New 1080p projector. Sim2 D80 or Projection Design M25

[camelkingsize]

I had set my mind on the Sim2 D80 given its specs and the strong brand. I have never owned one but was admiring them on the local av shop. This one retails at £6000. Then I read about Projection design M25 model coming with exactly similar spec to D80 but £1000 lower.

does anyone have experience with Projection Design? How is the build quality and picture? It is a new brand to me.


I am throwing from 5.3meters on a 260cm width 16:9 screen.


Camel

 

[RTFM]

The list price on the SIM2 D80 is now £4500.

 

[Avi]

I had set my mind on the Sim2 D80 given its specs and the strong brand. I have never owned one but was admiring them on the local av shop. This one retails at £6000. Then I read about Projection design M25 model coming with exactly similar spec to D80 but £1000 lower.

does anyone have experience with Projection Design? How is the build quality and picture? It is a new brand to me.


I am throwing from 5.3meters on a 260cm width 16:9 screen.


Camel

The PD product I've seen have been small and very well finished with good optics. I haven't seen the M25 in action but I suspect it will throw a brighter image than the D80 and it supports TI brilliant colour. There is also has a choice of two lenses.

I thought the D80 black level performance could be better and I don't know if the M25 will be an improvement in this area. Also I don't know for sure but I seam to recall the PD using a modulating lamp but I have a bad memory and way be wrong.

AVI

 

[camelkingsize]

The list price on the SIM2 D80 is now £4500.

that makes it an even harder decision now..

PD M25 is not out yet. I am not sure if its worth the wait.

 

[RTFM]

One thing well worth bearing in mind when choosing a projector is the backup and service you get from your dealer/distributor/manufacturer.

With SIM2 UK the after sales care given to dealers and end users has been outstanding in my experience.

 

[Drem]

Very interesting. I'm also choosing between these two projectors. I also have the Samsung A800B on my list, but details on price and final specifications are still not in, and price is still in the air on the M25 (in Sweden).

 

[coldmachine]

For the money the D80 is a steal. I owned 2 until a few months ago and they are probably the best bang for buck machines I've owned. They produce a stellar image and as with all Sim2's have better VP than anything else out there, all developed in house. Custom aspect ratios per memory per input. Deadly accurate white point adjustment (x and y can be dialed perfect with a Duv=0) for a perfect D65(using a really cool colored CIE diagram) etc etc. It is virtually impossible for even a high end outbouard VP to improve image on these machines. Many of the algorithms (scaling and deinterlacing etc) are directly taken from the high end machines like the HT5000. Dual 12v triggers fireable per memory for masking systems. Superb focus resolution that few can get close to, for a real sharp image etc etc. The only reason I dont still have them is because i use some of their big brothers.

Can't comment on the PD model. With the better PJ brands like these two you tend to pay more, the second you power them up you see exactly why.

 

[Drem]

For the money the D80 is a steal. I owned 2 until a few months ago and they are probably the best bang for buck machines I've owned. They produce a stellar image and as with all Sim2's have better VP than anything else out there, all developed in house. Custom aspect ratios per memory per input. Deadly accurate white point adjustment (x and y can be dialed perfect with a Duv=0) for a perfect D65(using a really cool colored CIE diagram) etc etc. It is virtually impossible for even a high end outbouard VP to improve image on these machines. Many of the algorithms (scaling and deinterlacing etc) are directly taken from the high end machines like the HT5000. Dual 12v triggers fireable per memory for masking systems. Superb focus resolution that few can get close to, for a real sharp image etc etc. The only reason I dont still have them is because i use some of their big brothers.

Can't comment on the PD model. With the better PJ brands like these two you tend to pay more, the second you power them up you see exactly why.

Thanks for the input. I hear only good things about the D80 and I might buy it soon. I am however sensitive to noise, what is the noise level like on the D80? I was planning on waiting for the DC4 models but now I'm not so sure anymore. The Samsung SP-A800B doesn't seem to include it and also reliability and build quality is a questionmark with Samsung PJs. I really want quality and reliablity this time around (coming from a Optoma H79 which had been to service three times and had premature bulb failure). Other DC4 like Marantz and Sim2 is too expensive for me. Don't know much about the BenQ W20000. Have you seen it? There is also the InFocus IN82 which on paper seems very good.

