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New amp disapointment - please help

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Techno, May 1, 2004.

  1. Techno

    Techno
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    Setup my new Fuji plasma, Marantz SR5400 and Gallos micros today.

    Delighted with Picture but disapointed with sound (I know Ian;) )

    I'm sure this is partly down to me.......

    DVD sound is fine although it now highlights the need for a new sub, the Eltax I have doesn't do the speakers or amp justice so it will need changing, but that's another story).

    My biggest disapointment is with normal TV via SKY+. The Marantz won't output anything to the sub unless it's a Sky DD movie, without the sub there just isn't any bass.

    Previously I was using a TV with built in DD amp, by connecting a lead from L or R analogue sound output to the sub it worked fine. Even where it was a standard Prologic broadcast. Having said that though, it was only turned on for DVDs because the bass for normal TV was good.

    The Marantz isn't sending anything to the sub because it's not getting a 5.1 or DTS signal and connecting a lead to one of the analogue audio outs does nothing either.

    Is this the case with all amps?

    I'm probably rambling a bit here but I'm beginning to wish I'd stuck with the TV and saved £4k.

    :lease: help

    Thanks
     
  2. phillfyspoon

    phillfyspoon
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    I dont know what skys sound output is like because im on ntl which is just the same on my denon 2802 the sound is just flat and and has no lowend at all i blame the ntl box not the amp but with cd's dvd's the bass is booming from the rel q150e sub.
     
  3. lynx

    lynx
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    Muck around with the settings on your amp.On my S0ny for instance, selecting 2 channel or source direct shuts off the signal to the sub and may be the sort of thing you are experiencing.
     
  4. marklondon80

    marklondon80
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    Im not up to speed with the sub you have but my arcam avr100 amp was much the same.
    It had different speaker settings and depending on which one you selected it would reroute the bass to the sub or to the front stereo pair. I could use the sub in stereo or 5.1 but not both.
    One of the chaps here suggested that if my sub could accept high level inputs (as in the signal going from amp to main speakers) then I should connect the sub to the front L & R outputs in parrallel and set the amp to send all low freq to the stereo fronts. ( on my amp I had to set the front L & R to large, consult you manual to see if it is the same)
    This ment that the amp acted as if no sub were present and routed all the bass to the front L & R which was picked up by the sub and amplified as normal in stereo, proligic and 5.1.

    It's compilcated but it means that you will have the sub working in all sound formats.

    Hope that helps.:lesson:
     
  5. rozzar

    rozzar
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    on the marantz amps you have to select home cinema eq mode to activate the sub output iirc
     
  6. Techno

    Techno
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    I've just checked and it's on that setting, thanks for reply Rozzar.
     
  7. Techno

    Techno
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    Mark, thanks for this info.

    I've given it a go but no joy I'm affraid. The sub lgihts up green suggesting it's receiving but nothing comes from it.
     
  8. Techno

    Techno
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    Thanks Lynx, after reading this I've gone through and tried all the settings I can.
     
  9. Techno

    Techno
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    I had NTL before SKY and don't really notice any difference between the two - other than SKY+ DD movies:clap:

    This is what is getting me.

    When I was using the sound built in to the TV, the prologic effects and DD effects were excellent.

    The Marantz sounds great with DVDs or SKY+ Dolby Digital broadcasts (notwithstanding the need to upgrade the sub) but it just doesn't seem to handle Prologic properly, which is a nightmare because that's 80% of what we watch.

    With normal progrmas, most of the sound coming from the rear speakers is squelchy.

    For example, a scene in the pub in Coronation Street (sad I know) on the TV would prduce clear dialogue, FL and FR stereo effects and you would clearly hear background noise, chattering etc from the rear speakers, overall great effect. Now, you get stereo and centre but low pitch hardly audible squelches from the rear.

    Can anybody tell me if their amp/receivers does the Sky sound properly, I'm going to have to swap this 'cos it's driving me nuts.

    Cheers
     
  10. Techno

    Techno
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    Before I read the latest Home Cinema review that placed the Marantz top of the budget receivers, I was going to buy the Yamaha 640, looking at the online manual for it it says;



    Sounds like I need to swap the Marantz for one of these then.

    Does anybody have the Yam and can confirm please?
     
  11. cribeiro

    cribeiro
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    I don't think so. For me, it sounds like a set up problem. If you want to get sound from the sub with a stereo signal (or with any signal without LFE output), you will need to redirect the output, using the internal crossovers of the amp, so everything lower than the crossover will go to the sub (or will be shared between sub and mains, if you have full range ones and wish so). It looks like your tv was doing that before without any additional set up. With this stuff, life becomes more complicated :) Good luck!
     
  12. rscott4563

    rscott4563
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    What have you got your crossover set at 60/80/100/120Hz etc..??
     
  13. Techno

    Techno
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    I've tried them all, nothing to sub at any setting.
     
  14. Philly112

    Philly112
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    Does it change when you put your speakers to 'small', or has this aleady been tried?
     
  15. PC Nut

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    Suggestion: not knowing the sky kit, can you take a non digital feed like an RCA left & right audio to your amp and set your reciever to use this for normal viewing, this should contain the whole frequency range and seperate the base to the lfe channel.
     
  16. Techno

    Techno
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    Thanks Phily - tried that, no joy.
     
  17. Techno

    Techno
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    Tried that via the sound output from the JS Convertor - just tried it direct after reading this but no joy.

