New 32" Philips LCD-TV with PP2HD & ClearLCD

[DangerMouse!]

New Phillips LCD "32PF9630A" out Q4 2005

See below for more details:

http://ployer.com/archives/2005/01/philips_lcdtv_w.php

http://www.bluefi.co.uk/news/philips_lcdtv_with_clearlcd.html

 

[MattDJ]

Sounds like the one i need to get... tho Q4?

 

[jimsan]

Sounds like the one i need to get... tho Q4?

Q4 = Oct/Nov/Dec, Matt.

Jimmy

 

[zamwessell]

Does anyone know what other sizes there will be?

Looks like they go up to 60".

 

[jimsan]

New Phillips LCD "32PF9630A" out Q4 2005

See below for more details:

http://ployer.com/archives/2005/01/philips_lcdtv_w.php

http://www.bluefi.co.uk/news/philips_lcdtv_with_clearlcd.html

This looks like Philips next generation panel, to supercede the 9986/76/56 panel.

'ClearLCD' hints that they have now got a panel that has a wider viewing angle that doesn't start going blue at extreme viewing angles. There is no mention of Pixel Response times but they do hint that it may be improved.

Interesting that they are introducing it in such an ordinary looking chassis. This looks a bit like the equivalent to the current 9976, which might imply an upmarket one with a next generation 'Ambilight II'. Adjustable backlight at last! It would seem that the backlight is getting just as much attention as the panel itself. I do like the sound of the LED backlight that Sony are developing....

Two HDMI sockets are great, but this TV is for the American market, so I suspect that some Philips marketing twit will think it better to give us scarts instead. The US ones have no scarts. Ideally we need:

1 DVI. 2 HDMI. 2 RGB Scarts. 1 Component. 1 S-Video. Plus assorted Phono ins and outs. At least. You listening Philips?

As this is for the Yanks there is also a fair chance that it won't reach us here until possibly early 2006, or even later, or not at all......

We'll keep watching...well done DangerMouse for the find.

Jimmy

 

[Dazzle]

If Philips sort their connectivity issues out, then this could be another gem of an LCD TV. Wonder if it'll win awards like the '9986 has??

 

[rundmc51]

the set has at least 1 hdmi 1 dvi it also has card reader and wifi pc connectivity not sure how many rgb scarts or other sockets

 

[LcdGuru]

> A high-output fluorescent lamp operated in scanning mode cancels
> out the Sample and Hold effect...and creates the extreme motion
> sharpness.

Basically they intend to flash the backlight at field rate to make motion sharper. By 'scanning' I guess they mean to flash tubes 1-8 in sequence from top to bottom to match the scanning row-based refresh of the LCD.

This will make the refresh more 'CRT like' and should improve motion sharpness - but the issues are increased flicker (like a CRT) and reduced backlight luminance (due to reduced duty cycle).

Perhaps they will allow the user to select between sharp motion mode (flashing backlight) and flicker-free mode (backlight always on). That way, if sharp motion mode is dimmer - you could select it when viewing in a darkened room.

It would be cool to see a true 100Hz / 120Hz LCD with flashed backlight using Philips Natural Motion to create the intermediate frames. Then we might finally see an LCD that can equal or surpass the dynamic picture quality of a CRT.

 

[jimsan]

I don't really have a clue what you're talking about Mr.Guru.....'scanning row-based refresh'... indeed......but your last sentence has left me in some doubt about your title..

I sincerely hope that Philips have no intention of making their displays more CRT like! I'm sure that you've seen a 9986 on full tilt displaying a good quality DVD source. It is astonishing! I have never seen a CRT come close to this kind of quality.

If this new Philips technology succeeds in blackening the blacks and smoothing the motion then, in my opinion, this will take LCD's into an entirely different league to anything else. Never mind 'as good as CRT', more like 'do you remember CRT's?'

Don't like the idea of flickering screens though.....

Jimmy

 

[LcdGuru]

LCDs are inferior to CRTs when displaying fast motion. This is for two reasons:

1) slow response of LC pixels
2) The so-called "sample and hold effect"

Much work has been done to improve 1) eg. 8ms response LC and Sharp's 'Quick shoot' mode. However, up until now 2) has not been addressed.

Hopefully Philips scanning backlight will fix this. The result should be super sharp smooth motion - just like a CRT.

 

[MokerJoker]

http://www.lighting.philips.com/gl_en/content_homepage/PS4-13PhilipsclearLCD_5.pdf. I don't understand however why the sample-and-hold effect is characteristic for LCDs. It seems the same applies to plasmas, regular film and any TV. And I agree with jimsan: It might well be that these new techniques introduce other artifacts, such as flickering.

 

[LcdGuru]

> I don't understand however why the sample-and-hold effect
> is characteristic for LCDs.