 

[rolski]

This won't help you in your decision, but I've been considering a D80 for a couple of months now - upgrading from a D30H.
On Saturday I temporarily lost control of my senses & bought a HT380, but I don't regret it at all - it's an awesome improvement....

 

[Apone]

Thanks for the input. I hear only good things about the D80 and I might buy it soon. I am however sensitive to noise, what is the noise level like on the D80? I was planning on waiting for the DC4 models but now I'm not so sure anymore. The Samsung SP-A800B doesn't seem to include it and also reliability and build quality is a questionmark with Samsung PJs. I really want quality and reliablity this time around (coming from a Optoma H79 which had been to service three times and had premature bulb failure). Other DC4 like Marantz and Sim2 is too expensive for me. Don't know much about the BenQ W20000. Have you seen it? There is also the InFocus IN82 which on paper seems very good.

By 'noise' level on the D80, do you mean fan noise? If so, then the D80 is a hell of a lot quieter than my Sim 300e. Fan noise has continued to go down on each new model i think. Thing to remember about Sim2 is that they only do home cinema projectors and nothing else. If you like to tweak settings etc you will love a Sim2 although you can also set and forget.

On the warranty side, Sim2 give a 3 year warranty i think and excellent service to their dealers and customers. The bulbs are quoted to last 4000/6000 hours depending on model, which is longer than most pj manfacturers.

 

[ShanePJ]

Hi Camelkingsize

We have the ProjectionDesign M20 and can safely say the quality from this unit is quite amazing bettering many 1080p at the same price point so I feel it will be safe to say the ProjectionDesign M25 which hopfully will be with us in November should be outstanding! We are hoping to Demo the ProjectionDesign M25 and the already well established Sim2 D80 and let our customers make their own minds as to which is the better!

Regards. Shane.

 

[coldmachine]

This won't help you in your decision, but I've been considering a D80 for a couple of months now - upgrading from a D30H.
On Saturday I temporarily lost control of my senses & bought a HT380, but I don't regret it at all - it's an awesome improvement....

One of the machines I swapped the D80s for was an HT380.... Big step up especially for the price.

My review and photo here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=884260&highlight=380

 

[Drem]

Thanks for the input. I'm afraid the HT380 is too expensive for me. Right now I am looking at either D80, M25, IN82 or Samsung SP-A800B (depending on price). The M25 does have brilliant color and 5000:1 contrast so on paper it betters the D80 but we'll see. I hope to get a chance to see (and listen to) both D80 and M25 before making a decision. I like a punchy picture with lots of detail, sharpness and color.

 

[camelkingsize]

Hi Camelkingsize

We have the ProjectionDesign M20 and can safely say the quality from this unit is quite amazing bettering many 1080p at the same price point so I feel it will be safe to say the ProjectionDesign M25 which hopfully will be with us in November should be outstanding! We are hoping to Demo the ProjectionDesign M25 and the already well established Sim2 D80 and let our customers make their own minds as to which is the better!

Regards. Shane.

I think I will wait till November to see this projectors side to side. Will I be able to see them at your demo room?

 

[coldmachine]

I just found out yesterday and for me that puts the D80 in favour of the PD Unishape technology seems really great. Also I have my suspicions that the PD might have excessive fan noise since it is extremely small?

having seen pre and post EVO machines back to back, i can assure you the "e" models are a huge jump. At D65 a 160W e model will outperform a 200W machine.

 

[Avi]

having seen pre and post EVO machines back to back, i can assure you the "e" models are a huge jump. At D65 a 160W e model will outperform a 200W machine.

How do they compare in terms of low APL and black level performance ?

AVI

 

[coldmachine]

How do they compare in terms of low APL and black level performance ?

AVI

Low APL detail is way better. Can't give an honest answer about absolute black levels in terms of ftL, but shadow detail is far better due to the unishape action. They are also able to hold a good black when there is very bright images on screen too, without washing the black out. The ANSI is over 700. Having said that, the average room most PJs are used in are unable to deliver more than 100 ANSI anyway.