    FDaft thing is that Mission Impossible is currently playing on Sky movies and becauseits in DD and the woofer is working it sounds fantastic - such a shame but the speakers go on the classified tomorrow and the Marantz is going back to QED. Can't be :censored: with :censored: about.

    Good thing is that the Fuji is STUNNING so not too unhappy anymore:thumbsup:

    Thanks to everyone who replied here - really appreciate your help.
     
  18. cribeiro

    cribeiro
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    No, don't do it! I really think it is a matter of the settings, and if you are happy with the sound, it would be a pity!
    If I were you, I'd ask in the shop, maybe they can help you... But from what you say, that even with the normal stereo input you don't get any bass, I know what it is: you have selected an option that puts only the LFE into the sub, and everything else to the mains. Must be that, since you get sound from the sub with DD movies. It would be very weird that your amp doesn't have that option (and it is independent of the crossover setting, you may set the crossover, but if you don't activate the option, you don't get anything. There is something similar in my yamaha, if setting some speakers to small and so on). I am pretty sure it does, and you have not yet used it. Try, and you'll be happy.
    Good luck, again.
     
  19. Techno

    Techno
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    Cribeiro - you've helped convinced me to stick with it but not with this receiver.

    I've tried evrything and I am now getting some bass but it's hit and miss. As I've said, the real problem seems to be the lack of correct prologic decoding. Perhaps the Gallo Micro isn't the best thing for the centre either.

    Marantz's been returned and I've just come back from Richer Sounds with it's replacement. Basically they let you try it for 14 days and return if no good.

    Went in to get the Yam 640 but came out with a Teac AG10, salesman assured me would do what I wanted - and it was cheaper!!! Anyway, I'll go through their whole range until I get what I'm after. Before I know it I'll have spend a grand on a 'proper' one:D

    Thanks

    Techno
     
  20. Kazman

    Kazman
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    I think you went and made a little boo boo, sorry I haven't replied sooner, but I've been really busy.

    The Marantz way of handling the LFE signal with Pro Logic 2 is slightly different.

    There are two settings you need to have set, speakers to small and in preferences, you need to select BOTH when given the bass option, NOT BASSMIX. "Both" will send the LF signals to the sub. The Eltax sub is also not too hot in picking up the PL signal, I have an Eltax Sub-10 Subwoofer (now replaced with a lovely KEF sub), it is just laying around doing nothing now, but when it was in the system, it would never pick up the LFE signal and turn on until I selected DPL2 Music mode on a bass heavy channel such as MTV Bass. I then switched back to movie mode and things were fine. The Kef has no such trouble picking up the LFE signal.

    If you set your speakers to small, the Marantz will automatically send all signals below 100hz to the sub, but the Eltax Sub didn't pick it up until I jump started it with MTV Bass.

    The Teac you have bought is quite inferior to the Marantz for sound quality, if I were you, I'd try to get the Marantz back.

    The setting and explanation of the "BOTH" setting is in the manual, but isn't very clear in the way it explains it.

    I have the SR7400, the crossover is set to 80, and I have no problems with my front speakers set to Large and enabling "BOTH" in the preferences menu, the KEF sub picks it up and is fine. The SR4300 I had before with the Eltax Sub was a pain, but once I had set the speakers to small and set the bass preference to both, it was also fine for pro-logic.
     
  21. Techno

    Techno
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    Thanks Kazman, Marantz was collected this morning:oops:

    I had tried the various settings with no luck and now I see that was probably down to the sub. Funnily enough when watching something last night that should have engaged the sub I noticed it wasn't so unlugged the sub lead, put it back in and it sparked into booming life.

    No problem though because options seem to be;

    QED don't accept the return because it's been used in which case I get it back and swap the Teac at Richer Sounds for a decent Sub!

    If I do get the money back from QED i can swap the Teac with RS for the Marantz again, buy a new sub with the QED money etc etc.

    Options, oprions.

    The Teac does seem to handle the TV better but last night I noticed that when playing a DVD with volume up a bit, the picture flickered occasionally, I'm wondering whether this is down to receiver being overloaded a bit because the component goes thorugh it:rolleyes:

    Thanks again.
     
  22. CrispyXUK

    CrispyXUK
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    Have you tried reseting the amp? this worked for me (3802) when I had no bass in PL/2
     
  23. Kazman

    Kazman
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    Also, don't forget that the sub will need a continuous signal to get activated, therefore, if you are watching something dialogue heavy, there is no need for the Marantz to route to the Sub, which is why watching bass heavy music channels helped kick start the Eltax.
     
  24. Kaleb500

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    Kaz i have also found that my sub, a monitor audio asw100, seems to need a kick to get it going. Once its on however its ok :) I attributed this to the subs standby mode, but who knows.
     
  25. Techno

    Techno
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    QED have accepted the return and refund is on it's way > they are a great company to deal with.

    I'm much happier with the sound from the Teac than the Marantz for daily TV but the picture quality seems to have taken a slight downturn. I route DVD and Sky in via component and then one component out from amp to panel.

    I'm going to swap the Teac for the 640 Yamaha at RS to give that a try and I'm buying the highly rated and recomended Mordaunt Short MS309 Avant.

    Hopefully that will do the trick. If not :suicide:

    Thanks again for all the replies chaps.
     
  26. aliflack

    aliflack
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    just took delivery of the MS309 sub - still running it in but boy does it do the job soo much better than my old Yammy...

    Looks stunning and really well put together...
     

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