Each LCD row displays the image continuously until it is updated with the picture data for the next field. So the image is "sampled & held". Sounds like a good thing right?

The problem occurs with fast panning shots - when you try to track an object moving across the screen with your eye. eg. during a footy match or horse racing.

Suppose an object moves across the screen at 10 pixels per frame. Your eye is trying to track the object smoothly across the screen. But the LCD 'hold' period creates a 10 pixel blur on your retina between each frame image.

The solution is to reduce the 'hold' time. This will reduce the size of the blur. Eg. a 1/10 duty cycle backlight will reduce the blur from 10 pixels to just 1 pixel.

> It seems the same applies to plasmas,

Yes. It also affects plasma's - but the motion effect is even worse on plasma because the 'hold' period is made up of lots of small light pulses. As a result moving objects breakup into lots of little dots.

Regular 50/60Hz CRTs do not suffer from motion blur because the phosphor in each pixel only glows for about 1ms after being hit by the scanning electron beam. So there is no 'hold' period so you don't see any blurring when tracking moving objects with your eye.

So ironically "flicker" = "sharp motion"

However, if you can upconvert to true 100Hz then the flicker becomes invisible and you just get sharp motion.

 

[RockySpieler]

The Phillips 32PF9630A is now available in the USA, with new styling compared to 9830:-

http://www1.shopping.com/xPF-32PF9630A

Already on special!!!

http://www.electronics-depot.com/philips_32PF9630A.html

Not many posts on AVSFORUM.COM unfortunately:-

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=569513&highlight=32PF9630A

Owner's Manual Link:-

http://www.electronics-depot.com/Brochures/philips_32pf9630a_37.pdf

Has 2 HDMI but no DVI or VGA, probably space need for CableCard and ASTC tuner for US market.

Picture has Germany 2006 WorldCup logo (TV to be broadcast HD worldwide........but maybe not in UK where ITV/BBC have rights ).

 

[chambeaj]

You'll find those links are out of date/incorrect.

Philips US website:
http://www.store.philips.com/b2c_re...00000000828BD472&scenario=catalog&shop=DIRECT

The 32PF9630A does not feature ClearLCD.
(ps. I'd hardly call a dynamic contrast ratio of 2400:1 an improvement!!)

A well informed poster on these forums suggests we are probably looking at Sept.-Oct. 2006 (Philips had technical problems to solve).

Also if you look at the current state of affairs, they can't even keep up with production of the 9830.

Also note - that US set only has 2 speakers as well - and they do not appear to be NXT (The Philips NXT are very good imho).

 

[RockySpieler]

Thx

I was a little worried, that probably explains why the user feedback that I did find on AVSFORUM.COM was indifferent to the TV, I was hoping to read that they were blown away by the ClearLCD technology.

It's amazing that so many US website are stating that this TV has ClearLCD...............even across the pond you cannot trust HTML information.

 

[danny968]

I received my 9830 a full 10 weeks after ordering it. This was due to Philips struggling to keep up with demand for their LATEST lcd models.

Philips have been showered with design and technical awards for the 9830 which has only been released in Q4 2005. It makes no business sense for Philips to release any new models to rival the 9830 for at least a year - they're in the business of making money, remember.

Expect to be able to buy Philips next generation of lcd tv's (thats those that replace the 9830) next September at the earliest. Info, pdf's etc usually get realeased 3/4 months before launch, so anything you at the moment is wrong.

 

[dfisher_uk]

So my conclusion of this topic is to go for the 32pf9830 rather than wait till the new "ClearLCD" model comes out Q4 of next year!

 

[computec]

I don't really have a clue what you're talking about Mr.Guru.....'scanning row-based refresh'... indeed......but your last sentence has left me in some doubt about your title..

I sincerely hope that Philips have no intention of making their displays more CRT like! I'm sure that you've seen a 9986 on full tilt displaying a good quality DVD source. It is astonishing! I have never seen a CRT come close to this kind of quality.

If this new Philips technology succeeds in blackening the blacks and smoothing the motion then, in my opinion, this will take LCD's into an entirely different league to anything else. Never mind 'as good as CRT', more like 'do you remember CRT's?'

Don't like the idea of flickering screens though.....

Jimmy

I have an idea about what Guru is talking about, Its like when you use a camera or something to take a picture of the tv and you see the bar scanning through it. I think that is it, anyway of all the lcd tv's i have seen none of them can compare in terms of picture quality to the Philips 32pw9509. this set is unreal and the only reason i moved it into the bedroom is that i wanted to use sky's new hdtv service, but now i dont know if i can even do that because i have the 32pf9986 with firmware 1.3, please could someone advise if it is hdtv ready, Thanks, Mark.