the Brio.

      If it has to be a one box solution then the Amp1 makes sense.
       
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    21. Arnoldb

      Arnoldb
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      Thanks for the replies.

      I won't be using headphones at all so can't include that as a plus.

      Due to the lack of mention of the Denon I take it the marantz is the better option of the two?
       
    22. gibbsy

      gibbsy
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      The Denon player is no cheap option that's for sure. Smart looking piece of kit. The DRA100 is a receiver so a lot more crammed into the chassis with the same amount of power as the Marantz. I dare say they share many of same components. What is telling, looking at the full specifications, is that the Denon is a kilogram lighter in exactly the same size body. I like heavy!

      Same goes for the CD players, again roughly the same size but the Marantz is heavier by over a kilogram. It is also an SACD player. As for cost you can get the Marantz pairing for roughly £100 cheaper than the Denon. I prefer the look of the Denon and both these will serve your purpose. Knowing fairly well both Denon and Marantz sound signatures I would pick the Marantz HD-CD1 and Amp1 based on build quality and how they would sound to my ears.

      If you don't want the radio functions of these units you could pair either of the CD players with a third party amp if you wanted.
       
    23. Ugg10

      Ugg10
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    24. Paul7777x

      Paul7777x
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      I’ll second the Leema. Plenty of power and headroom. It’ll be happy driving just about anything.

      Certainly your Dalis won’t faze it it even a tiny bit.

      Then one of these using the Leema dac and off you go. Getting the very best out of your cds and tv and speakers.


      TEAC PD-H600 CD compact Disc Player + A UK Mains Lead 4907034214334 | eBay

      One of these for the tv

      https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasi...&qid=1532036079&sr=8-4&keywords=Optical+cable

      One of these for the CD player.

      Both into this fine previous suggestion.


      Leema Acoustics Elements Integrated Amplifier . Built In 24Bit 192khz Usb Dac | eBay
       
    25. Paul7777x

      Paul7777x
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    26. Paul7777x

      Paul7777x
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    27. Arnoldb

      Arnoldb
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      That looks nice I had spotted it before but forgot about it, probably becasue they stopped producing it.
      Power wise it doesnt seem much different though - or have i missed something ?
       
    28. dollag

      dollag
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      That Leema is lovely
       
    29. Paul7777x

      Paul7777x
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      It’s a class AB amp and draws plenty of power from the wall when necessary.

      Cambridge have a great reputation for providing plenty of current when necessary, that is when the music signal and speaker require a more than usual amount.

      It was also a 600 quid item when new and has a fine dac too.

      I’d say, given the cost of your speakers, it’s actually the most useful buy from the ones suggested here.

      Though, if you can afford it, the Leema is a whole different league up. The Leema will also take any upgrade in speakers you might consider in the future entirely in its stride.

      But for a budget buy I’d go straight for the Minx.
       
    30. Paul7777x

      Paul7777x
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      Ps, simply on power supply alone I wouldn’t consider either the Marantz or Denon especially when the Leema is about.
       

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